Who won the first debate?

[Robertinfremont]

People like you are just as much the problem. You get caught up believing media lies.

People like Biden are the problem. And his support for Antifa is a major problem as his support for BLM that the black leaders tell us harms them the the most. Biden ios the enemy of blacks all over America.

Noted and dismissed

Noted and dismissed from the forum.

 

[vegas giants]

People like Biden are the problem. And his support for Antifa is a major problem as his support for BLM that the black leaders tell us harms them the the most. Biden ios the enemy of blacks all over America.

Noted and dismissed from the forum.

Buh bye

 

[southwest88]

Most of you said Biden was going to win. Lots of interruptions, mainly by Trump. Wallace did a poor job of moderating.

Oh. It's not Last man standing, then?

 

[Overitall]

Fascism is a well known philosophy of the Left wing and opposed by the right wing. Capitalism only means one uses fair trade with other citizens who cling to fair trade as a mark of freedom.

The discussion of fascism has been short circuited by those claiming ignorance on the part of those wishing to engage them. I consider myself in good company with the likes of George Orwell and Robert Paxton. Words over time take on a different flavor and in this case I think the Democrats/liberals have cornered the market on it.

Like in the day when segregation was strictly the domain of Democrats they’ve managed to change the meaning of words to accuse the other side of being guilty of what they themselves are guilty of.

 

[Montgomery]

As the US turns to fascism, the rest of the world is prepared to weather the storm. Many small countries will abandon the US as their protector and arm themselves with nuclear weapons of their own. Or, small countries will just turn away from America and look to the world's other nuclear powers to protect themselves from the fascist scourge the US is coming to represent.

 

[pamak]

The discussion of fascism has been short circuited by those claiming ignorance on the part of those wishing to engage them. I consider myself in good company with the likes of George Orwell and Robert Paxton. Words over time take on a different flavor and in this case I think the Democrats/liberals have cornered the market on it.

Like in the day when segregation was strictly the domain of Democrats they’ve managed to change the meaning of words to accuse the other side of being guilty of what they themselves are guilty of.

Ohh words do change meaning over time. Even simple words like "men" change meaning. At some point, it included only white rich men and not blacks.

And parties do change their base over time. This is why today you see southern republicans honoring the confederate flag and not Dixiecrats.

And for people like George Orwell, he certainly criticized the Soviet state, and there is no doubt that the state has been used by leftists to promote their goals, but these goals are fundamnetally different from the goals that fascists pursue when they use the state.

 

[Overitall]

Ohh words do change meaning over time. Even simple words like "men" change meaning. At some point, it included only white rich men and not blacks.

And parties do change their base over time. This is why today you see southern republicans honoring the confederate flag and not Dixiecrats.

And for people like George Orwell, he certainly criticized the Soviet state, and there is no doubt that the state has been used by leftists to promote their goals, but these goals are fundamnetally different from the goals that fascists pursue when they use the state.

Like in mandating Americans to purchase a health care plan or face a tax penalty?

 

[pamak]

Like in mandating Americans to purchase a health care plan or face a tax penalty?

That was constitutional and was decided in the SCOTUS with a majority of conservative judges.

You have confused freedom with the idea of being free to be a freeloader and put your healthcare cost burden on the shoulders of the public due to choosing to not have heath insurance to cover the high cost of serious cases . You cannot do that nomatter if the risk is about health or about driving a car.

 

[Overitall]

That was constitutional and was decided in the SCOTUS with a majority of conservative judges.

You have confused freedom with the idea of being free to be freeloader and put healthcare cost burden on the shoulders of the public due to choosing to not have heath insurance. You cannot do that nomatter if the risk is about health or about driving a car.

Yes it certainly was declared unconstitutional. But you would think a Constitutional scholar like Obama would have known that. Yet that didn’t matter to him. The goal was to become a dictator mandating compliance.

 

[pamak]

Yes it certainly was declared unconstitutional. But you would think a Constitutional scholar like Obama would have known that. Yet that didn’t matter to him. The goal was to become a dictator mandating compliance.

You are wrong that the individual mandate was declared unconstitutional. In short, you are confused about the whole litigation process.

NATIONAL FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS v. SEBELIUS

www.law.cornell.edu

SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES

...


Today we resolve constitutional challenges to two provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010: the individual mandate, which requires individuals to purchase a health insurance policy providing a minimum level of coverage; and the Medicaid expansion, which gives funds to the States on the condition that they provide specified health care to all citizens whose income falls below a certain threshold. We do not consider whether the Act embodies sound policies. That judgment is entrusted to the Nation’s elected leaders. We ask only whether Congress has the power under the Constitution to enact the challenged provisions.
...

