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Why did we win?

Deuce said:
So, literally any Biden supporter is fair game because someone in a different time zone committed vandalism. Got it.

Thanks for proving my point.
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I don't know what you mean by fair game. I am indifferent to whatever happens to progressives whether it be good or bad. I don't go around wishing them ill or success. They are not worthy enough for me to make any emotional investment in their fate.
If Biden dropped dead tomorrow i would neither mourn his loss or celebrate it. I don't care either way.
 
bearpoker said:
Part of the coalition that elected Biden were Republican voters who didn't like Trump. They split their tickets. The R next to a candidates still holds more influence than the Democrats thought.
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Perhaps. If CNN exist polls can be believed, 94% of Democrats voted for Biden, 94% of Republicans for Trump. That's slightly above the historical average of party faithful voting for their candidate. In 2016, 88% of Republicans voted for Trump, 89% of Democrats for Clinton. Which was slightly below the historical average. But you had a much bigger third party vote in 2016.

National Results 2020 President exit polls.

See National Results 2020 President exit polls.
www.cnn.com

The big difference was independents which went for Trump in 2016 by 4 points, 46-42 with 12% voting third party against both major party candidates. This year they went to Biden this year by 13 points 54-41. What I think, it was Republican leaning independents which went for Biden, with a few never Trump Republicans who ended up voting for Republicans down ballot. With votes still being counted, these numbers aren't final, it was Biden 51.0% to Trump's 47.2% of the popular vote. Yet in the house, there's still 5 seats to be decided, The GOP so far has a net gain of 9 seats, flipping 12 Democratic seats to the Democrats flipping 3 GOP seats. The tally so far is Democrats 222, Republicans 208 with 5 still to be decided. Last election 236 Democrats, 199 Republicans. Popular vote wise, Republican congressional candidates 49.0%, Democratic congressional candidates 49.4%.

If the NYT's has it correct, that amounted to 4.7 million voters who voted Biden for president, then republican for congress. That's a lot of ticket splitters. I'd say they wanted to be rid of Trump, but didn't really want the democrats in full power.
 

According to what evidence?

Keeping in mind that of the vulnerable and contested seats, conservative Democrats did worse on average.


What we do know beyond this is that Biden used the same strategy Hillary did which was a proven failure: Orange Man Bad, and say literally nothing else. Even on Pelosi I think your claim is tenuous given that both parties were to blame, and I have yet to see a collection of polls that decisively blames the Dems. Moreover, if you're going to blame the progs for positions they have that are unpopular (despite them not being at the helm, and those policies not featuring at all in Biden's campaign), then you also have to credit them with the positions that are wildly so: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2...dicare-all-fox-news-poll-shows-72-voters-want | https://thehill.com/policy/energy-e...n-new-deal-yielding-gains-despite-gop-attacks | https://news.gallup.com/poll/323582/support-legal-marijuana-inches-new-high.aspx | https://www.vox.com/2020/5/21/21262211/infrastructure-spending-poll-stimulus | https://www.studyinternational.com/news/free-college-tuition/ | https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-ame...rs-believe-billionaires-should-pay-wealth-tax

And I very much doubt most Americans know what the filibuster is to give a damn about it.
 
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NatMorton said:
Biden won because he wasn’t Trump. The Democrats mostly lost because they’re not rational.
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Seven Democrats in the House of Representatives lost their seats because Republican voters are not rational.

The Democratic Party only picked up a net of one seat in the Senate for the same reason: Republican voters are not rational.
 

Again, is it far-left progressive Democrats who are winning in states they never dreamed of? Or is it relative-moderate Democrats who are winning in those states?

Because, again, the far-left Progressive Democrats are winning districts already held by Democrats. To take into account the various far-left progressive Democrats you have noted:

Ilhan Omar took over Minnesota's 5th Congressional District from Keith Ellison. That is a Congressional district held by Democrats since 1963.

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez took over New York's 14th Congressional District by primarying Joe Crowley. That is a Congressional district held by Democrats since 1993.

Rashida Tlaib took over Michigan's 13th Congressional District. That is a Congressional district held by Democrats since 1949.

Massachusetts has had one Republican Senator since 1979, i.e., Scott Brown, who served a less than single term after winning a special election following Ted Kennedy's death in 2010. He was beaten by Elizabeth Warren in 2012.

Vermont has been represented by Patrick Leahy, a Democrat, and continues to be since 1975. Bernie Sanders, an Independent and Democratic Socialist, took over from independent Jim Jeffords who was also a Republican-turned-independent since 2001.

So is it far-left rhetoric that is making gains? Or is it reasonable return-to-normalcy rejection of radical-right centrism that is winning? I would argue the latter over the former. Joe Biden's message of unity won the day.
 
You saying that Biden campaigned on nothing but orange man bad is a total failure, if you spent a moment on his website you would know he set out a full agenda.
You should not need a poll to tell you that Pelosi holding firm at 2.2 trillion against Trumps last offer of 1.8 trillion was a mistake. It might have been a workable plan in September, but if she had given in to Trumps last offer, we could have had relief for the businesses and individuals struggling so badly right now. Some times getting something is better than nothing, McConnell's last floor vote was for 500 billion. Now that Trump is a lame duck, and McConnell won't have to stand for election for 6 more years he has nothing to fear from Trump or Trumpers, he won't pass anywhere near the money Pelosi wants.
 
