Why do Anti-abortion advocates ignore statistics.

[tshade]

Where were you and I discussing the RCC? I asked you about an authority that American women are obligated to submit to. You brought up the RCC.

And everything I posted about the RCC is true. The violence, coercion, and misogyny are also astounding.

Those sins were caused by man, not God

 

[tshade]

So is excrement. Again, your point?

yes-----and that is not human either

 

[Lursa]

Those sins were caused by man, not God

Following His "so-called" words in the Bible, right? So then if they followed those wrong, why would we believe that they didnt get His ideas on abortion wrong? God never said it was.

Now, where is my answer? I asked you about an authority that American women are obligated to follow.

 

[tshade]

Following His "so-called" words in the Bible, right? So then if they followed those wrong, why would we believe that they didnt get His ideas on abortion wrong? God never said it was.

Now, where is my answer? I asked you about an authority that American women are obligated to follow.

The greatest authority of all, our God in Heaven

 

[Lursa]

The greatest authority of all, our God in Heaven

Why are you lying? That's a sin...or do you really not understand that Americans dont have to follow any deity?

So apparently you have no argument beyond your beliefs...yet you feel entitled to try and force, by law, your beliefs on women that dont believe the same. God gave us all free will to follow Him and it's not up to you to usurp His Role.

It's not the law of the land, so you are denying God's Will, another sin. He never spoke against abortion...and He certainly could have, right?

Your religious views are futile and an offense to God. He asks us to share His Word, not enforce it. And your disregard for His Children-women's lives, ...all of a life to live and share, not just pumping out a kid, makes Him cry.

 

[tshade]

Why are you lying? That's a sin...or do you really not understand that Americans dont have to follow any deity?

it is a choice. Many are called, few are chosen.

So apparently you have no argument beyond your beliefs...yet you feel entitled to try and force, by law, your beliefs on women that dont believe the same.

that is the way laws often work. I don't believe in half the traffic laws I am subjected to, but

God gave us all free will and it's not up to you to usurp His Role.

never said otherwise

It's not the law of the land,

correct

so you are denying God's Will, another sin.

we must give to Caesar what is Caesar's , true

He never spoke against abortion...and He certainly could have, right?

5th commandment is clear

Jesus' teachings on self-denial, sacrifice, and children makes abortion unthinkable.....

He asks us to share His Word, not enforce it.

correct .. Americans dont have to follow any deity? ...............................correct

So apparently you have no argument beyond your beliefs...

????? should I have arguments beyond my NON-beliefs???

 

[Lursa]

it is a choice. Many are called, few are chosen.

that is the way laws often work. I don't believe in half the traffic laws I am subjected to, but

never said otherwise

correct

we must give to Caesar what is Caesar's , true

5th commandment is clear

Jesus' teachings on self-denial, sacrifice, and children makes abortion unthinkable.....

correct .. Americans dont have to follow any deity? ...............................correct


????? should I have arguments beyond my NON-beliefs???

Yes, your lying is a choice but still a sin. The rest is a waste of typing, it's like you didnt even read my post...but you are indoctrinated to never accept that, right?

Well, then continue to deny God's Will and arrogantly usurp His Authority. Your sins will follow you until you repent them. Again:

Your religious are an offense to God. He asks us to share His Word, not enforce it. And your disregard for His Children-women's lives, ...all of a life to live and share, not just pumping out a kid, makes Him cry.​

 

[weaver2]

Why do anti-choicers always go after the cis woman? Why not the man? Why not encourage him not to have unprotected sex? Or to get a vasectomy?

Interesting, isn't it. There has been very little to no discussion about male partners part in creating unplanned and unwanted pregnancies
* 95% of sexually active women used birth control in the month they got pregnant.
* 21%of women have tubal sterilization. Only 11.5% of males have vasectomies.
*There are 27,000,000 low wage workers. 58% or 15,660,000 of those workers are women. Let's say that 50% or 7,840,000 of these women have health insurance at work so that they can get the pill. ( None cover LARCs.) The other 7,840,000 depend on male use of condoms, the next most effective birth control after LARCs and the pill, to prevent unwanted pregnancy
* 55% of men refuse to use condoms even when they know women are depending on its use.
* There is an 85% chance of pregnancy when no birth control is used
* 38,000 unwanted pregnancies/year are caused by male partners that bully, coerce or threaten women into providing sex.

Using the above statistics it is probable that approximately 50% of all unwanted pregnancies are caused by the male partner.


But we don't talk about that.

 

[weaver2]

How disingenuous of you.
We are talking about the Catholic Church, not the GOP.

The Church was started by Christ. The good they have done is astounding.

The bad is equally astounding.