The Government asks us to interpret the mandate as imposing a tax, if it would otherwise violate the Constitution. Granting the Act the full measure of deference owed to federal statutes, it can be so read, for the reasons set forth below.

So yes, the government could lay such tax according to the SCOTUS.

 

[calamity]

Yes it certainly was declared unconstitutional. But you would think a Constitutional scholar like Obama would have known that. Yet that didn’t matter to him. The goal was to become a dictator mandating compliance.

False. See this:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

You're welcome.

 

[Overitall]

False. See this:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf

You're welcome.

Thanks Cal. You and I sure like to play poker.

Court strikes down Obamacare's individual mandate as unconstitutional

The Trump administration backed an effort by Republican attorneys general to invalidate the Affordable Care Act.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[pamak]

Thanks Cal. You and I sure like to play poker.

Court strikes down Obamacare's individual mandate as unconstitutional

The Trump administration backed an effort by Republican attorneys general to invalidate the Affordable Care Act.

www.nbcnews.com

You are confused about the argument that was made...

From your link

The appeals court agreed with a Texas trial judge who first heard the lawsuit. He ruled that because the tax was eliminated, the law could no longer be saved as a use of Congress' taxing power.

Or in other words, the argument of the Obamacare being unconstitutional is based on eliminatng the tax (indivdual madate). The original Obamacare with the tax mandate as it was set is still constitutional!

 

[Overitall]

You are confused about the argument that was made...

From your link

The appeals court agreed with a Texas trial judge who first heard the lawsuit. He ruled that because the tax was eliminated, the law could no longer be saved as a use of Congress' taxing power.

Or in other words, the argument of the Obamacare being unconstitutional is based on eliminatng the tax (indivdual madate). The original Obamacare with the tax mandate as it was set is still constitutional!

That’s the genius of the Democrats power grab. They couched it in the tax language. It’s the only way they knew they could slip it by us. Repealing (or zeroing out) the tax penalty made it unconstitutional. The point was and remains that this amounted to a form of dictatorship. Requiring a purchase of something or facing a penalty fits the bill. Shroud it under legalistic gamesmanship doesn’t hide that fact. In fact it highlights the point.

 

[pamak]

That’s the genius of the Democrats power grab. They couched it in the tax language. It’s the only way they knew they could slip it by us. Repealing (or zeroing out) the tax penalty made it unconstitutional. The point was and remains that this amounted to a form of dictatorship. Requiring a purchase of something or facing a penalty fits the bill. Shroud it under legalistic gamesmanship doesn’t hide that fact. In fact it highlights the point.

Again, the SCOTUS which let the tax stand was controlled by conservatives.

And no, you do not know how the SCOTUS will rule the case after the republicans under Trump repealed (or zeroed out) the tax penalty. But in any case, the point stands that there is a recent precedent which says that the individual madate is not unconstitutional and at any point, any adminisstration can reimpose it in any future healthcare-related law with the approval of the SCOTUS.

 

[mrdeltoid]

Most of you said Biden was going to win. Lots of interruptions, mainly by Trump. Wallace did a poor job of moderating.

If one would read the transcript, I would say Trump won. As I watched it, I thought Biden won, until I read the transcript. I think Trump didn't want to allow Biden to recite a false narrative that he obviously memorized.

 

[Overitall]

Again, the SCOTUS which let the tax stand was controlled by conservatives.

And no, you do not know how the SCOTUS will rule the case after the republicans under Trump repealed (or zeroed out) the tax penalty. But in any case, the point stands that there is a recent precedent which says that the individual madate is not unconstitutional and at any point, any adminisstration can reimpose it in any future healthcare-related law with the approval of the SCOTUS.

That’s the way of the Court. That’s the way of Congress. Conservatives know a tax is within the power of Congress. But imposing a tax as coercion to require a purchase is in the vein of using the state to control the govern.

 

[pamak]

That’s the way of the Court. That’s the way of Congress. Conservatives know a tax is within the power of Congress. But imposing a tax as coercion to require a purchase is in the vein of using the state to control the govern.

The majority of conservatives ruled thatbthe government can impose a tax as coercion to require a compenation for someone's personal irresponsibility of taking risks whose cost is transfered to the public when that risk becomes an actual serious sickness and the person finds himself uninsure and unable to cover the cost.

Funny how the conservatives who are all about "personal responsibility" argue that they should have the freedom to risk becoming "healthcare-queens" and transfer the cost their incur to the public when they become seriously ill while they are uninsured

 

[mrdeltoid]

Trump made a complete ass of himself. He wouldn't say whether he would concede, he refused to disparage white supremacy.

Completely lacking in shame, obesely immoral - Anderson Cooper.

A complete shit show - Dana Bash

Trump is a disaster, a complete pile of garbage.

The question was based on a false premise. Trump has denounced white supremacy of any stripe many times, yet the lie has been told over and over.

"Trump said on August 15, 2017: "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists—because they should be condemned totally."



"ABC News fact-checked Biden, and noted — commendably — that Trump condemned white supremacists after the Charlottesville riots of August 2017, which Biden has also lied about, as well as on other occasions:

Two days after violent clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 — after first equating violence from white supremacists with those protesting — Trump said, “Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups.”

A month later, the president signed a congressional resolution condemning white supremacy.

In 2019, following shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, Trump said, “In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy. ”

“These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America. Hatred warps the mind, ravages the heart, and devours the soul,” he added"

 

[pamak]

The question was based on a false premise. Trump has denounced white supremacy of any stripe many times, yet the lie has been told over and over.

"Trump said on August 15, 2017: "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists—because they should be condemned totally."



"ABC News fact-checked Biden, and noted — commendably — that Trump condemned white supremacists after the Charlottesville riots of August 2017, which Biden has also lied about, as well as on other occasions:

Two days after violent clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 — after first equating violence from white supremacists with those protesting — Trump said, “Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups.”

A month later, the president signed a congressional resolution condemning white supremacy.

In 2019, following shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, Trump said, “In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy. ”

“These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America. Hatred warps the mind, ravages the heart, and devours the soul,” he added"

Actually, you misrepresent what Trump actually did on August 15, 2017

He denounced white supremacy and neonazi in one point but at the same time not only he did not denounce the white supremacists and neonazis who participated in the night torch parade chanting nazi slogans like "Blood and Soil" but he SPECIFICALLY called these protesters as being mostly "good people"

Agan from the White House transcript!

Remarks by President Trump on Infrastructure | The White House

Trump Tower New York, New York 3:58 P.M. EDT THE PRESIDENT: Hello, everybody. Great to be back in New York with all of our friends, and some great friend

www.whitehouse.gov

Remarks by President Trump on Infrastructure
INFRASTRUCTURE & TECHNOLOGY

Issued on: August 15, 2017

...

Q Who are the good people?

Q Sir, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just don’t understand what you were saying.

THE PRESIDENT: No, no. There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people — neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.

 

[justabubba]

Nazis in the USA are not a problem at all. We have problems with the Antifa and BLM but Nazis themselves are not a true danger to our country. Biden is a major problem as well.

you must have missed this three days ago:

Extremists Pose a Violent Threat, FBI and DHS Officials Say
Christopher Wray, Ken Cuccinelli warned a Senate committee of white supremacists, anarchists and militia-style groups

Extremists Pose a Violent Threat, FBI and DHS Officials Say

The officials raised concerns at a Senate hearing Thursday about the threats posed by extremists across the ideological spectrum.

www.wsj.com

 

[justabubba]

Antifa is well known for fascist tactics.

that post indicates you have no understanding what antifa stands for

 

[Robertinfremont]

The question was based on a false premise. Trump has denounced white supremacy of any stripe many times, yet the lie has been told over and over.

"Trump said on August 15, 2017: "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists—because they should be condemned totally."



"ABC News fact-checked Biden, and noted — commendably — that Trump condemned white supremacists after the Charlottesville riots of August 2017, which Biden has also lied about, as well as on other occasions:

Two days after violent clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 — after first equating violence from white supremacists with those protesting — Trump said, “Racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups.”

A month later, the president signed a congressional resolution condemning white supremacy.

In 2019, following shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, Trump said, “In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy. ”

“These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America. Hatred warps the mind, ravages the heart, and devours the soul,” he added"

Democrats have a profound speciality for loving lies and excusing the old man Biden for his lies.

I do not need to address their lies given they stand up for themselves and will not prevent Trump from victory on Nov 3 and serving a second term as president.

 

[Robertinfremont]

that post indicates you have no understanding what antifa stands for

Antifa lies as much as does Black lives Matter. Both groups are actually terrorist groups supported by Democrats and that will kill Democrats chances and Trump remains as our President.

 

[vegas giants]

that post indicates you have no understanding what antifa stands for

He gets a easily confused