Whites commit more crimes than blacks. Are they a problem race?

[Excon]

How ironic, this is precisely what the analysis by Kirov and Peterson find.

:doh
No they didn't.

It is funny that you think possible correlation equals causation. :doh


They didn't find anything. They theorized.

 

[radcen]

How much education and enrichment in the home did they get at an early age? If you get nothing from age 0 to 5, then some forms of reasoning are going to be next to impossible for you as an adult no matter how hard you try. One of our adopted daughters came here at age 9, she works harder in school than the majority of her peers, she is almost always honor roll. However, because she had zero education before she came here, some forms of abstract reasoning are impossible for her and she does poorly on standardized tests.

I feel like you're bolstering my point. By your own statements your daughter should be a virtual failure because she got nothing from ages 0 to 9 (let alone age 5), yet because of the culture in your home she has been able to greatly overcome that unfortunate start and succeed.

Maybe not top of the class, but successful nonetheless.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

It is funny that you think possible correlation equals causation.

Now your denial is reaching absurd levels. Are you seriously going to argue that crime levels are not inversely proportional to the wealth of a population group?

theorized.

You keep acting as if it means to review data and find correlation.

 

[US Conservative]

Actually, caine's response was pure straw and I suppose your view is that racial discrimination plays no part in Black socioeconomic conditions?

Considering blacks lived in greater poverty, and there were more racists prior-and that black crime has only risen relatively recently-thats not a view I hold.
Racism is still a problem-but its a largely marginalized one-and to blame the current state on racism is simply not reflected by the data.

Tom Sowell has written books about this. You should read him.

 

[Excon]

Are you seriously going to argue that crime levels not inversely proportional to the wealth of a population group?

Gee. There are more white folks in poverty, yet whites disproportionately commit far less crime. Go figure.

You keep acting as if it means to review data and find correlation.

:doh
The correlation is speculative and does not indicate causation.

Your denial is reaching absurd levels.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Considering blacks lived in greater poverty, and there were more racists prior-and that black crime has only risen relatively recently-thats not a view I hold.

I have no idea what data source you are relying on, the percent of folks who hold or more probably admit to racist views might be lower, but I doubt the nominal amount is less.

Racism is still a problem-but its a largely marginalized one-and to blame the current state on racism is simply not reflected by the data.

Absolutely false, our cities are seeing greater levels of segregation, it is increasing. You can and will argue that it has nothing to do with racism, but you would be wrong.

Tom Sowell has written books about this. You should read him.

LOL...I have read a lot of his crap.

 

[US Conservative]

I have no idea what data source you are relying on, the percent of folks who hold or more probably admit to racist views might be lower, but I doubt the nominal amount is less.
Absolutely false, our cities are seeing greater levels of segregation, it is increasing. You can and will argue that it has nothing to do with racism, but you would be wrong.
LOL...I have read a lot of his crap.

If you think racism is as bad or worse now than it has been historically you might be a leftist. Even just the decline of state sanctioned racism should make that evident. Segregation in an of itself is not evidence of racism-people voluntarily segregate themselves for various reasons all the time.

In the 1960's and 70's, the left started busing blacks into white neighborhoods to go to school, and it turned out that many did not WANT to go to those schools. Every lefty "solution" that has been attempted has failed.

When I was a kid, almost all of south central LA was black, now huge portions are hispanic. All of this is after laws that permitted racial discrimination in housing. Another example is Monterrey Park-overwhelmingly Chinese and even today its new residents are Chinese-they have chosen to move to a place with a large culturally similar group-of course there are no shortage of other "China towns".

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Gee. There are more white folks in poverty, yet whites commit disproportionately commit far less crime. Go figure.

No, again, I have already shown that when holding economic conditions equal, this is not a true statement. We have been going over this for 2 days.

:doh
The correlation is speculative and does not indicate causation.

This again shows the ignorance of stat analysis in your argument, when one analyzes data, the correlation between a population group's wealth and the level of crime does not require "speculation", it is borne out in the data.

Your denial is reaching absurd levels.

There is noting more absurd than demanding someone prove an analysis is correct instead of showing it is false.

 

[US Conservative]

No, again, I have already shown that when holding economic conditions equal, this is not a true statement. We have been going over this for 2 days.


This again shows the ignorance of stat analysis in your argument, when one analyzes data, the correlation between a population group's wealth and the level of crime does not require "speculation", it is borne out in the data.

