"When somebody burns the American flag they should go to jail for one year!"

[calamity]

I'd say if you burn a flag in front of a bunch of guys and they beat the shit out of you, you should go home proud of yourself for expressing your free speech.

You admit that standing up and shouting 'fire' in a crowed theater is illegal and should be punished. But you, because it conflicts with your position on flag burning, don't have the integrity to apply the same standards when it conflicts with your other positions. You aren't painting a very pretty picture of yourself.

I kinda wonder if we did a search on your comments here on this site if you have ever made comments defending ANTIFA or other leftists for assaulting people for opposing political views. Not saying you have...but I cant help but wonder because there are a whole lot of idiot leftists that have.

Setting a flag on fire in a crowded theater would definitely be illegal.

 

[calamity]

I'd say if you burn a flag in front of a bunch of guys and they beat the shit out of you, you should go home proud of yourself for expressing your free speech.

You admit that standing up and shouting 'fire' in a crowed theater is illegal and should be punished. But you, because it conflicts with your position on flag burning, don't have the integrity to apply the same standards when it conflicts with your other positions. You aren't painting a very pretty picture of yourself.

I kinda wonder if we did a search on your comments here on this site if you have ever made comments defending ANTIFA or other leftists for assaulting people for opposing political views. Not saying you have...but I cant help but wonder because there are a whole lot of idiot leftists that have.

Assault is illegal. Now, that doesn't mean we cannot pretend the ends justify the means when our side does it. It only means that it is illegal, regardless who does it.

 

[Casper]

Someone wants to burn an American Flag in protest that is their freedom and I would not even bother to say anything.

Try to tear down My American Flag and Burn it and I will introduce you to women in white outfits.

 

[Vadinho]

I'd say if you burn a flag in front of a bunch of guys and they beat the shit out of you, you should go home proud of yourself for expressing your free speech.

You admit that standing up and shouting 'fire' in a crowed theater is illegal and should be punished. But you, because it conflicts with your position on flag burning, don't have the integrity to apply the same standards when it conflicts with your other positions. You aren't painting a very pretty picture of yourself.

I kinda wonder if we did a search on your comments here on this site if you have ever made comments defending ANTIFA or other leftists for assaulting people for opposing political views. Not saying you have...but I cant help but wonder because there are a whole lot of idiot leftists that have.

So after I give you examples of the slippery slope your comments would lead us to you divert to another topic altogether reminiscent of a talk show host. Don't bother looking up my posts, I support Antifa and BLM.

 

[chuckiechan]

As I've stated, why Trump proposes something I disagree with, I will argue against it.

In the following video we see a snippet of Trump's recent campaign speech in Michigan:



Now as some members may know, I voted for Trump in 2016. Other's may know that I also "early" voted for him again 2 weeks ago. I support most of his agenda.

However, I do not support this "criminalization" of free expression.

I am a firm believer in the First Amendment right of free expression. While I do recognize some limits (inciting to riot, stealing and destroying other's property to show opposition, etc.) they must be connected to a tangible harm.

Therefore, if someone steals another persons flag, and burns it? Then I can support the idea of arrest for theft and destruction of property, punishable by fine or low-level misdemeanor depending on the circumstances.

But arrest and conviction simply for burning a flag? NO!

As long as the flag is personal property, or freely given by the owner to someone with knowledge and permission of destruction?

That is FREE EXPRESSION folks! Fully protected by the First Amendment.

To allow criminal prosecution and conviction simply for the act of flag burning is wrong. That is a slippery slope which will lead to places we who believe in freedom don't want to see happen.

I still support the President...but NOT in this pursuit.

I’d rather they work on the people who are actually trying to overthrow governments like Portland, LA, etc.

 

[beefheart]

Making it a crime is really stupid, and appeals to the angry ignorant folks. Aside from the fact that when you burn the flag, you are literally burning cloth, you are not burning and destroying some supernatural thing, literally you are burning cloth. Of course you are burning a symbol, but so what? I like to live in a society that has the freedom to do that, and so should everyone, that is what America is all about.

