Why do Anti-abortion advocates ignore statistics.

[tshade]

I just wrote reasons that are far beyond inconvenience. If YOU believe earning enough to keep a roof over your head, not losing your job or your apt, avoiding adding another life abused by violence, that is YOUR sad value of YOUR life but most people find safety, responsibilities, working hard and providing as important in life, not "conveniences.'

If you value everything in life so poorly, as mere conveniences, why do you want more lives brought into it?



See above.



That's right...and the woman's life, which you feel entitled to put at risk, is precious as well. As are her loved ones who need her and depend on her. Why do you believe it's acceptable for strangers to demand she put all those others at risk just for the unborn?

I believe in quality of life, not quantity. Your belief considering all that we do in life 'conveniences' devalues us all but I recognize that most people believe their lives, their work, their ability to provide, their loved ones, their responsibilities are of greater value than that.

We've been over this before.
This is not a child.
View attachment 67551507
It is an embryo at 8weeks. It has no nervous system, no brain, no digestive, respiratory, circulatory, systems. It cannot see, hear, or feel. It has no sense of it's existence. At 8 weeks or less 64% of women who know they cannot care for a child have aborted this embryo. There is no justification for interfering in the lives of women, their children, partners, parents and grandparents and forcing all of them into a state of poverty by legally requiring the woman to give birth. You have never given any justification for condemning families to even more stress than they currently are experiencing. Many are left in permanent and deep poverty. Your behavior is saying your religion gives you the right to intrude.

geneticaly it is human

 

[Gordy327]

It is simple. Murder is not the solution.

Abortion is not murder and can be a solution to one who chooses it.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Who says abortion is wrong? Again, that's up to the individual contemplating abortion to decide.

Unless maybe you have little morality and want us to off all those poor souls.

Morality is subjective.

Legally it isn't. I am just reminding people that a vast number of people do consider it murder.

A vast number of people are wrong then!

Is you cannot afford to have a child, do not have sex. Problem solved, and irresponsible people wonder why others are rich a they get jealous.

Or have an abortion. Problem solved.

Stop being irresponsible in life.

Abortion is taking responsibility.

It is not responsible sex if abortion is used as birth control.

Says who? Abortion is the responsible thing if one is not able or willing to be a parent.

I specified "as birth control." Medical and other factors are different, and to kill over money... financial concerns...

What difference does it make?

I will leave this thread, and let all you immoral people have fun.

Good. Your sanctimony is boring.

 

[Gordy327]

geneticaly it is human

So is cancer.

How can it be cruel to children to ban the killing of children???

There are no children in an abortion.

We should both discourage abortion, while at the same time heavily support children and families, unwed moms, etc, etc

Abortion should be encouraged, That way, less support will be needed or required overall. Abortion is just more economically feasible, among other things.

So, because it is inconvenient for the couple, and to save a buck, they will kill the human life inside her.??????

If that is what they choose.

So, to keep from "endangering the human, we kill it????

oh---how noble

Pregnancy by its very nature can endanger one's health.

Nothing is more precious than life---yes, even more precious than having sex................................good grief...

Says who?

 

[tshade]

So is cancer.

wrong------you lose this point hands down

There are no children in an abortion.

they are small humans

Abortion should be encouraged, That way, less support will be needed or required overall. Abortion is just more economically feasible, among other things.

killing of human life should never be encouraged to save money and because we are too cowardly to man-up.

If that is what they choose.

seig heil

Pregnancy by its very nature can endanger one's health.

so is walking down the street

Says who?

moral people

 

[Gordy327]

wrong------you lose this point hands down

A cancer cell does not have human DNA?

they are small humans

They are basically clumps of cells.

killing of human life should never be encouraged to save money and because we are too cowardly to man-up.

Money is a real concern and factor. Ask anyone struggling to make ends meet or in poverty.

seig heil

Droll!

so is walking down the street

Best to stay on the sidewalk then.

moral people

Who decides what is "moral?"

 

[tshade]

A cancer cell does not have human DNA?

sure, but not the genetic material that constitutes being fully human

They are basically clumps of cells.

that are fully human at the early stages

Money is a real concern and factor. Ask anyone struggling to make ends meet or in poverty.

not an excuse to kill

 

[Gordy327]

sure, but not the genetic material that constitutes being fully human

A cancer cell does contain the human genome, like every other cell in the body.

that are fully human at the early stages

No, they are not. A ZEF is not "fully" human. It sounds as if you think a ZEF is just a minaturized neonate?

not an excuse to kill

Depends on who you ask. To the pregnant woman with limited means, it might be a perfect "excuse." Not that it matters.

