Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/god?

[Donkey1499]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

I just feel bad for what happens when they die and relize that it's not as they envisioned. At that point it won't matter I guess.

Have you seen life after death? No one knows for sure what happens when we die. No one, with out lying, can say where we go. It's just a belief.

 

[Cloud9]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

I do seem to remember something that was considered to disprove the occilating universe some years ago, but I am not sure where and when I read it. Astronomy/physics is not my big field.

I'd like to read that. I find that difficult to believe that we have the means to disprove it. Hinduism is based on that notion, last I've seen on the science channel is that we have no way to know whether there is enough dark matter to cause the contraction (if there isn't the universe will expand forever and fizzle out and die).

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/E/escher/escher_ascending.jpg.html

Famous picture by Escher. When do you reach to top? That is what I think off when looking at infinity.

I appreciate the pic. I wasn't suggesting that I don't understand in the lay use of infinity. Merely suggesting that when science speaks of the edge of the universe, I wonder what is beyond. One can also look at pi ... 3.141........etc. doesn't end.

The notion that something doesn't begin or end, is difficult to believe, not intellectually difficult to understand, just grasp. Specially for beings that begin and end. Everything else in the universe begins and/or ends... all of nature, stars, etc.

 

[Cremaster77]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

I have to disagree. Religious people are usually more accountable because they have such a fear of going to hell. And of course, kids from a deeply religious household tend to turn out as upstanding citizens.

The concept of hell is an Islamo-Christian concept. Not all religious people feel accountable because of a fear of going to hell. In fact, Christianity teaches the exact opposite of accountability. People do not go to hell because of how they act. They go to hell because they reject Christ as the son of God and the Messiah. Christianity teaches that a serial killer will go to heaven if he accepts Jesus in his life aftewards. It's not about how you lead your life. There is only one criteria for being a Christian and that is believing in Christ. No more, no less. How is that accountability?

 

[Herophant]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

A belief in hell is important, because otherwise people would be subjecting those whom have wronged them to an earthly justice. Some do already, but it is an abberation. If everyone believed that people that have done evil unto them would go unpunished by god, vigilantism would overrun civility and we would all have to watch our backs lest we may have done something to someone who decides he has to seek justice. And of course, ying and yang, you can't have hell without heaven. That would really put civilization in the crapper. In this way, absense of religion is an absence of responsibility. And I know a lot of us already don't believe, but the majority that does believe would turn our order into chaos without the idea of an eternal reward/punishment.

Thats just bulshit propaganda. Less religius western democracies have less murders and other problems.

Here is a few quotes:


“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies”

“Although they are by no means utopias, the populations of secular democracies are clearly able to govern themselves and maintain societal cohesion. Indeed, the data examined in this study demonstrates that only the more secular, pro-evolution democracies have, for the first time in history, come closest to achieving practical “cultures of life” that feature low rates of lethal crime, juvenile-adult mortality, sex related dysfunction, and even abortion. The least theistic secular developed democracies such as Japan, France, and Scandinavia have been most successful in these regards.”

“The non-religious, pro-evolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator. The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted.”

Article at
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

 

[LeftyHenry]

When has there ever been a sign of god, that has been proved unlike the bible which is just wine and crazy stroies with no historical evidence?

I don't think ther's a god because if there was do you think he'd let living human beings like you and me die of starvation, cancer, and AIDS

Religion divides people into factions that kill each other

You don't need to be religious or believing in god to be spiritual.

 

[kal-el]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

A belief in hell is important, because otherwise people would be subjecting those whom have wronged them to an earthly justice. Some do already, but it is an abberation. If everyone believed that people that have done evil unto them would go unpunished by god, vigilantism would overrun civility and we would all have to watch our backs lest we may have done something to someone who decides he has to seek justice. And of course, ying and yang, you can't have hell without heaven. That would really put civilization in the crapper. In this way, absense of religion is an absence of responsibility. And I know a lot of us already don't believe, but the majority that does believe would turn our order into chaos without the idea of an eternal reward/punishment.