 

[weaver2]

So, because it is inconvenient for the couple, and to save a buck, they will kill the human life inside her.??????

So, to keep from "endangering the human, we kill it????

oh---how noble

Nothing is more precious than life---yes, even more precious than having sex................................good grief...

I don't care what you believe, that's your private business. But, you and your church have given yourselves permission to invade the private lives of families everywhere with the inane justifications you just posted. You and your religious beliefs are denying the need of families for control over their future, denying their need to make private family decisions, denying services, education, insurance, contraceptives and abortion while claiming you are doing God's work.

When you meddle simply because your God says you have a right to meddle in his Name in lives you apparently know nothing about you do not create life, you create havoc for those already born and alive.

The statistics confirm the havoc. Numbers of doctors have decreased. Services for pregnant women have decreased. Insurance coverage for contraceptives has decreased. Clinics have decreased.
Abortion has increased. Maternal and infant deaths have increased. Infants born with birth defects have increased. Families with children they cannot care for, support and cherish have increased.

And you are calling this good?

 

[tshade]

I don't care what you believe, that's your private business. But, you and your church have given yourselves permission to invade the private lives of families everywhere with the inane justifications you just posted. You and your religious beliefs are denying the need of families for control over their future, denying their need to make private family decisions, denying services, education, insurance, contraceptives and abortion while claiming you are doing God's work.

How am I or the Church doing that????

When you meddle simply because your God says you have a right to meddle in his Name in lives you apparently know nothing about you do not create life, you create havoc for those already born and alive.

The statistics confirm the havoc. Numbers of doctors have decreased. Services for pregnant women have decreased. Insurance coverage for contraceptives has decreased. Clinics have decreased.
Abortion has increased. Maternal and infant deaths have increased. Infants born with birth defects have increased. Families with children they cannot care for, support and cherish have increased.

And you are calling this good?

That all comes from the voter

 

[weaver2]

Science says it is human,

Right a human embryo is human. A human embryo is not a human being it is an embryo.

and the moral law of man says "don't kill it"

No, universal moral law of man does not say do not kill an embryo. Catholic priests say women do not have a choice in the matter of pregnancy. Our God gave you this pregnancy and you must carry it to birthing. If you end the pregnancy you have sinned against our God.

And what actually happens in Catholic families? When a pregnancy threatens the stability of a family they get an abortion.

 

[weaver2]

How am I or the Church doing that????

You by defending and supporting the anti-abortion position. The church by direct cash donations to Congress members that support the creations of laws letting religion invade the lives of all women.

That all comes from the voter

Instigated by religion, in politics and in the White House

 

[Lursa]

You by defending and supporting the anti-abortion position. The church by direct cash donations to Congress members that support the creations of laws letting religion invade the lives of all women.

Instigated by religion.

And it's an egregious sin, denying God's Will. Using their votes for man's law to usurp God's Authority. He gave us free will...man may not arrogantly force belief in Him on others.

 

[Bullseye]

Research clearly indicates that children in families struggling with the stress of instability, insecurity, poverty, abuse and/or emotional issues do not do well as children and their futures' as adults are often worse. Conservatives surely are aware of the statistics since they have been posted several times. In the face of such statistics why isn't banning abortion, insisting on birth and denying access to effective LARCs just plain cruelty to children?

So. . . kill them because they might have a shitty life? Don't those carried through to born face some of the same dangers?

 

[tshade]

Right a human embryo is human. A human embryo is not a human being it is an embryo.

?? It is fully human, the only thing left is growth to the next stage......

No, universal moral law of man does not say do not kill an embryo.

human life---yes

Catholic priests say women do not have a choice in the matter of pregnancy.

false

And what actually happens in Catholic families? When a pregnancy threatens the stability of a family they get an abortion.

????????????? what planet is this???

 

[tshade]

You by defending and supporting the anti-abortion position.

hardly

The church by direct cash donations to Congress members that support the creations of laws letting religion invade the lives of all women.

Name one lawmaker who got cash for that.

 

[CaughtInThe]

We shouldn't call them Anti-Abortion people.

We should call them big government/stick your nose in other people's business busybodies.

 

[Lursa]

So. . . kill them because they might have a shitty life? Don't those carried through to born face some of the same dangers?

Yup and because they'll cause others to have a shitty life, like the parents, siblings, anyone else that they have to sacrifice responsibilities and obligations to. So....yeah, ALL those others over one potential, not actual, individual who suffers nothing.

Only the woman knows the extent of this and her circumstances. Do strangers or the govt know that better than she does?

Why do you place the life of the unborn over all those others? Just to join them in misery? We treat our pets better.

 

[Atreus21]

We've heard that stupid argument already too many times. It was stupid when the church first told you it's silly semantics were a powerful argument against the truth of statistics about children and stress, research, science, the law and even the bible and now 20 years later it is still nothing but twisted semantics.