 

[NewfieMom]

Someone wants to burn an American Flag in protest that is their freedom and I would not even bother to say anything.

Try to tear down My American Flag and Burn it and I will introduce you to women in white outfits.

I am not that violent, but after 9/11 I was jumping out of my car to right little flags that people had stuck in the ground and that had fallen over; I couldn't bear to see an American flag on the ground. I supported eBay's Auction for America "selling" (for charity) rhinestone flag pins and flag socks which I wrapped up in red, white, and blue tissue paper and mailed out so that recipients would send donations to the established funds.

I am a real leftie. I believe in freedom of speech and the right to protest by burning an American flag. But I am an American. People have died for our flag.

 

[Casper]

I am not that violent, but after 9/11 I was jumping out of my car to right little flags that people had stuck in the ground and that had fallen over, I couldn't bear to see and American flag on the ground. I supported eBay's Auction for America "selling" (for charity) rhinestone flag pins and flag socks which I wrapped up in red, white, and blue tissue paper and mailed out so that recipients would send donations to the established funds.

I am a real leftie. I believe in freedom of speech and the right to protest by burning an American flag. But I am an American People have died for our flag.

Sadly those days after 9-11 of us being United have ended, and we are now more divided than ever before. Sad when one thinks about it, we lost a golden opportunity, I am thinking we can thank our politicians and media, both left and right, for what we have become, and ourselves for having allowed it to happen.

 

[VanceMack]

So after I give you examples of the slippery slope your comments would lead us to you divert to another topic altogether reminiscent of a talk show host. Don't bother looking up my posts, I support Antifa and BLM.

So you DO see how stupid your examples were, since you support ANTIFA and their use of violence.

Can t help but wonder, knowing how ridiculous you were going to make yourself look in advance, why you even began to start this firewalk.

 

[Vadinho]

So you DO see how stupid your examples were, since you support ANTIFA and their use of violence.

Can t help but wonder, knowing how ridiculous you were going to make yourself look in advance, why you even began to start this firewalk.

This reply tells me all I need to know about you, good day.

 

[VanceMack]

This reply tells me all I need to know about you, good day.

Typical leftist. First you shit the bed, then you rolled around in it.

 

[Vadinho]

Typical leftist. First you shit the bed, then you rolled around in it.

Welcome to my ignore button you buffoon.

 

[VanceMack]

Welcome to my ignore button you buffoon.

Name calling? From an ANTIFA supporter? I'm hurt. Genuinely...



Nah....................not so much.

 

[JoeyJoystick]

(Sigh)

I suppose I could "react" by using a similarly fallacious response attacking you personally, or perhaps via a red herring, straw man, or other deflecting post.

But instead, I'll say this.

While I don't agree with the President on this issue, and a few other things; no one EVER agrees with 100% of what a candidate stands for.

IMO this is political hyperbole, which won't get much traction even if the Republicans managed to take BOTH Houses of Congress this election.

If it is pushed, then I would lobby my Congressmen, and take other actions to work against this.

But let's say this actually manages to pass through Congress (I doubt it)? Then the SCOTUS, which is IMO now both more Originalist and still Independent, would simply take the first case before it and rule it a violation of the First Amendment.

I am not "threatened" by this.

Not when I compare the Democrat's total platform involving threats to the 2A, increasing taxes, allowing open borders, making "nice-nice' with China at the expense of OUR economy and ultimately national security...to name just a FEW major concerns.

So NO, I don't agree that I am a supporter of Fascism, or per your response at best a "Von Papen" do-nothing.

BTW, your response is a perfect example of Moral Panic. Look it up.

Hi Captain,

Well Said, Well Defended. And all that with dignity and without making it personal. A lot of people can learn from that.


Joey

 

[Lisa]

Flag burning used to be a crime nearly everywhere.

You need to read and understand the Texas v. Johnson decision by the SCOTUS because burning the flag is protected free speech.

