Why All Teachers Should not be Armed

[Jerry]

Kids and guns don't mix, obviously.

That's why only adults can have guns, just like tobacco and alcohol.

...or does your local school have 10 y/o board-certified teachers?

 

[avery45]

In an emergency the gun needs to be readily accessible in an instant.

Yes it does. So as soon as an unidentified person is on premise, immediately go to "armory". When I refer to training I don't mean a typical CNC. More S.W.A.T. tactics, like how to moving around corners, working as a team, cover fire, etc.

The police have had guns stolen from them. So the chances of a teacher having them stolen is more probable.

Additional concerns are type of weapon, crossfire, how many guns are in the school and who has access. When the police show up they would like to know who the good guys are.

 

[Jerry]

Yes it does. So as soon as an unidentified person is on premise, immediately go to "armory".

That's not instant. A self defense situation is over in seconds. Even if you had the money to renovate every school in america with an armory, you wouldn't have the time to use it.

The police have had guns stolen from them. So the chances of a teacher having them stolen is more probable.

There's no reason to believe that's true.

Additional concerns are type of weapon,

Sure, you wouldn't want to penetrate a wall, but that's true for any self-defense gun use.

crossfire,

As opposed to one-way fire directed at the children. Cross fire is better because it can stop the whole event.

how many guns are in the school and who has access.

I agree, that is a concern. In a perfect world every adult in on the property who can legally carry a gun, would, but some aren't comfortable with it and don't carry.

When the police show up they would like to know who the good guys are.

That's an easy one: the good guys are the one's seen guarding the children. The good guys point their guns at the threat, while the bad guys point their guns at the children.

 

[Un biased]

The biggest problem for me with guns with the students is that it only takes one teacher to snap and to shoot the students .

 

[Jerry]

The biggest problem for me with guns with the students is that it only takes one teacher to snap and to shoot the students .

Who's talking about guns with students? And if teachers snap like that then there's a larger problem we need to deal with regardless of what is don about armed schools. That teacher could snap and use a bat. Why are there people with temper and self control issues teaching in the first place? I know I wouldn't want someone like that taking my child out on a field trip.

 

[blackjack50]

The biggest problem for me with guns with the students is that it only takes one teacher to snap and to shoot the students .

People don't snap.

 

[Un biased]

Who's talking about guns with students? And if teachers snap like that then there's a larger problem we need to deal with regardless of what is don about armed schools. That teacher could snap and use a bat. Why are there people with temper and self control issues teaching in the first place? I know I wouldn't want someone like that taking my child out on a field trip.

Perhaps I need to explain . Students can fray a Teachers nerves pretty quickly and pretty badly and as I said it only takes one teacher with a gun in his immediate possession to shoot someone . As I said it takes one Teacher to get so mad he/ she shoots a student or several .

 

[Jerry]

Perhaps I need to explain . Students can fray a Teachers nerves pretty quickly and pretty badly and as I said it only takes one teacher with a gun in his immediate possession to shoot someone . As I said it takes one Teacher to get so mad he/ she shoots a student or several .

Sounds like you just don't trust teachers. I don't see what that has to do with guns.

 

[Bodi]

Did you have a negligent discharge?

I learned how to use my trigger finger too...

 

[jaeger19]

But they call themselves conservatives like Cruz, Lee and Paul. And the TRUE conservatives in your party refuse to walk back any of the whacadoos in your party. S. King spoke the mantra and was sacrificed. Many are now saying, "I'm a Republican, but ...".

I'd like to say that we HAVE BEEN and ARE trying to walk back the whackadoos in our party. That's why Santorum and Bachman didn't get the nod in the primary. The problem is that the whackadoos are REALLY whackadoo and they are bankrolled by a few really moneyed interests.

Case in point.. my Senator.. who is a real conservative... has been reelected easily, has a great rating in a very conservative state... and the Tea Party has announced that they are coming for him in the next primary

 

[avery45]

That's not instant. A self defense situation is over in seconds. Even if you had the money to renovate every school in america with an armory, you wouldn't have the time to use it.