 

[tshade]

A cancer cell does contain the human genome, like every other cell in the body.

but it won't have the potential to grow into a baby

No, they are not. A ZEF is not "fully" human. It sounds as if you think a ZEF is just a minaturized neonate?

genetically human at a very early stage. Once the egg is fertilized....

Depends on who you ask. To the pregnant woman with limited means, it might be a perfect "excuse." Not that it matters.

you know that is a very lame reason to kill

 

[Lursa]

Yeah, we've heard all the morality argument your church has given you to spout at women they deem immoral. It's nothing more than juvenile semantics and illogical extremes. You don't have a single original thought in your head. The Church has crowded out most of your capacity to think and replaced it with lies about women, evil, immorality and murder.

A lot of conservatives truly do choose to have an authority running their lives and making their choices black and white, and for them. This election shows it. And that "black and white" enables a lot of judgement, sanctimony, and gravely misplaced superiority.

 

[Phys251]

Legally it isn't. I am just reminding people that a vast number of people do consider it murder.

Is you cannot afford to have a child, do not have sex. Problem solved, and irresponsible people wonder why others are rich a they get jealous.

Stop being irresponsible in life.

Why do anti-choicers always go after the cis woman? Why not the man? Why not encourage him not to have unprotected sex? Or to get a vasectomy?

 

[Lursa]

geneticaly it is human

Why does that matter? Biology and science dont recognize any value or rights for any species or genes. Science "observes and records," and science doesnt 'care' who kills who. Right? Yes or no?

 

[Gordy327]

but it won't have the potential to grow into a baby

Potential does not equal actual. But at least you tacitly admit a ZEF is not a baby (neonate).

genetically human at a very early stage. Once the egg is fertilized....

Everyone is genetically human. What's your point? A cancer cell is genetically human. Genetics/biology alone doesn't mean anything, especially where legal applications are concerned. Neither does genetics/biology or science in general determine the morality of abortion or whether it's right or wrong.

you know that is a very lame reason to kill

Again, depends on who you ask. A person's reasons for abortion is their alone and no one else's business or concern. Neither do they need justify themselves to anyone.

 

[tshade]

Why does that matter? Biology and science dont recognize any value or rights for any species or genes. Science "observes and records," and science doesnt 'care' who kills who. Right? Yes or no?

I'm having dinner with Science tonight, so I will ask....


The greatest scientists are probably the most moral.......................Science says it is human, and the moral law of man says "don't kill it"

 

[tshade]

Potential does not equal actual. But at least you tacitly admit a ZEF is not a baby (neonate).

semantics

Everyone is genetically human. What's your point? A cancer cell is genetically human.

a thing from a human, yes

Genetics/biology alone doesn't mean anything, especially where legal applications are concerned. Neither does genetics/biology or science in general determine the morality of abortion or whether it's right or wrong.

well, no

Again, depends on who you ask. A person's reasons for abortion is their alone and no one else's business or concern. Neither do they need justify themselves to anyone.

moral relativism??? no----that don't cut it

 

[Lursa]

I'm having dinner with Science tonight, so I will ask....


The greatest scientists are probably the most moral.......................Science says it is human, and the moral law of man says "don't kill it"

Please quote that "moral law?" One that American women are obligated to submit to?

Then we can discuss the "law" that protects women...our lives, our health, our liberty, our bodies, our futures and you can tell me how it's immoral.

 

[tshade]

Please quote that "moral law?" One that American women are obligated to submit to?

Then we can discuss the "law" that protects women...our lives, our health, our liberty, our bodies, our futures and you can tell me how it's immoral.

all humans are obli to submit to moral law

 

[weaver2]

geneticaly it is human

Who is saying it isn't? Everyone that ever paid attention in HS biology knows humans produce genetically human embryos not genetically zebra embryos.

If your church wants to call a non-sentient human embryos with no self awareness, unable to feel pain, with no independent bodily functions, no brains and unable to live outside of the womb by the same name as a born child that is aware of its surroundings, feels pain, suffers, thinks, and has body functions that allow it to live independently that's fine. You have a right to make up definitions to suit your religious beliefs. The problem is that you and your church are giving money to members of Congress to make and pass laws that :
*make your religious definition of "child" into US legal code;
*give your church the right to make reproductive decisions for all women
*make abortion illegal and punish women and those that help them get abortions (like the neighbor who drives a woman to a clinic)

Just stick to scamming your pregnant teens into giving birth not just once but again and again because although not telling them about birth control is completely unethical it is still legal. The Church paid top dollar to make sure they didn't have to follow federal law that mandates clinics give women detailed information on birth control. It's also the law that PP clinics are required to give women information and telephone numbers of emergency pregnancy clinics but EPCs the reverse is not the law. Your god likes that kind of hypocrisy.