IMO, that is our achillees heel, the mere beleif that we must do good in order to aceess a "heaven ", or on the flip side, be cast into an eternal burning in a fictional "hell". Why can satan escape hell, but others can't? And, there goes are supposed "free will". We have no free will, if god already knows where we are going after we die, nothing we can do will change our destination. And, why hasn't god gotten rid of satan already? I mean, he's all-powerful. He's not loving, hence he wouldn't create satan to begin with, and the fact that he didn't rid the earth of him, proves he's not omnipotent, but instead, impotent.:lol:

 

[Donkey1499]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

IMO, that is our achillees heel, the mere beleif that we must do good in order to aceess a "heaven ", or on the flip side, be cast into an eternal burning in a fictional "hell". Why can satan escape hell, but others can't? And, there goes are supposed "free will". We have no free will, if god already knows where we are going after we die, nothing we can do will change our destination. And, why hasn't god gotten rid of satan already? I mean, he's all-powerful. He's not loving, hence he wouldn't create satan to begin with, and the fact that he didn't rid the earth of him, proves he's not omnipotent, but instead, impotent.:lol:

Your questions will be answered all in due time. Just have patience. Death is only but around the corner for us all.

 

[kal-el]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

Your questions will be answered all in due time. Just have patience. Death is only but around the corner for us all.

Yes, some are just embarking on life's journey, some are merely at the finishing line.

 

[Donkey1499]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

Yes, some are just embarking on life's journey, some are merely at the finishing line.

And some would rather be Hippies and throw their lives away. What a damn shame.

 

[tecoyah]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

And some would rather be Hippies and throw their lives away. What a damn shame.

And some you call hippies are more spiritual in their own ways than your blinders of Christ will ever allow you to know.

 

[HU-210]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

How I envy those who judge others. Seeing as how easy these behavioral feat is accomplished, it must reduce one's stress quite a bit.

He's not loving, hence he wouldn't create satan to begin with, and the fact that he didn't rid the earth of him, proves he's not omnipotent, but instead, impotent.

A concept many christians do not agree with is the concept of God as the experimenter. God is all-knowing in this hypothesis in a different sense than the conventional one. He knows a lot, but not everything. Basically, he can be seen as an experimenter of creation. He created man as an experiment, and satan is to test his example. This follows for, per example, the story of Job, where Satan is presented more as a prosecutor of human's evil nature than an evil being. He is the worlds first devil's advocate, in a sense .

This concept however, does not do much strength to the certainty of there being a heaven and hell. God as an experimenter does not need to put us in heaven or hell for the experiment. But than, that's what faith is for.

Your questions will be answered all in due time. Just have patience. Death is only but around the corner for us all.

I have no questions for the grave. I will die complete if I die tomorrow.

Mr U

 

[Inuyasha]

I don't believe in UFOs but I have no problem with those that do. I even like to listen to what they have to say. Maybe it just that some non-believers really don't believe that they are non-believers.

 

[LeftyHenry]

You know I think there has to be UFO's and aliens because there are so many galaxys in our universe that it would be so weird If we were the only planet with life forms on it.

 

[Red_Dave]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

And some would rather be Hippies and throw their lives away. What a damn shame.

Its really quite ironic that you conservative-christian types hate hippies so much when argueably the teachings of jesus have many similarities with hippys ideas [apart from the obvious difference of opion on sex] Theres alot of entheises on getting rid of your possessions, loveing others as yourself, and shareing in both [though its seamingly lost on some christians] So why all the anti-hippy comments?

 

[Thinker]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

A belief in hell is important, because otherwise people would be subjecting those whom have wronged them to an earthly justice. Some do already, but it is an abberation. If everyone believed that people that have done evil unto them would go unpunished by god, vigilantism would overrun civility and we would all have to watch our backs lest we may have done something to someone who decides he has to seek justice.