There is noting more absurd than demanding someone prove an analysis is correct instead of showing it is false.

Do yourself a favor and listen to this. You can play it in the back round while you do other things.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

If you think racism is as bad or worse now than it has been historically you might be a leftist. Even just the decline of state sanctioned racism should make that evident.

I'm well aware that state sponsored racism has been nearly eliminated, the question was one of what is in peoples beliefs. As I said, the percent might be lower, but the nominal level, I'm not so sure....especially after spending some time here.

Segregation in an of itself is not evidence of racism-people voluntarily segregate themselves for various reasons all the time.

So are you going to argue that white flight has no component of racism?

In the 1960's and 70's, the left started busing blacks into white neighborhoods to go to school, and it turned out that many did not WANT to go to those schools. Every lefty "solution" that has been attempted has failed.

Ignoring your false notion of "failure", are you going to argue that opposition to busing had no component of racism?

When I was a kid, almost all of south central LA was black, now huge portions are hispanic. All of this is after laws that permitted racial discrimination in housing.

What the hell are you talking about? Redlining was countered in the early 1970's.

Another example is Monterrey Park-overwhelmingly Chinese and even today its new residents are Chinese-they have chosen to move to a place with a large culturally similar group-of course there are no shortage of other "China towns".

The FORMATION of these districts.....was caused by....wait for it.....RACISM.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Do yourself a favor and listen to this. You can play it in the back round while you do other things.

I have heard plenty from white cons who hold to Southern states rights secessionist views.
Fack that.

 

[mbig]

FACT BREAK.

First, My thanks for previous Factual posts to...
Exxcon
US Conservative
Radcen
Turtle Dude
I'm Have to go back and give a Bushel of 'Likes' to the many of their posts I read on the way to this page.

This addressed to SouthernDemocrat, Gimmesometruth, etc.
Here IS some 'Truth'


Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic
Published on April 26, 2005 at 5:29 PM
News-Medical.net


"...Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even AFTER matching on maternal education and other variables," said Rushton. "Therefore they CANNOT be due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect. That's why Jensen and I looked at the genetic hypothesis in detail. We examined 10 categories of evidence."

1. The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture.
Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.

2. Race Differences are Most Pronounced on Tests that Best Measure the General Intelligence Factor (g). Black-White differences, for example, are larger on the Backward Digit Span test than on the less g loaded Forward Digit Span test.

3. The Gene-Environment Architecture of IQ is the Same in all Races, and Race Differences are Most Pronounced on More Heritable Abilities. Studies of Black, White, and East Asian twins, for example, show the heritability of IQ is 50% or higher in all races.

4. Brain Size Differences. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) find a correlation of brain size with IQ of about 0.40. Larger brains contain more neurons and synapses and process information faster. Race differences in brain size are present at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites who average 5 cubic inches more than Blacks.

5. Trans-Racial Adoption Studies. Race differences in IQ Remain following adoption by White middle class parents.
East Asians grow to average higher IQs than Whites while Blacks score lower.
The Minnesota Trans-Racial Adoption Study followed children to age 17 and found race differences were even greater than at age 7: White children, 106; Mixed-Race children, 99; and Black children, 89.
[...And 5 More at Link above]​

 

[Excon]

No, again, I have already shown that when holding economic conditions equal, this is not a true statement. We have been going over this for 2 days.

Wrong.
I provided the numbers and you have failed to refute them.

US Racial Demographics.

White American   223,553,265   72.4 % of population

(Non-Hispanic White 196,817,552  63.7 % of population)​

Black Americans   38,929,319  12.6 % of population

(Non-Hispanic Black 37,685,848 12.3 % of population)​

Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


National poverty rates

Whites 11.6%

Blacks 25.8%​

Pg. 2
http://www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr11-17.pdf

From the above two sources, those numbers calculate to the following.

Whites in poverty = 25,932,179
Blacks in poverty = 10,043,764​

There are more Whites in poverty than Blacks and Whites commit disproportionally far less crime.

This again shows the ignorance of stat analysis in your argument, when one analyzes data, the correlation between a population group's wealth and the level of crime does not require "speculation", it is borne out in the data.

Wrong.
The correlation is speculative and does not indicate causation.
The theory is that it is cause by what they think are correlations.
And again, that theory is not born out by the actual numbers such as for murder, which you keep ignoring.

There is noting more absurd than demanding someone prove an analysis is correct instead of showing it is false.