“You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” Anne Lamott: American writer

 

[Lursa]

all humans are obli to submit to moral law

I asked you to quote that moral law and show where it includes the unborn.

 

[tshade]

Who is saying it isn't?

then how is it okay to kil them??

If your church wants to call a non-sentient human embryos with no self awareness, unable to feel pain, with no independent bodily functions, no brains and unable to live outside of the womb by the same name as a born child that is aware of its surroundings, feels pain, suffers, thinks, and has body functions that allow it to live independently that's fine.

You mean like the 35 over-95 year olds in my nearby nursing home???

You have a right to make up definitions to suit your religious beliefs. The problem is that you and your church are giving money to members of Congress to make and pass laws

not my church---just me

Just stick to scamming your pregnant teens into giving birth not just once but again and again because although not telling them about birth control is completely unethical it is still legal.

correct

The Church paid top dollar to make sure they didn't have to follow federal law that mandates clinics give women detailed information on birth control. It's also the law that PP clinics are required to give women information and telephone numbers of emergency pregnancy clinics but EPCs the reverse is not the law. Your god likes that kind of hypocrisy.

“You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” Anne Lamott: American writer

God loves all, we hate

 

[tshade]

I asked you to quote that moral law and show where it includes the unborn.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that since the 1st century the Church has affirmed that every procured abortion is a moral evil; the Catechism states that this position "has not changed and remains unchangeable".

 

[Lursa]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that since the 1st century the Church has affirmed that every procured abortion is a moral evil; the Catechism states that this position "has not changed and remains unchangeable".

Why on earth would I respect the Catholic Church on anything? It still supports marital rape (altho rephrased) and has been a violent, coercive, torturing, greedy, pedophilic, misogynistic organization for centuries.

And as you know, American woman are not obligated to submit to the Catholic Church on anything. Do you have anything else to present?

 

[tshade]

Why on earth would I respect the Catholic Church on anything? It still supports marital rape (altho rephrased) and has been a violent, coercive, torturing, greedy, pedophilic, misogynistic organization for centuries.

How disingenuous of you.
We are talking about the Catholic Church, not the GOP.

The Church was started by Christ. The good they have done is astounding.

 

[Lursa]

How disingenuous of you.
We are talking about the Catholic Church, not the GOP.

The Church was started by Christ. The good they have done is astounding.

Where were you and I discussing the RCC? I asked you about an authority that American women are obligated to submit to. You brought up the RCC.

And everything I posted about the RCC is true. The violence, coercion, and misogyny are also astounding.

 

[Gordy327]

I'm having dinner with Science tonight, so I will ask....


The greatest scientists are probably the most moral.......................Science says it is human, and the moral law of man says "don't kill it"

Science calling something "human" is not a moral call. It's just a classification. No different than calling dogs "canines" or cats "felines."

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that since the 1st century the Church has affirmed that every procured abortion is a moral evil; the Catechism states that this position "has not changed and remains unchangeable".

That only applies to those who may believe that or follow Catholicism. But not to anyone else or the law.

all humans are obli to submit to moral law

By what authority? What is "moral law?" Morality is subjective anyway.

semantics

More like fact.

a thing from a human, yes

So is excrement. Again, your point?

well, no

Actually, yes! Again, Genetics/biology alone doesn't mean anything, especially where legal applications are concerned. Neither does genetics/biology or science in general determine the morality of abortion or whether it's right or wrong.

moral relativism??? no----that don't cut it

Says who and why not? As I also said, morality is subjective.

How disingenuous of you.
We are talking about the Catholic Church, not the GOP.

The Church was started by Christ. The good they have done is astounding.

Since not everyone is Catholic nor obligated to follow Catholic doctrine, your position has no weight, especially from a legal standpoint.

 

[Gordy327]

then how is it okay to kil them??

For starters, the unborn parasitically occupy and fed off another's body. No one can be compelled to have their body used to support another.

You mean like the 35 over-95 year olds in my nearby nursing home???

Some people do not know when it's time to pull the plug.

not my church---just me

Just you! And no one is obligated to accept or conform to you or your wishes.

God loves all, we hate

Not according to the OT he doesn't!