There's no reason to believe that's true.


Sure, you wouldn't want to penetrate a wall, but that's true for any self-defense gun use.


As opposed to one-way fire directed at the children. Cross fire is better because it can stop the whole event.


I agree, that is a concern. In a perfect world every adult in on the property who can legally carry a gun, would, but some aren't comfortable with it and don't carry.


That's an easy one: the good guys are the one's seen guarding the children. The good guys point their guns at the threat, while the bad guys point their guns at the children.

Ideally there would be several armories throughout the school. The teachers closest to this armory would be the ones to have access (i.e. training). There would also be more than one gun in the armory. When a suspicious person arrives on campus warning goes out. Teachers will work as a team to either escort students out or move toward the gunfire.

Crossfire is a concern because in an open area like a commons area students may get caught in crossfire. If four teachers open fire on one target from four different directions there may be innocent life lost due to terrified students running between the teachers and their targets. In a panic organized thought is out the door.

As for the police. A scenario like above. Kids running out, police running in. The teachers have the perpetrators pinned down in the commons area. Police come in. Who are the good guys? Trench coats are not always the primary identifier.

 

[jaeger19]

Kids and guns don't mix, obviously.

I don't know.. my 10 year old and 12 year old did pretty well with theirs this weekend.

 

[jaeger19]

Ideally there would be several armories throughout the school. The teachers closest to this armory would be the ones to have access (i.e. training). There would also be more than one gun in the armory. When a suspicious person arrives on campus warning goes out. Teachers will work as a team to either escort students out or move toward the gunfire.

Crossfire is a concern because in an open area like a commons area students may get caught in crossfire. If four teachers open fire on one target from four different directions there may be innocent life lost due to terrified students running between the teachers and their targets. In a panic organized thought is out the door.

As for the police. A scenario like above. Kids running out, police running in. The teachers have the perpetrators pinned down in the commons area. Police come in. Who are the good guys? Trench coats are not always the primary identifier.

Quite frankly.. an armory is a bad idea. Number one is the fact that a weapon under the positive control of a responsible adult is better than a weapon hopefully secured somewhere.
Number two is the fact that a shooter walking into a school leaves little time to get to an "armory" arm yourself and then go find the intruder. If there is that much time available, the better thing would be to get more students out.

the point of having teachers armed is not so that they can be a police force. Its so that in that instant when an armed individual strolls into their classroom and starts shooting.. they have something other than a sharpened pencil to defend themselves and their kids.

 

[Linc]

I'd like to say that we HAVE BEEN and ARE trying to walk back the whackadoos in our party. That's why Santorum and Bachman didn't get the nod in the primary. The problem is that the whackadoos are REALLY whackadoo and they are bankrolled by a few really moneyed interests.

Case in point.. my Senator.. who is a real conservative... has been reelected easily, has a great rating in a very conservative state... and the Tea Party has announced that they are coming for him in the next primary

In my state of IL, Republican Senator Kirk, aka as a RINO, took Obama's seat in 2010 as Dems imploded and should win again in 2016. Conservative Repubs I respect like Lamar Alexander must simply look over their shoulder for 6 years and be more visible back home.

 

[TiredOfLife]

I don't know.. my 10 year old and 12 year old did pretty well with theirs this weekend.

The family that gun plays together. Well, you get the rest.

 

[jaeger19]

In my state of IL, Republican Senator Kirk, aka as a RINO, took Obama's seat in 2010 as Dems imploded and should win again in 2016. Conservative Repubs I respect like Lamar Alexander must simply look over their shoulder for 6 years and be more visible back home.

unfortunately.. I think that the Tea Party has got it figured out. Instead of going after your state representatives.. which means a democrat wins... their goal is to go after traditional republican strongholds and push them over the edge into whackadoo territory. That way... they can play obstructionist for another 4 years. At least that's what I figure... or they could just be a bunch of real whackadoos and are not bound by logic or sense. :shock:

 

[Jerry]

Ideally there would be several armories throughout the school. The teachers closest to this armory would be the ones to have access (i.e. training). There would also be more than one gun in the armory. When a suspicious person arrives on campus warning goes out. Teachers will work as a team to either escort students out or move toward the gunfire.