Of course you have to prove what you put forth as correct. You can't because it is nothing but theory. Which the individual data, such as that for murder, does not support.
Your denial has surpassed absurd levels.

 

[mbig]

Tho in smaller degree malleable for things like "nutrition"/"culture", IQ is Mostly Heritable.

Heritability of IQ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The question of heritability of IQ, concerns the proportion of the variance of a population's IQ level that is attributable to genetic variation within that population. This proportion shows the level of importance of genetics versus environment for phenotypic variation in intelligence quotient (IQ) in a population.
[.......]
Estimates in the academic research of the heritability of IQ have varied from below 0.5[2] to a high of 0.9 (of a maximum of 1.0).[5] IQ heritability increases during early childhood, but it is unclear whether it stabilizes thereafter.[6] A 1996 statement by the American Psychological Association gave about .45 for children and about .75 during and after adolescence.[7] A 2004 meta-analysis of reports in 'Current Directions in Psychological Science' gave an overall estimate of around .85 for 18-year-olds and older.[8] The New York Times Magazine has listed about three quarters as a figure held by the majority of studies.[9]
[......]
Various studies have found the heritability of IQ to be between 0.7 and 0.8 in adults and 0.45 in childhood in the United States.[7] It may seem reasonable to expect that genetic influences on traits like IQ should become less important as one gains experiences with age. However, that the opposite occurs is well documented. Heritability measures in infancy are as low as 0.2, around 0.4 in middle childhood, and as high as 0.8 in adulthood.[8][19] One proposed explanation is that people with different genes tend to seek out different environments that reinforce the effects of those genes.[7]
A 1994 review in Behavior Genetics based on identical/fraternal twin studies found that heritability is as high as 0.80 in general cognitive ability but it also varies based on the trait, with .60 for verbal tests, .50 for spatial and speed-of-processing tests, and only .40 for memory tests.[5]

In 2006, 'The New York Times Magazine' listed about three quarters as a figure held by the majority of studies,[9] while a 2004 meta-analysis of reports in Current Directions in Psychological Science gave an overall estimate of around .85 for 18-year-olds and older.[8]
[......]​

 

[US Conservative]

I'm well aware that state sponsored racism has been nearly eliminated, the question was one of what is in peoples beliefs. As I said, the percent might be lower, but the nominal level, I'm not so sure....especially after spending some time here. So are you going to argue that white flight has no component of racism?

Ignoring your false notion of "failure", are you going to argue that opposition to busing had no component of racism?

What the hell are you talking about? Redlining was countered in the early 1970's. The FORMATION of these districts.....was caused by....wait for it.....RACISM.

Yes, historically the history of Chinatowns were based in racism, but that is NOT why Chinese today choose to move there. Nor is it why hispanics chose to move to south LA.

On white flight, heres an article I'd like you to read. I guarantee you that you will gain some perspective.
A Child

 

[US Conservative]

I have heard plenty from white cons who hold to Southern states rights secessionist views.
Fack that.

He's a middle eastern libertarian. Bit ironic to make such comments as you lament racism isn't it?

 

[US Conservative]

FACT BREAK.

First, My thanks for previous Factual posts to...
Exxcon
US Conservative
Radcen
Turtle Dude

This addressed to SouthernDemocrat et al.

Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic
Published on April 26, 2005 at 5:29 PM
News-Medical.net


"...Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even AFTER matching on maternal education and other variables," said Rushton. "Therefore they CANNOT be due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect. That's why Jensen and I looked at the genetic hypothesis in detail. We examined 10 categories of evidence."

1. The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture.
Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.

2. Race Differences are Most Pronounced on Tests that Best Measure the General Intelligence Factor (g). Black-White differences, for example, are larger on the Backward Digit Span test than on the less g loaded Forward Digit Span test.

3. The Gene-Environment Architecture of IQ is the Same in all Races, and Race Differences are Most Pronounced on More Heritable Abilities. Studies of Black, White, and East Asian twins, for example, show the heritability of IQ is 50% or higher in all races.

4. Brain Size Differences. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) find a correlation of brain size with IQ of about 0.40. Larger brains contain more neurons and synapses and process information faster. Race differences in brain size are present at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites who average 5 cubic inches more than Blacks.