You state all this as fact, yet you provide no supporting evidence. The truth is
that there is evidence on this subject that is against you:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html
which starts by saying "RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society,
contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide,
according to research published today."

 

[Donkey1499]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

Its really quite ironic that you conservative-christian types hate hippies so much when argueably the teachings of jesus have many similarities with hippys ideas [apart from the obvious difference of opion on sex] Theres alot of entheises on getting rid of your possessions, loveing others as yourself, and shareing in both [though its seamingly lost on some christians] So why all the anti-hippy comments?

Because hippies like illegal drugs. Jesus never took illegal drugs (that we know of).
But some other similarities could be made though. Jesus had long hair, wore sandals (aka Lord Boards), and started a new religion. But they're only similarities. But I still don't like Hippies. They **** me off!

 

[Inuyasha]

I wonder what that bush was that Moses saw burning. I wonder if he was down wind of it. Those commandments must have took a hell of a lot of imagination in those days. Hmmm

 

[Thinker]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

Jesus never took illegal drugs

I suspect it would have been impossible for anyone who actually lived about
2,000 years ago to have taken "illegal" drugs, as the concept is a fairly modern
invention.

 

[Red_Dave]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

Because hippies like illegal drugs. Jesus never took illegal drugs (that we know of).
But some other similarities could be made though. Jesus had long hair, wore sandals (aka Lord Boards), and started a new religion. But they're only similarities. But I still don't like Hippies. They **** me off!

True but theres worse things then takeing illegal drugs that a number of christians do. Im a christian myself and i generally see all the counter-culture stuff you had in the 1960s as a good thing because it centerd on turning away from the materialism promoted by our society. Therefore as a european i find it ususal that these darn concervative christian types opossed them so much on your side of the atlantic. Seams very inline with jesus's teachings actually..

As for your comment about hippys ******* you off, notice the irony in your signature

 

[kal-el]

I wonder what that bush was that Moses saw burning. I wonder if he was down wind of it. Those commandments must have took a hell of a lot of imagination in those days. Hmmm

Yea, from what I understand, there was a strange glow in a bush, so Moses went over to investigate, hence god was behind it, so Moses covered his face. God then told Moses to free the Israelites from Egypt. Hmmmm, smells like a good case of mythology to me.:lol:

 

[LeftyHenry]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

I suspect it would have been impossible for anyone who actually lived about
2,000 years ago to have taken "illegal" drugs, as the concept is a fairly modern
invention.

Well, Jesus along with the people with the people who wrote the bible did drink alot.

How do you think they came up with some of those crazy stories in the bible? lol

 

[LeftyHenry]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

I suspect it would have been impossible for anyone who actually lived about
2,000 years ago to have taken "illegal" drugs, as the concept is a fairly modern
invention.

Well, Jesus along with the people with the people who wrote the bible did drink alot.

How do you think they came up with some of those crazy stories in the bible? lol

 

[Cloud9]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

Many Christians try to rationalize this but it is clear that a true follower of Jesus can neither divorce someone nor marry someone who is divorced.

There is an exception to the rule, however. If spouse commits adultery, divorce is permissible. By the same token, the Bible also says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is in adulterer.

Remember that 80+% of this country is Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which implies that Christians are again practicing selective morality.

How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?

“Whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery” (Matthew 5:32, 19:9 & Luke 16:18).

"...whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her" (Mark 10:11 & Luke 16:18), which applies to women as well (Mark 10:12).


On another note: The Christian attempts to put prayer into schools run directly counter to biblical teachings. Jesus said prayer should be a private affair devoid of public display:

"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room (or closet.) and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..." (Matthew 6:5-6 RSV).

Biblicists violate this on a regular basis and have no intention of correcting their behavior. Christians continuously pray in public, IE: churches, street corners, schools, courts, etc. yet all the while they never stop to think this is in direct violation to the god they pray to.