Crossfire is a concern because in an open area like a commons area students may get caught in crossfire. If four teachers open fire on one target from four different directions there may be innocent life lost due to terrified students running between the teachers and their targets. In a panic organized thought is out the door.

As for the police. A scenario like above. Kids running out, police running in. The teachers have the perpetrators pinned down in the commons area. Police come in. Who are the good guys? Trench coats are not always the primary identifier.

It's better to have safe-rooms than armories. When it to gun presence, it's best for the user to have it on their person. That's why cops keep their personal weapon on them.

 

[avery45]

Quite frankly.. an armory is a bad idea. Number one is the fact that a weapon under the positive control of a responsible adult is better than a weapon hopefully secured somewhere.
Number two is the fact that a shooter walking into a school leaves little time to get to an "armory" arm yourself and then go find the intruder. If there is that much time available, the better thing would be to get more students out.

the point of having teachers armed is not so that they can be a police force. Its so that in that instant when an armed individual strolls into their classroom and starts shooting.. they have something other than a sharpened pencil to defend themselves and their kids.

Most schools are only accessible through one entrance. The other exits only open outward and cannot come in. There would be multiple armories through out the school. Teachers closest to the armory or lockbox would have access. That's why when a suspicious person is seen either in the parking lot or in the building, the teachers would immediately secure the gun.

 

[avery45]

It's better to have safe-rooms than armories. When it to gun presence, it's best for the user to have it on their person. That's why cops keep their personal weapon on them.

In an ideal world it would be. But in an ideal world we wouldn't have to worry about this. If safe rooms were possible then make every classroom a safe room. I would like to see desk top be bulletproof. How may teachers aren't reasonable? Not many but there are stories of teachers having inappropriate relations with students. And we hope these teachers use better judgement when securing their gun. The police have theri guns on them but they also have vast amount more training. Teachers want to teach not be police. Unfortunately our society is slowly merging the two.

 

[jaeger19]

Most schools are only accessible through one entrance. The other exits only open outward and cannot come in. There would be multiple armories through out the school. Teachers closest to the armory or lockbox would have access. That's why when a suspicious person is seen either in the parking lot or in the building, the teachers would immediately secure the gun.

With all due respect.. most schools have ground level windows. Most schools have doors that open outwards and all one has to do is go through the door when students are going out.
Second... what is a "suspicious" person look like? there is no way that teachers are going to be on the lookout for "suspicious" people in the parking lot.

Quite frankly, anyone wanting to gain access is going to act anything BUT suspicious. and who is going to "be near the lockboxes"...

Do you realize how much teachers in elementary schools move around escorting kids? Playground, lunch, band, etc etc. ... teachers are moving all around, and their may be no designated teachers even around a "armory" when things go down.

 

[Jerry]

In an ideal world it would be. But in an ideal world we wouldn't have to worry about this. If safe rooms were possible then make every classroom a safe room. I would like to see desk top be bulletproof. How may teachers aren't reasonable? Not many but there are stories of teachers having inappropriate relations with students. And we hope these teachers use better judgement when securing their gun. The police have theri guns on them but they also have vast amount more training. Teachers want to teach not be police. Unfortunately our society is slowly merging the two.

Here in SD, our armed teachers have the exact same gun training as our police. Its the same firearms program taught by the same police instructors at the same facility our police use. Its not just identical, its the exact same program.

 

[avery45]

Here in SD, our armed teachers have the exact same gun training as our police. Its the same firearms program taught by the same police instructors at the same facility our police use. Its not just identical, its the exact same program.

That's a very good start. Some districts allow teachers to carry without the training.