5. Trans-Racial Adoption Studies. Race differences in IQ Remain following adoption by White middle class parents.
East Asians grow to average higher IQs than Whites while Blacks score lower.
The Minnesota Trans-Racial Adoption Study followed children to age 17 and found race differences were even greater than at age 7: White children, 106; Mixed-Race children, 99; and Black children, 89.
[...And 5 More at Link above]​

Absolutely correct, and yet I am told (by lefties, because they say so) that this is somehow racist-as if facts are racist.

Its also ironic that they make this claim while pointing to evidence that asians have a higher IQ than whites.

Gotta love how people twist themselves up in knots over this.

And heres some data on IQ and crime.
http://law.jrank.org/pages/1365/Intelligence-Crime-Explaining-IQ-crime-correlation.html

The American Psychological Association's 1995 report Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns stated that the correlation between IQ and crime was -0.2. In his book The g Factor (1998), Arthur Jensen cited data which showed that, regardless of race, people with IQs between 70 and 90 have higher crime rates than people with IQs below or above this range, with the peak range being between 80 and 90. A learning disability is a substantial discrepancy between IQ and academic performance. It has a relationship to criminal behavior. Slow reading development may be particularly relevant.[1]

Several personality traits are associated with criminality: High impulsivity, high psychoticism, high sensation-seeking, low self control, high aggression in childhood, and low empathy and altruism.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_correlations_of_criminal_behaviour

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...-criminals-are-less-intelligent-non-criminals

http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2123&context=jclc

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Rushton.

Thank god this racist SOB is dead and buried. It has been said that it is the only cure for racist beliefs.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Absolutely correct, and yet I am told (by lefties, because they say so) that this is somehow racist-as if facts are racist.

Its also ironic that they make this claim while pointing to evidence that asians have a higher IQ than whites.

Gotta love how people twist themselves up in knots over this.

In 2009 Rushton spoke at the Preserving Western Civilization conference in Baltimore. It was organized by Michael H. Hart for the stated purpose of "addressing the need" to defend "America’s Judeo-Christian heritage and European identity" from immigrants, Muslims, and African Americans.[36][37] In his speech, Rushton said that Islam was not just a cultural, but also a genetic problem. He thought the religion and issues associated with it were not just a condition of the belief system. His theory was that Arabs have an aggressive personality with relatively closed, simple minds, and were less amenable to reason.[38] The Anti-Defamation League described the conference attendees as "racist academics, conservative pundits and anti-immigrant activists".[39]

 

[joG]

Yes, historically the history of Chinatowns were based in racism, but that is NOT why Chinese today choose to move there. Nor is it why hispanics chose to move to south LA.

On white flight, heres an article I'd like you to read. I guarantee you that you will gain some perspective.
A Child

Good article.

 

[US Conservative]

Good article.

I agree, it makes it a bit more difficult to dismiss white flight as based in racism.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Yes, historically the history of Chinatowns were based in racism, but that is NOT why Chinese today choose to move there.

Um, Asian societies are well known for there xenophobic tendencies, again, it is a race-based choice.

Nor is it why hispanics chose to move to south LA.

Again, the formation of barrios is not foreign to me, I grew up in PHX. Some Hispanics remain in "towns" because of economic reasons, racial reasons and clanish reasons, but most if not all is due in large measure because of racism.

On white flight, heres an article I'd like you to read. I guarantee you that you will gain some perspective.
A Child

Funny, I have presented an analysis of economic conditions as it relates to race and crime, yet here you are try to create the straw that I am arguing it is all about racism. What happens, a new page begins on the forum and all previous posts are forgotten, even when I just asked if racism is not a component....which the author you points to confirms?

 

[US Conservative]

Um, Asian societies are well known for there xenophobic tendencies, again, it is a race-based choice. Again, the formation of barrios is not foreign to me, I grew up in PHX. Some Hispanics remain in "towns" because of economic reasons, racial reasons and clanish reasons, but most if not all is due in large measure because of racism.

Funny, I have presented an analysis of economic conditions as it relates to race and crime, yet here you are try to create the straw that I am arguing it is all about racism. What happens, a new page begins on the forum and all previous posts are forgotten, even when I just asked if racism is not a component....which the author you points to confirms?

To a hammer every problem is a nail.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

He's a middle eastern libertarian. Bit ironic to make such comments as you lament racism isn't it?

"Middle eastern"? Persian? Arab? WTF? Or is your argument going to be that libbers cannot hold Southern secessionist views (he does....durr)?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

To a hammer every problem is a nail.

For every moronic ignoring of points made, there are yet more points that can be ignored.