Which Is More Powerful? Science or Faith?

[steen]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=157316&postcount=46

Speaking of the applicability of 2nd law to both “closed” (isolated) and open systems in general, Harvard scientist Dr. John Ross (not a creationist) affirms:

“...there are no known violations of the second law of thermodynamics. Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems ... there is somehow associated with the field of far-from equilibrium phenomena the notion that the second law of thermodynamics fails for such systems. It is important to make sure that this error does not perpetuate itself.” [Dr. John Ross, Harvard scientist (evolutionist), Chemical and Engineering News, vol. 58, July 7, 1980, p. 40]"

http://www.trueorigin.org/isakrbtl.asp

Well, I got the answer back from Dr Ross:

What I said in Chem. Eng. News is correct, but it has been enterily, and likely purposefully, misinterpreted. Evolution is clearly possible within the 2nd law of thermodynamics. John Ross

So there it is. Creationists lie as usual.

 

[steen]

Steen, you got me... I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong. I was simply trying to present a plausable creationist argument but it's clear that it cannot logically stand. I'm still trying to figre out where I stand spiritually... What I do know is that I believe in God 100% and I believe evolution is the way God brought us into existence... my only real qualms are with atheistic evolutionists.

The science is the same regardless of who talks about it. If you have problems with atheists, make it about atheism. because when you hit evolution, you end up having me strike back. The science is sound.

 

[Thorgasm]

Though faith is powerful, Science is more powerful. Science has cured disease. Science has helped us live longer lives. Science has led to better understanding of our fellow man(communications). Science has made it possible to live where life wasn't possible. Faith has not done these things.

 

[The Real McCoy]

Though faith is powerful, Science is more powerful. Science has cured disease. Science has helped us live longer lives. Science has led to better understanding of our fellow man(communications). Science has made it possible to live where life wasn't possible. Faith has not done these things.

And that makes it more powerful?

 

[Columbusite]

And that makes it more powerful?

I'd say more beneficial.

 

[The Real McCoy]

It's too tough to say in my opinion. Both faith and science have been responsible for both great works and horrible tragedies.

 

[Donkey1499]

Without science, we'd be living as hunters and gatherers. Without faith, we'd be living with more science.

I think it's pretty clear-cut.

We are still hunters and gatherer's. We hunt for jobs and mates. And we gather loads of useless junk to keep in a house, which is just a place for us to keep gathering more stuff. And sometimes we buy a bigger house so we can gather... more stuff. And the more stuff we gather, the higher on the economic food chain we are. It's all simple economics.

 

[Donkey1499]

My charge: Faith is more powerful.

My temporary defense, until I find something better: I'm a Christian, so it's expected.

 

[TimmyBoy]

We are still hunters and gatherer's. We hunt for jobs and mates. And we gather loads of useless junk to keep in a house, which is just a place for us to keep gathering more stuff. And sometimes we buy a bigger house so we can gather... more stuff. And the more stuff we gather, the higher on the economic food chain we are. It's all simple economics.

I am a hunter and gatherer. I enjoy hunting deer, hog and turkey. I also enjoy planting a vegtable garden. The food you get directly from the wild tastes better and is more healthy for you. It doesn't have all that junk that companies put in their food that make it less healthy in order to make a profit or make animals fatter or to preserve the food.

 

[Kandahar]

We are still hunters and gatherer's. We hunt for jobs and mates. And we gather loads of useless junk to keep in a house, which is just a place for us to keep gathering more stuff. And sometimes we buy a bigger house so we can gather... more stuff. And the more stuff we gather, the higher on the economic food chain we are. It's all simple economics.

And without science, you'd spend all your time searching for food so you didn't starve to death, and probably wouldn't live much past age 20. That's hardly the same thing as choosing to "gather stuff" like a bigger house and useless junk.

 

[Thorgasm]

And that makes it more powerful?

What is more powerful than that which sustains life?

 

[Donkey1499]

And without science, you'd spend all your time searching for food so you didn't starve to death, and probably wouldn't live much past age 20. That's hardly the same thing as choosing to "gather stuff" like a bigger house and useless junk.

And what's so bad about that? Roughing it in the wild. Maybe so many people wouldn't be fat if they only had to hunt their own food every now and then.

