Where do you come down on "NO KNOCK" warrants?

[donhughesmusic]

The "victim/suspect" of no knock warrants is responsible for paying for any damage done by the police, assuming the warrant is valid for the address that was hit.

I am against them due to the castle doctrine. If it is reasonable for a homeowner to assume that someone breaking down their door is trying to kill them, then whether or not that person turns out to be a police officer who didn't properly identify himself after the fact should be irrelevant.

Not all states have castle doctrine, so would it differ state to state then?

 

[Integrityrespec]

Police served a no knock warrant in my apartment building on the West side of Louisville KY a few days ago, which left me wondering a few things. Mostly if no knock was even necessary and who is going to pay for the damages?

I mean does the city pay for it, the door? So I'm I going to have to pay more tax because the police can't get a damed key from the owner of the building?

Or I'm I going to have to pay higher rents because of it, now that they had to pay maintenance to board up the door and later to repair it?

As an aside, the maintenance man told me they boarded up the door with a cat inside.

I don't know what went on but I suspect low level drug shit or some other felony warrant was served looking for someone inside.

Are these warrants even necessary and do they really do more harm than good?

Look at the reasons police may need one of these warrants:

1. People flushing drugs down the toilet or otherwise destroying evidence of a crime.
2. People suspected of have guns and the will to use them.
3. Explosives.

My take:

1. The US being a free country, and the whole basis of a free society is that of adult informed consent, drugs are not illegal anyway. How is someone going to have much more time to destroy evidence of the crimes such as child Pornography if they knock first?

2. This is America, everyone has a gun.

3. Explosives are a danger, but serving a no knock doesn't really make them any safer.

I think the justice system has just gone crazy with no knock for anything and everything. I can still see them being of use when they can't get a key in the case of explosives when it maybe linked to some form of terrorism when there maybe a reasonable cause to believe someone inside will blow the explosives rather than being taken alive.

So where do you come down?

Great risks in executing a warrant. It should be very carefully researched prior to approval in order to get a no knock warrant. And the information has to be verified. Problem is there usually aren't enough staff to properly make sure all the information is correct, so there's always risk on both side. Answer is to hire more staff in the Police department to properly do the jobs and get their information verified.

 

[jamesrage]

Police served a no knock warrant in my apartment building on the West side of Louisville KY a few days ago, which left me wondering a few things. Mostly if no knock was even necessary and who is going to pay for the damages?

I mean does the city pay for it, the door? So I'm I going to have to pay more tax because the police can't get a damed key from the owner of the building?

Or I'm I going to have to pay higher rents because of it, now that they had to pay maintenance to board up the door and later to repair it?

As an aside, the maintenance man told me they boarded up the door with a cat inside.

I don't know what went on but I suspect low level drug shit or some other felony warrant was served looking for someone inside.

Are these warrants even necessary and do they really do more harm than good?

Look at the reasons police may need one of these warrants:

1. People flushing drugs down the toilet or otherwise destroying evidence of a crime.
2. People suspected of have guns and the will to use them.
3. Explosives.

My take:

1. The US being a free country, and the whole basis of a free society is that of adult informed consent, drugs are not illegal anyway. How is someone going to have much more time to destroy evidence of the crimes such as child Pornography if they knock first?

2. This is America, everyone has a gun.

3. Explosives are a danger, but serving a no knock doesn't really make them any safer.

I think the justice system has just gone crazy with no knock for anything and everything. I can still see them being of use when they can't get a key in the case of explosives when it maybe linked to some form of terrorism when there maybe a reasonable cause to believe someone inside will blow the explosives rather than being taken alive.

So where do you come down?

Yes police overuse them.No knock warrants should be illegal. With all the gear police have to protect themselves there is no reason they can't knock or at least loudly announce their presence. Preventing evidence from being disposed of is not a valid reason for a no knock warrant. Also considering the fact there may be people other than the suspect in the building a no knock warrant puts those people at risk as well.And as the Breonna Taylor case showed us the police get it wrong and there is no recourse for the victim. If anything not knocking and busting into someone's house should be legal grounds to be shot by the occupant regardless if the persons busting in are criminals or law enforcement.

 

[mrjurrs]

I've been trained to make them, and have made them, in places where people were trying to kill me.

A higher standard than reasonable man, is, I think, not warranted, here.



That sounds like a reasonable solution, though I would include mechanisms for appeal to account for cases where someone finds themselves in a Well He May Have Been Drunk, But, It Was The Mayor's 16 Year Old Kid Who Claimed You Literally Killed Him With A Chainsaw, So, We Gotta Fire You, Bob* or similar situation.


*some hyperbole, But I think you see where I'm going with that.

No solution is without challenges. Wouldn't you say that those cases should be dealt with by the police union?

 

[Crovax]

No knock warrants have little value, especially hiw the police have used them. IMO the police have massively abused no knock warrants and should no longer have that option

 

[Jason Warfield]

I said yes with the caveat that there are some circumstances (as folks have listed here).

It is being over used and appears to create more problems than it solves…when it really isn’t needed.

 

[molten_dragon]

They're dangerous for both police officers and citizens. There may be limited situations where the benefits outweigh the risks, but that isn't the case most of the time they're being used. They need to be scaled way back with much more strict requirements to obtain them.

 

[cpwill]

No solution is without challenges. Wouldn't you say that those cases should be dealt with by the police union?

Good Heavens, no. We need some layer of accountability.

 

[mrjurrs]

Good Heavens, no. We need some layer of accountability.