Of course, we know why this is voluntarily ignored. Public prayer forces the peers of school children to jump on the band wagon and pray. We are all aware that the church is simply a business which employs tactics similar to that of tobacco industries in recruiting consumers.

Get the kids while they are young and vulnerable so that they become donating members of the church when they reach adulthood.

I can't even count how many 'Christians' choose to ignore this one:

Eating pork is forbidden (Deuteronomy 14:8).

Hmm, I’ve never met a Christian who DIDN’T enjoy bacon and eggs.

Truth is that many 'Christians' pick and choose the aspects of the Bible that they want to believe - generally conforming to their preconceived notions of what's permissible.

But for this I fault no one. I for one think religion is a very valuable tool in controlling a populace. If it weren't for the fear of God, anarchy would reign supreme in many Christian based societies.

 

[Employee_of_the_Month]

I dont got no problem with god, but religion on the other hand is a concept that was dealt with by people whether its true or not. For the longest time the wealthyest people were the only ones who were able to really read and write, and study- religion. They taught it to the people for so long it doesnt even matter what it used to say becuase so many of us are believe what is really just a slant, and we dont even know it. Religion became a thnig to justify injustice and slavery and class society, because only ritch folks could read good it became for the wrest of us, the opiate of the masses like they say.

Especially Christianity, which actually has parts of its holy book missing because Kings tried to edit it. Believe that!

 

[kal-el]

Re: Why do Athiests and other non-god believing people have a problem with religion/g

Many Christians try to rationalize this but it is clear that a true follower of Jesus can neither divorce someone nor marry someone who is divorced.

There is an exception to the rule, however. If spouse commits adultery, divorce is permissible. By the same token, the Bible also says that anyone who obtains a divorce and marries another is in adulterer.

Remember that 80+% of this country is Christian yet we have a 50% divorce rate. A majority of divorces are a result of irreconcilable differences, not adultery, which implies that Christians are again practicing selective morality.

How many Christians are working on a second, third or fourth marriage?

“Whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery” (Matthew 5:32, 19:9 & Luke 16:18).

"...whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her" (Mark 10:11 & Luke 16:18), which applies to women as well (Mark 10:12).


On another note: The Christian attempts to put prayer into schools run directly counter to biblical teachings. Jesus said prayer should be a private affair devoid of public display:

"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room (or closet.) and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..." (Matthew 6:5-6 RSV).

Biblicists violate this on a regular basis and have no intention of correcting their behavior. Christians continuously pray in public, IE: churches, street corners, schools, courts, etc. yet all the while they never stop to think this is in direct violation to the god they pray to.

Of course, we know why this is voluntarily ignored. Public prayer forces the peers of school children to jump on the band wagon and pray. We are all aware that the church is simply a business which employs tactics similar to that of tobacco industries in recruiting consumers.

Get the kids while they are young and vulnerable so that they become donating members of the church when they reach adulthood.

I can't even count how many 'Christians' choose to ignore this one:

Eating pork is forbidden (Deuteronomy 14:8).

Hmm, I’ve never met a Christian who DIDN’T enjoy bacon and eggs.

Truth is that many 'Christians' pick and choose the aspects of the Bible that they want to believe - generally conforming to their preconceived notions of what's permissible.

But for this I fault no one. I for one think religion is a very valuable tool in controlling a populace. If it weren't for the fear of God, anarchy would reign supreme in many Christian based societies.

Great post. IMO Christians are indeed hypocritical. They seem to cling to the passages of the Bible that promote their agenda, but you won't hear a peep from them about the bloody parts.

After all, Christians don't kill their disobedient children.

Lev. 20:9

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

Dt.21:18-21

If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hod of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

"God" explicitly states that you cannot make or display graven idols, yet they bear crosses. You could try and explain this by saying he was talking about false idols, but nowhere does he mention this.

Ex.20:4

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or in the earth beneath or in the waters below.

And it seems that Jesus himself said you are not to enter heaven unless you do god's bidding:

Mat.7:21

Not eveyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven.