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Who here has the Balls, the Honesty, the Strength of Character to...

Occam's Razor

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Who here has the balls, the honesty, the strength of character to be skeptical and critical of their own party's faults, flaws and mistakes?

This is one of the greatest metrics of integrity, morality and trustworthiness. Absent this, we are lowered to grade school, childish finger pointing, blind self denial, and clique mentality.

I was raised in a traditionally conservative home and taught that your own house needs to be in order before criticizing your neighbors house. The illusion of an ordered house, or denial of disorder is not honest or of strong character and invites tyranny of your neighbor, or their tyranny onto you.

So who here has the balls to call out the corruption and incompetence within their own party?

I wonder how many we can put on a list...
 

WCH

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There's more than one party?? Who knew?

At this point in time and judging by the corruption you describe, we as a people, need to raise our voices in unison.

Maybe not going 'Egypt' on their asses but, something close.
 

Lord of Planar

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Who here has the balls, the honesty, the strength of character to be skeptical and critical of their own party's faults, flaws and mistakes?
One advantage to not belonging to a party. Isn't it...
 

DaveFagan

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Who here has the balls, the honesty, the strength of character to be skeptical and critical of their own party's faults, flaws and mistakes?

This is one of the greatest metrics of integrity, morality and trustworthiness. Absent this, we are lowered to grade school, childish finger pointing, blind self denial, and clique mentality.

I was raised in a traditionally conservative home and taught that your own house needs to be in order before criticizing your neighbors house. The illusion of an ordered house, or denial of disorder is not honest or of strong character and invites tyranny of your neighbor, or their tyranny onto you.

So who here has the balls to call out the corruption and incompetence within their own party?

I wonder how many we can put on a list...

I don't want to sound like I am coopting the quality character traits described because I am not. I'm a Green because I see Global Warming as the greatest threat to my children and grand children. The Greens are great people although ineffectual, weak, poorly organized, marginal, and underfunded. The Green vote is a wasted vote, nevertheless, I vote Green 90% of the time. Notwithstanding the shortcomings, I am proud to be a Green. It is the only party that attempts to harmonize the people and the planet. If the Party suddenly had big money, would it be the same or would the cockroaches that gobble the money infest the organization? I like to look at Germany and its sudden change to Solar Power as having been caused/influenced by the Greens. I see the Greens anti corporate agenda as truly important, but don't accept that it means to bless socialism, but more to promote regulation to give the power back to the people. The Green Party draws more overt flakes or perhaps it seems that way because there are so few Greens that the flakes show up more flagrantly. I don't mean the flakes are bad people, just naïve as a general rule. One swallows the turds and proceeds as that overused buzzword expression "going forward." That really means that they hope they have not taken two steps backward.
 

Occam's Razor

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There's more than one party?? Who knew?

At this point in time and judging by the corruption you describe, we as a people, need to raise our voices in unison.

Maybe not going 'Egypt' on their asses but, something close.
Well said.
 

MaggieD

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Who here has the balls, the honesty, the strength of character to be skeptical and critical of their own party's faults, flaws and mistakes?

This is one of the greatest metrics of integrity, morality and trustworthiness. Absent this, we are lowered to grade school, childish finger pointing, blind self denial, and clique mentality.

I was raised in a traditionally conservative home and taught that your own house needs to be in order before criticizing your neighbors house. The illusion of an ordered house, or denial of disorder is not honest or of strong character and invites tyranny of your neighbor, or their tyranny onto you.

So who here has the balls to call out the corruption and incompetence within their own party?

I wonder how many we can put on a list...
Well, anyone who says they agree with everything their preferred party does is lying, in my opinion. And we see a lot of that here. Ha! The Republican Party, as my example, has done much that I find embarrassing and not in the best interests of our country. I just think the Democrats do it more often. ;)
 

Occam's Razor

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Well, anyone who says they agree with everything their preferred party does is lying, in my opinion. And we see a lot of that here. Ha! The Republican Party, as my example, has done much that I find embarrassing and not in the best interests of our country. I just think the Democrats do it more often. ;)
I'm certain the Dems hold the opposite view, and likely for the same reasons.

Okay, frequency aside... In which arena do you think you could have the most constructive impact on? I just don't see anyone taking any steps to ensure their party doesn't embarrass them. Nothing proactive. I see after the fact reactions and often those reactions are pathetic justifications for behavior we otherwise wouldn't accept.
 

MaggieD

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I'm certain the Dems hold the opposite view, and likely for the same reasons.

Okay, frequency aside... In which arena do you think you could have the most constructive impact on? I just don't see anyone taking any steps to ensure their party doesn't embarrass them. Nothing proactive. I see after the fact reactions and often those reactions are pathetic justifications for behavior we otherwise wouldn't accept.
What's the ONLY way an individual can have an effect on their party? At the ballot box. With their wallet.

I used to be a great fan of "Let's vote the bums out." I thought that by our two major parties seeing votes against incumbants grow to a larger percentage of votes cast that they would realize they were out of touch. But, unfortunately, we can't organize voters to take that step.
 

ChezC3

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Who here has the balls, the honesty, the strength of character to be skeptical and critical of their own party's faults, flaws and mistakes?

This is one of the greatest metrics of integrity, morality and trustworthiness. Absent this, we are lowered to grade school, childish finger pointing, blind self denial, and clique mentality.

I was raised in a traditionally conservative home and taught that your own house needs to be in order before criticizing your neighbors house. The illusion of an ordered house, or denial of disorder is not honest or of strong character and invites tyranny of your neighbor, or their tyranny onto you.

So who here has the balls to call out the corruption and incompetence within their own party?

I wonder how many we can put on a list...
I spent the last 4 years blasting the GOP almost exclusively. I still blast them but now I throw the Dems back in because it gives the wrong impression if I don't. I left the GOP in 08 and haven't voted for them since. That BS they pulled with Ron Paul at the convention still makes me so damned mad, but you know I'm a pragmatist. I voted 3rd party since then but I know I've got a better chance seeing Moses and Jesus shooting dice on the corner than I do of seeing a 3rd party candidate get elected to higher office. I will NEVER vote Dem again. (to my everlasting shame I only voted for 1, Obama, which was more a vote against McCain, and that was 1 too many as far as I'm concerned.) Before all this I was a straight ticket Republican. Won't do that again either. Unfortunately the only real way to get anywhere is to find where you align and if you've got the gumption get involved with the party of your choice, Dem or GOP, mine being the latter and try to correct the mistakes in thinking and call out their BS where you can. It's easy to get involved here in Chicago, there's like, 3 GOPers in the whole damn city, but you know, the only way to make a difference is to get active. It might not get you anywhere but it definitely won't if you don't get off your duff and try.

Die Neocon Die is the motto...and it is the only way the GOP is going to get anywhere.
 

ecofarm

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I voted 3rd party since then but I know I've got a better chance seeing Moses and Jesus shooting dice on the corner than I do of seeing a 3rd party candidate get elected to higher office.
With 3% of the vote (and plenty enough to cost FL), Greens changed the dem's political landscape and sent Gore off the deep end.
 
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Well, I have done this before several times, so you could just look way back at my posting history, but that might take forever so I'll just give you the cliff notes.

The things that suck about Democrats:
-let money get lost, wasted, or stolen in big government programs they often support
-can be hypocritical on many issues depending who is in the White House at any given time - federal wiretapping for instance
-don't care about reducing the deficit unless they can maintain entitlement programs
-won't stand up for true liberal ideas if they've been branded "extremist" such as universal health care, which is not extreme, lobbyists have just painted it that way
-Not about any party platform, but most democrats I know who feel strongly about politics refuse to listen to anything the other side says. I think this is true for both parties but I won't excuse one just because the other does it, too

Those would be the biggest complaints I have about Democrats. I don't think that either side will get better if the 2 party system is maintained, because they have to be so "clearly different" or the more charismatic candidate will automatically win every time. It's a dumb system and I hate it.
 

Occam's Razor

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What's the ONLY way an individual can have an effect on their party? At the ballot box. With their wallet.

I used to be a great fan of "Let's vote the bums out." I thought that by our two major parties seeing votes against incumbants grow to a larger percentage of votes cast that they would realize they were out of touch. But, unfortunately, we can't organize voters to take that step.
Vote the bums out just allows other bums to get in. Maybe there should be a "none of the above" no confidence vote in primaries and caucuses forcing the party leaders to raise the bar on beyond rhetoric, ambition and connections and focus on character.
 

WCH

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Status Quo....once more.

Now we know why only about 1/3 of the country was in favor of our seperation from the British.

complacancy laziness and the uninformed rule the day.
 

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Being a party of one, I certainly have the neuticles to call myself out for any and all of my flaws, corruption and incompetence, should I ever find it. To date, I haven't. But I'm ever vigilant. That's strength of character, right there.
 

ChezC3

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With 3% of the vote (and plenty enough to cost FL), Greens changed the dem's political landscape and sent Gore off the deep end.
and it took a legend to get that...

There aren't too many Ralph Nader's anymore...
 

fmw

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Politics does seem to motivate people to act like fourth graders.
 

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All of the parties are f'd up. Libertarians lack any sort of unity. Republicans are corporate shills who insist on applying free market principles to a not free market ONLY when it suits them and their beneficiaries. Democrats are corporate shills who insist on applying socialist principles to a not socialized market only when it suits them and their beneficiaries to do so.

Green Party is comprised of former bush hippies who are more concerned with auto exhaust than the mercury in the stream out back.
 

ecofarm

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and it took a legend to get that...

There aren't too many Ralph Nader's anymore...
I don't see what Nader had to do with it. It's not like anyone thought he would win. Greens just decided that the dems were ignoring us, and we made a statement. Most Greens I knew didn't even like Nader, they said he was a big asshole personally, treated his people like crap. But we were sick of being ignored by the dems. What had Clinton done? Nothing; signed a couple Natl Monuments. I seems he was not willing to risk his precious (bubble) economy and enact legit measures.
 
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ChezC3

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I don't see what Nader had to do with it. It's not like anyone thought he would win. Greens just decided that the dems were ignoring us, and we made a statement. Most Greens I knew didn't even like Nader, they said he was a big asshole personally, treated his people like crap. But we were sick of being ignored by the dems. What had Clinton done? Nothing; signed a couple Natl Monuments.
Ralph Nader has done more for this country than any of the last 5 President's combined, what does Nader have to do with it he says, he says...
 

ecofarm

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Ralph Nader has done more for this country than any of the last 5 President's combined, what does Nader have to do with it he says, he says...
I was at Florida International Uni. Dozens of us couldn't give a crap about Nader. Many said he was a total **** to people personally. All we cared about was sticking it to the dems for ignoring us during the Clinton economy - and we stuck it to them like they've never felt before. After that, things changed.

Once again: No one expects the Green candidate to win, so who the candidate doesn't matter.
 
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How many political positions are currently exstablished in the United States including the smallest towns? One thousand, ten thousand. Every state has X number of politicians and the huge majority are doing next to nothing for anyone. I vote republican. I was disgusted with GWB for many reasons but here is my long running delema, I cannot in clear conscience vote for a democrat when I truley believe he or she is no better!!! Two teams play a game, you pick your favorite buth they are both playing the same game. Al Gore was as unbearbale to watch as GWB. All I could see when Gore spke was "insincereity" and when GWB spoke "lost" was all I could see.
 
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One advantage to not belonging to a party. Isn't it...
but you don't have to be a member of a party to be perceived as supporting one more than the other (e.g. a Republican in Libertarian clothing, or a Dem in Libertarian clothing) ... in any event, ideology matters more on these threads I believe ... the disagreements are usually along the right-left continuum, usually between the ones on either end, and often between more or less government, which typically puts libertarians on the side of Republicans - it's also that divide that helps to explain, to a considerable degree I suspect, why blacks and Latinos tend to vote overwhelmingly Dem ...
 

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I don't have a party and we suck!!!!

:yt
 

bubbabgone

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but you don't have to be a member of a party to be perceived as supporting one more than the other (e.g. a Republican in Libertarian clothing, or a Dem in Libertarian clothing) ... in any event, ideology matters more on these threads I believe ... the disagreements are usually along the right-left continuum, usually between the ones on either end, and
often between more or less government, which typically puts libertarians on the side of Republicans - it's also that divide that helps to explain, to a considerable degree I suspect, why blacks and Latinos tend to vote overwhelmingly Dem
...
...the obvious question, then, is what drives blacks and latinos to want more government?
 
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