It is the same as gathering stuff fer yer house. I bet you 10 Kudos that Native Americans gathered shiz to decorate their Wigwams and Teepees.

 

[bandaidwoman]

I vote for faith. I am not aware of any war that has been waged for the sake of science alone but many wars have been waged on the basis of a particular faith alone.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Hmm...praying saves no one. Medical science has saved millions. Score Science a 10.

The Battle of New Orleans was fought after the War of 1812 was over. Praying didn't fix that kind of problem, Alexander Graham Bell and Marconi did. Score Science a 10.

People that pray for war often get it. Give religion a 5, because people that pray against a war often lose.

Religion divides people into groups and classes. Science proves there's no significant biological difference between us. Score science a 10.

Religion makes people feel good. Give it a 10. Science makes people feel good. Give it a 10, too.

Science scores 45, religion 15 on my totally arbitrary and perfectly subjective measures.

 

[robin]

Faith is more powerful at causing conflicts & wars.
Faith is more powerful at captivating the human imagination as to why humans would like to think they exist & like to think how important they are.

Science is more powerful at curing & preventing disease & starvation.
Science is more powerful at finding the truth as to why we exist.. namely... we are big brained animals, serving our genes.

 

[Deegan]

Faith is more powerful at causing conflicts & wars.
Science is more powerful at curing & preventing disease & starvation.

Starvation?

Not sure I understand?

As I have said before, science will kill us all. When the day comes that we see that huge mushroom cloud science brought us, we will all be wishing we had some faith.

 

[Thorgasm]

Starvation?

Not sure I understand?

As I have said before, science will kill us all. When the day comes that we see that huge mushroom cloud science brought us, we will all be wishing we had some faith.

Crop rotation, hybrids, and irrigation. You remind me of the old homeless guy with the sign, "The End is Near!"

 

[Conflict]

Scientia Est Potentia.

There is nothing more to it.

Faith relies on an idea... a whim... a form of wishfull thinking.

Science breaks reality down to facts.... applicable theories... a form of actionable and repeatable observation.

Faith cannot substantiate anything.

Science can.

Scientia Est Potentia.

 

[kal-el]

Let's see, faith (religion in particular) kills, while science saves lives. ENOUGH SAID.

 

[The Real McCoy]

Let's see, faith (religion in particular) kills, while science saves lives. ENOUGH SAID.

Dude, science kills and faith saves lives... you can't just look at one side of the coin.

 

[Thorgasm]

Dude, science kills and faith saves lives... you can't just look at one side of the coin.

Faith gives peace of mind to some, which you could say can help save a life. But when you have a physical ailment such as cancer, who do you go see first? The clergy won't diagnose that cancer, they will even tell you to go see a doctor.

 

[galenrox]

I'd guess science, because, at least as far as I'm concerned, if science contradicts my faith, it tends to make me believe that maybe I've misinterpretted something, and I will adjust my faith accordingly (considering that the basic important things of my faith, love thy neighbor, God exists, and Jesus was his son, etc., can't be disproven).

But, if you want to be a dick about it, and right now I do, science is rooted in faith. The entirity of science is based on a few basic assumptions that cannot be proven or disproven (i.e. the laws of physics have always been as they are now, etc., it's perfectly logical, but it's still an assumption), so yeah, belief in science takes faith, not much, but it is definately rooted in faith.

 

[kal-el]

Dude, science kills and faith saves lives... you can't just look at one side of the coin.

Science dosen't kill at all. Sure, they have some blemishes, but ultimately science is but knowledge, I would say the one who uses it is responsible for the mishaps.

 

[The Real McCoy]

Faith gives peace of mind to some, which you could say can help save a life. But when you have a physical ailment such as cancer, who do you go see first? The clergy won't diagnose that cancer, they will even tell you to go see a doctor.

Cancer... yea, not much faith can do about that... except perhaps to give the victim or their family peace of mind. But that's just one example. Just because faith can't cure physical diseases doesn't mean it doesn't save lives.

 

[The Real McCoy]

Science dosen't kill at all. Sure, they have some blemishes, but ultimately science is but knowledge, I would say the one who uses it is responsible for the mishaps.

If your claim that science saves lives is true, then my claim that it kills is just as true. You can't cast aside my argument without voiding your own.