{{meta.fullTitle}}

 

[Glitch]

I have to agree with the OP, and the Supreme Court of course. While the US flag is certainly symbolic, representing all those who fought and died to preserve the nation. It is still just a flag. If you are the owner of the flag, you should be able to do whatever you please with your property, including burning it. By the way, the proper disposal of an old or damaged US flag is by burning it. US flags are never just thrown away with the trash. That would truly be disrespectful.

Anyone who burns a US flag as a means of political protest has to know that they are pissing on all those who died for this nation, and that is going to provoke a lot of emotions among the patriotic. Every time I was caught outside during Reveille and Retreat while in the military, I always thought of those who died fighting for the nation while I stood and saluted the raising or lowing of the US flag. It was never an inconvenience, only a time for reflection.

People need to remember that the First Amendment exists to protect that speech with which we disagree. If everyone agreed with what was said, then no protections would be required. I would certainly never burn the US flag, except to dispose of it properly with respect, but I also recognize the right of others to make political statements with which I don't agree.

If you want to see what the US looks like without the First Amendment, take a look at the current Congress, the public universities, and social media these last couple weeks. There is literally a 1950s style Chinese communist purge taking effect in the US. Anything contrary to the leftist agenda is being purged nation-wide. I am expecting the next step will be to round up all the prominent conservatives, like Senator Cruz, and make them disappear. Obama using the IRS as a weapon against conservatives will pale in comparison to what is about to happen in 2021.

 

[X Factor]

As I've stated, why Trump proposes something I disagree with, I will argue against it.

In the following video we see a snippet of Trump's recent campaign speech in Michigan:



Now as some members may know, I voted for Trump in 2016. Other's may know that I also "early" voted for him again 2 weeks ago. I support most of his agenda.

However, I do not support this "criminalization" of free expression.

I am a firm believer in the First Amendment right of free expression. While I do recognize some limits (inciting to riot, stealing and destroying other's property to show opposition, etc.) they must be connected to a tangible harm.

Therefore, if someone steals another persons flag, and burns it? Then I can support the idea of arrest for theft and destruction of property, punishable by fine or low-level misdemeanor depending on the circumstances.

But arrest and conviction simply for burning a flag? NO!

As long as the flag is personal property, or freely given by the owner to someone with knowledge and permission of destruction?

That is FREE EXPRESSION folks! Fully protected by the First Amendment.

To allow criminal prosecution and conviction simply for the act of flag burning is wrong. That is a slippery slope which will lead to places we who believe in freedom don't want to see happen.

I still support the President...but NOT in this pursuit.

I know this is from a couple months ago but FWIW, I agree. I understand the impulse to want to protect the flag, but if we don’t support the free speech of those we don’t agree with, then we don’t support it at all.

 

[mrjurrs]

Flag burning used to be a crime nearly everywhere.

So was women voting.

 

[AmNat]

I know this is from a couple months ago but FWIW, I agree. I understand the impulse to want to protect the flag, but if we don’t support the free speech of those we don’t agree with, then we don’t support it at all.

 

[Cameron]

As I've stated, why Trump proposes something I disagree with, I will argue against it.

In the following video we see a snippet of Trump's recent campaign speech in Michigan:



Now as some members may know, I voted for Trump in 2016. Other's may know that I also "early" voted for him again 2 weeks ago. I support most of his agenda.

However, I do not support this "criminalization" of free expression.

I am a firm believer in the First Amendment right of free expression. While I do recognize some limits (inciting to riot, stealing and destroying other's property to show opposition, etc.) they must be connected to a tangible harm.

Therefore, if someone steals another persons flag, and burns it? Then I can support the idea of arrest for theft and destruction of property, punishable by fine or low-level misdemeanor depending on the circumstances.

But arrest and conviction simply for burning a flag? NO!

As long as the flag is personal property, or freely given by the owner to someone with knowledge and permission of destruction?

That is FREE EXPRESSION folks! Fully protected by the First Amendment.

To allow criminal prosecution and conviction simply for the act of flag burning is wrong. That is a slippery slope which will lead to places we who believe in freedom don't want to see happen.