Then I disagree that a LEO should have the option of clarifying why he left. The reason for leaving would be completed by the department, and their description would be final.

 

[lwf]

Voted No.

In an extreme instance like terrorists, if used, not at night when most residents are home in bed and the residence must be under observation prior to ensure there are no innocent people inside...only targets, period.

Here, a few yrs ago, an innocent man in his room, in bed, was shot 16 times when LE burst in. He was not the target. He also survived (the LE was all kinds of incompetent, not only did they not verify their target, they couldnt even kill him with 16 shots) and sued the city.

I hope he owns Main Street at this point.

 

[cpwill]

Then I disagree that a LEO should have the option of clarifying why he left. The reason for leaving would be completed by the department, and their description would be final.

As we have seen with public sector unions, that only creates conditions for the very abuses you wish to avoid with the measures in the first place :-/

 

[bomberfox]

Good Heavens, no. We need some layer of accountability.

As pro union as i am, police unions get very little sympathy from me.

 

[bomberfox]

No solution is without challenges. Wouldn't you say that those cases should be dealt with by the police union?

Thats like letting me watch a hen house. Not a good idea

 

[cpwill]

As pro union as i am, police unions get very little sympathy from me.

public sector unions in general. "Government" ought not be an interest group, or able to effectively steer itself independent of the governed. For all the caterwauling Democrats do about Republican "voter suppression", ain't nobody got nothin on the teachers unions in deep blue cities when it comes to effectively grabbing control of the elections you want to.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Police served a no knock warrant in my apartment building on the West side of Louisville KY a few days ago, which left me wondering a few things. Mostly if no knock was even necessary and who is going to pay for the damages?

I mean does the city pay for it, the door? So I'm I going to have to pay more tax because the police can't get a damed key from the owner of the building?

Or I'm I going to have to pay higher rents because of it, now that they had to pay maintenance to board up the door and later to repair it?

As an aside, the maintenance man told me they boarded up the door with a cat inside.

I don't know what went on but I suspect low level drug shit or some other felony warrant was served looking for someone inside.

Are these warrants even necessary and do they really do more harm than good?

Look at the reasons police may need one of these warrants:

1. People flushing drugs down the toilet or otherwise destroying evidence of a crime.
2. People suspected of have guns and the will to use them.
3. Explosives.

My take:

1. The US being a free country, and the whole basis of a free society is that of adult informed consent, drugs are not illegal anyway. How is someone going to have much more time to destroy evidence of the crimes such as child Pornography if they knock first?

2. This is America, everyone has a gun.

3. Explosives are a danger, but serving a no knock doesn't really make them any safer.

I think the justice system has just gone crazy with no knock for anything and everything. I can still see them being of use when they can't get a key in the case of explosives when it maybe linked to some form of terrorism when there maybe a reasonable cause to believe someone inside will blow the explosives rather than being taken alive.

So where do you come down?

I think we should do away with them, except perhaps in cases where a victim's life is in danger. Using the possibility of a suspect flushing drugs down the toilet as an excuse for kicking his door in unannounced is absurd.

 

[mrjurrs]

As we have seen with public sector unions, that only creates conditions for the very abuses you wish to avoid with the measures in the first place :-/

I completely disagree.

 

[mrjurrs]

Thats like letting me watch a hen house. Not a good idea

Are you a union member?

 

[SkyChief]

Four states have banned ALL no-knock warrants: Florida, Oregon, Connecticut and Virginia.

Many cities, townships and municipalities have banned them as well.

Hopefully no-nock warrants will be banned everywhere. They are insanely dangerous for both the police officers, and the people who's house is being raided.

 

[cpwill]

I completely disagree.

It sort of doesn't matter if we agree with it or not - it is. :-/

 

[Deuce]

I think there should just be blanket immunity for anyone who kills a police officer during such a raid.

 

[donhughesmusic]

I think there should just be blanket immunity for anyone who kills a police officer during such a raid.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

[Lovebug]

Exactly. My home IS my castle and I will NEVER "stop to ask --- are you the police, oh okay, come on in".
Anyone who breaks down the door will be shot, guaranteed.

Ok, I get that. I don't know how I would react. I'd probably too dumbfounded to do anything. Hopefully I'd have the reaction to grab my dog so no harm comes to her. Perhaps there's a need for NK on rare occasions, but I'd be very upset if it were to happen to us or anyone else who would have gladly just opened the door instead.
A bit of topic. We have a big drug problem in the area. It's the south, what can I say? Husband and I are also keeping a small greenhouse for growing legit herbs. We did notice increased chopper fly overs since we started it. Are they checking our progress, lol?

 

[Deuce]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

2nd amendment buddy. Kick my door down in the middle of the night with no warning and without identifying yourself, why should I be held responsible for defending myself?

 

[donhughesmusic]

2nd amendment buddy. Kick my door down in the middle of the night with no warning and without identifying yourself, why should I be held responsible for defending myself?

The difference is I highly doubt you get into situations or associate yourself with people that would put you at risk of having a no knock warrant issued for you. Don't break the law, or associate yourself with people that break the law, and chances are you won't have to worry about no knock warrants.

 

[donhughesmusic]

Exactly. My home IS my castle and I will NEVER "stop to ask --- are you the police, oh okay, come on in".
Anyone who breaks down the door will be shot, guaranteed.

The difference is I highly doubt you get into situations or associate yourself with people that would put you at risk of having a no knock warrant issued for you. Don't break the law, or associate yourself with people that break the law, and chances are you won't have to worry about no knock warrants.