Perhaps you've heard it too many times because it never gets a straight answer.

 

[Atreus21]

Why not? Why produce a kid unnecessarily if you cant afford it? What about her suffering, maybe the suffering of the kids she already has? Is it your view that "no one else's suffering matters"? BTW, the unborn suffers nothing if it's not born. I dont think you need to lose any sleep over suffering if you respect a woman's choice...she's the one who knows best what that suffering may look like.

Produce? The kid's already produced.

Suffering doesn't justify killing an innocent human being.

Why is it only about the unborn/2 day old? What about the woman?

Because we're not trying to kill the woman.

Because inside the woman, any govt interference trying to protect the unborn harms the woman, removes her right to consent to her own life and its direction, her health, it violates her 4th Amendment right to security of the person, due process, etc.

No citizen has absolute autonomy over their body. Men don't either.

Once born, anyone can care for or protect a baby and the woman's life, and health, rights, and responsibilities and commitments to others are not risked. The govt is obligated to protect women and our rights...it has no such obligation for the unborn. Why should the woman, with her part in society, her involvement with loved ones, her responsibilities to others, be placed at risk for the unborn?

Because her part in society, her involvement with loved ones, and her responsibilities to others don't justify killing someone to maintain.

Who knows better than she what's at stake? Why demand risks to so many others for the unknown quantity of the unborn?

Because the unborn are human beings, with the same right to life as all other human beings.

 

[Lursa]

Produce? The kid's already produced.

It's not. There's an unborn embryo or fetus...why do you feel that you must personify it?

Suffering doesn't justify killing an innocent human being.

Forcing suffering on innocent women when there is a safer medical procedure isnt justified.

Because we're not trying to kill the woman.

And she wasnt trying to get pregnant.

No citizen has absolute autonomy over their body. Men don't either.

No one said they do. But it has to be justified...and you havent done so. Women have rights that the govt is obligated to protect. The unborn dont. Women suffer, the unborn dont. The list is long, legally and morally.

Because her part in society, her involvement with loved ones, and her responsibilities to others don't justify killing someone to maintain.

That's your opinion. It's not necessarily hers, her loved ones, nor those she has those responsibilities to and for.

Because the unborn are human beings, with the same right to life as all other human beings.

Who says? What authority? Not the federal govt and not the Constitution. Dobbs enabled states to allow women to kill their unborn with no due process, which many did/do. Right?

 

[Gordy327]

Those sins were caused by man, not God

God supposedly created man knowing man would sin. God allowed it. The buck stops with god. Of course, sin is just a silly religious concept.

yes-----and that is not human either

It still comes from a human.

The greatest authority of all, our God in Heaven

That's nice. Prove it!

that is the way laws often work. I don't believe in half the traffic laws I am subjected to, but

Incorrect. Laws are based on the Constitution and for the benefit or protection of the public, such as traffic laws.

5th commandment is clear

Jesus' teachings on self-denial, sacrifice, and children makes abortion unthinkable.....

Maybe to you. But to a woman in a situation which makes pregnancy and child rearing unfeasible, she can certainly consider abortion as an option.

correct .. Americans dont have to follow any deity? ...............................correct

Which means no one is obligated to follow any religious doctrine, including those regarding abortion.

????? should I have arguments beyond my NON-beliefs???

Are not many or all of your arguments based on your beliefs?

?? It is fully human, the only thing left is growth to the next stage......

Not quite.

human life---yes

So what? It's still not an actual human being as in a born person.

????????????? what planet is this???

Earth, aka Terra, aka Sol III, 3rd planet from the sun in the Sol system, within the Orion Spur of the Perseus Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy, approximately 26,000 light years (8 kiloparsecs) from the galactic center.

 

[Gordy327]

So. . . kill them because they might have a shitty life?

Why not?

Don't those carried through to born face some of the same dangers?

Probably. Life can be a real bitch.

 

[Gordy327]

Produce? The kid's already produced.

No, it's still in production, like an auto on the assembly line.

Suffering doesn't justify killing an innocent human being.

Says who? By what authority? And who needs to justify anything?

Because we're not trying to kill the woman.

Pregnancy and birth can do that.

No citizen has absolute autonomy over their body. Men don't either.

Sure they do, as long as it doesn't cause harm to another. That's why no one can be compelled to have their body used to support another.

Because her part in society, her involvement with loved ones, and her responsibilities to others don't justify killing someone to maintain.

A woman is not obligated to gestate for anyone or society. Neither does abortion negatively affect society in any way.

Because the unborn are human beings, with the same right to life as all other human beings.

Demonstrably and legally false!