I still support the President...but NOT in this pursuit.

I appreciate your willingness to break with Trump on this issue.

This to me is really just an exemplar of how fake Trump is. He tries to portray himself as a patriot when basically every policy he supports (with the exception I suppose of low taxes) is completely antithetical to everything for which this country stands.

 

[What if...?]

As I've stated, why Trump proposes something I disagree with, I will argue against it.

In the following video we see a snippet of Trump's recent campaign speech in Michigan:



Now as some members may know, I voted for Trump in 2016. Other's may know that I also "early" voted for him again 2 weeks ago. I support most of his agenda.

However, I do not support this "criminalization" of free expression.

I am a firm believer in the First Amendment right of free expression. While I do recognize some limits (inciting to riot, stealing and destroying other's property to show opposition, etc.) they must be connected to a tangible harm.

Therefore, if someone steals another persons flag, and burns it? Then I can support the idea of arrest for theft and destruction of property, punishable by fine or low-level misdemeanor depending on the circumstances.

But arrest and conviction simply for burning a flag? NO!

As long as the flag is personal property, or freely given by the owner to someone with knowledge and permission of destruction?

That is FREE EXPRESSION folks! Fully protected by the First Amendment.

To allow criminal prosecution and conviction simply for the act of flag burning is wrong. That is a slippery slope which will lead to places we who believe in freedom don't want to see happen.

I still support the President...but NOT in this pursuit.

So what about when you beat a cop with the flag?

I need an audible.

 

[What if...?]

Burning the Flag in front of a bunch of patriots sure sounds like it violates ttr Brandenburg test to me. In that case your actions replace your words.

What about wearing a mask? A case can be made that it is assault like having unprotected sex when you know you might have HIV. It certainly is if you do know. In the classic example your arm is invisible, at least six feet long and you may not even know if you are swinging it. So a parent might get to knock you out and walk for breathing on their kids without a mask.

Lenity check.

 

[What if...?]

I’d rather they work on the people who are actually trying to overthrow governments like Portland, LA, etc.

They're too busy trying to get some weed. And it's old news anyway.

 

[What if...?]

I have to agree with the OP, and the Supreme Court of course. While the US flag is certainly symbolic, representing all those who fought and died to preserve the nation. It is still just a flag. If you are the owner of the flag, you should be able to do whatever you please with your property, including burning it. By the way, the proper disposal of an old or damaged US flag is by burning it. US flags are never just thrown away with the trash. That would truly be disrespectful.

Anyone who burns a US flag as a means of political protest has to know that they are pissing on all those who died for this nation, and that is going to provoke a lot of emotions among the patriotic. Every time I was caught outside during Reveille and Retreat while in the military, I always thought of those who died fighting for the nation while I stood and saluted the raising or lowing of the US flag. It was never an inconvenience, only a time for reflection.

People need to remember that the First Amendment exists to protect that speech with which we disagree. If everyone agreed with what was said, then no protections would be required. I would certainly never burn the US flag, except to dispose of it properly with respect, but I also recognize the right of others to make political statements with which I don't agree.

If you want to see what the US looks like without the First Amendment, take a look at the current Congress, the public universities, and social media these last couple weeks. There is literally a 1950s style Chinese communist purge taking effect in the US. Anything contrary to the leftist agenda is being purged nation-wide. I am expecting the next step will be to round up all the prominent conservatives, like Senator Cruz, and make them disappear. Obama using the IRS as a weapon against conservatives will pale in comparison to what is about to happen in 2021.

Obama did not use the IRS as a weapon against conservatives. That is not what happened.

*this post contains deliberate disinformation*

 

[mrjurrs]

I appreciate your willingness to break with Trump on this issue.

This to me is really just an exemplar of how fake Trump is. He tries to portray himself as a patriot when basically every policy he supports (with the exception I suppose of low taxes) is completely antithetical to everything for which this country stands.

...and cutting taxes towards the end of one of the longest economic expansions in American history shows how incompetent he is.