Deuce, I didn't mean to sound critical, or that I was talking about you personally. The Royal "you."
I've just found it is a tactic that works sometimes when someone is stuck on a nonproductive track.
 
MaryP said:
Deuce, I didn't mean to sound critical, or that I was talking about you personally. The Royal "you."
I've just found it is a tactic that works sometimes when someone is stuck on a nonproductive track.
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And my response applies to anyone trying to "move forward together" with Trumpers. It's straight up impossible for them to move forward with us when they still believe Joe Biden stole the election. You can't find common ground with a guy in his bunker wearing a tinfoil hat yelling about aliens stealing his dreams.

If Trumpers want to move forward with the rest of us, they need to leave the bunker. And the thing with people like that is, they have to leave on their own. You can't talk them out of it, they just see that as further proof of the alien thefts. Evidence doesn't matter to a conspiracy theorist. You can't reason someone out of an opinion that they didn't reason themselves in to.

Asking me to climb into the bunker is ludicrous.
 
Felis Leo said:
Again, is it far-left progressive Democrats who are winning in states they never dreamed of?
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Here we go with this goofiness.

The stated claim was that far left Democrats were making centrist corporate Democrats lose. The loss you are talking about is 15 seats over 2 congressional elections. Ignore that with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 seats, every other seat was regained and not a net new seat, and what you have is the GOP trying to make the best out of a mediocre performance, even more mediocre senate results, and a complete thrashing at the presidential level.

I mean, I get it. You play the role of level headed conservative with a lot to say, and it seems easier to claim it was the far left (you know , Bernie and his gas chambers) who lost this election for Democrats, but that's just not really true - "far left" Demos get reelected over and over again, and corporate Democrats get taken out in the shed.
 
Cardinal said:
We've been saying all year now that we would vote for a bowl of oatmeal over trump. I can only assume from the tone of your post that you thought this was just a figure of speech.
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Exactly! This was a complete repudiation of Mango Unchained. He was going to lose regardless of Covid.
 
This is starting to remind me of Gollum trying so hard to get that ring from Frodo. He lies, he cheats, he sets him up to be eaten by a gigantic spider and then after its all said and done, he falls into the cauldron of lava and turns into liquid Gollum. The world is saved, the dark lord has been beaten, the Orcs are annihilated and Frodo smokes a big fat spliff with Sam. OK, I made that last bit up but it fits the narrative.
 
I gotta say, I am vastly amused by the absolute collapse of dignity on the right.
 

Websites aren't campaign ads; which is how most people are going to be exposed to Biden's messaging, simple as, and those ads were almost without exception exclusively concerned with 'Orange Man Bad' and empty platitudes about 'saving the soul of the country' and the like, so yes, his strategy was Hillary's strategy; she too had a website filled with policies that almost no one visited who wasn't already convinced.

Second, yes, you do need polls to determine primary culpability in the eyes of Americans when both sides are at fault, because it could have just as easily damaged the Republicans as well. Moreover, almost no Americans are looking to the future of lame duck politics, and if McConnell cockblocks relief (assuming of course we don't win the Senate) well, that will just end up being politically toxic for him and his party, now won't it?


This definitely seems to be a case of what you would prefer to be true, than what actually is true.

Hatuey I feel answered you quite well and succinctly but I feel it important to emphasize just how lacking in evidentiary basis your assertions are, especially when more conservative Dems did the worst in this downballot cycle in contested ridings, and when progressive messaging never so much as touched the Biden campaign.
 
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Hamish Howl said:
I gotta say, I am vastly amused by the absolute collapse of dignity on the right.
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I agree and you know what this is really about? Honor. We have no honor. In Japan, there is honor. Here, we have no honor at all.
 
Perotista said:
Perhaps Benghazi was bogus, the e-mails weren't.
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The emails were a nothing scandal. Less than nothing. Trump and his cronies commit more egregious violations before they get out of bed in the morning without anyone batting an eyelash. It's BOGUS. And I'm no Hillary fan.
 
Dans La Lune said:
The emails were a nothing scandal. Less than nothing. Trump and his cronies commit more egregious violations before they get out of bed in the morning without anyone batting an eyelash. It's BOGUS. And I'm no Hillary fan.
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So it's nothing to put top secret sensitive compartmented intelligence special access program messages or emails on a unclassified, unsecure server. I got you. This was a case where politics over rode national security.
 
Nice post, thanks. And I agree that there is no mandate. Of course, Trump didn't have one either but acted as if he did. Biden can't do the same because regardless of what happens in Georgia, Biden will not have a rubber stamp senate.
 
if really think this is over...so cute..Now again I think Biden won...but the Idea that rump can't win is weird......
 
they just failed a lawsuit, so far withouht any merit, but us let us see
 
I see your viewpoint but I think about it differently. Trump spent four years dividing Americans and sowing distrust of elections and every other aspect of our government. Nobody "won" that period, America is just worse for it. However, that harm was done and those views predated the 2020 election -- the distrust was not caused by the election. So after all that happened, an election was held, and we won it.
 
Mason66 said:
The


The whole thread flopped because Biden has not been declared officially the winner of the election.
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No, actually the thread has been quite lively. Sour grapes much?
 
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