• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

"When somebody burns the American flag they should go to jail for one year!"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Captain Adverse said:
As I've stated, why Trump proposes something I disagree with, I will argue against it.

In the following video we see a snippet of Trump's recent campaign speech in Michigan:



Now as some members may know, I voted for Trump in 2016. Other's may know that I also "early" voted for him again 2 weeks ago. I support most of his agenda.

However, I do not support this "criminalization" of free expression.

I am a firm believer in the First Amendment right of free expression. While I do recognize some limits (inciting to riot, stealing and destroying other's property to show opposition, etc.) they must be connected to a tangible harm.

Therefore, if someone steals another persons flag, and burns it? Then I can support the idea of arrest for theft and destruction of property, punishable by fine or low-level misdemeanor depending on the circumstances.

But arrest and conviction simply for burning a flag? NO!

As long as the flag is personal property, or freely given by the owner to someone with knowledge and permission of destruction?

That is FREE EXPRESSION folks! Fully protected by the First Amendment.

To allow criminal prosecution and conviction simply for the act of flag burning is wrong. That is a slippery slope which will lead to places we who believe in freedom don't want to see happen.

I still support the President...but NOT in this pursuit.
Click to expand...



Shouldn’t hump it either, imo.........
 
Flag burning is legal and it should be...

Anybody that gets upset over a cloth symbol being destroyed has problems..
 
Integrityrespec said:
Burning the Flag in front of a bunch of patriots sure sounds like it violates ttr Brandenburg test to me. In that case your actions replace your words.
Click to expand...
Not even close... nothing about merely burning a flag intends to advocate for illegal action.
 
switt said:
When the president says it, is it free speech? What if he says it in an executive order?
Click to expand...
You need to give a detailed example because this fishing for a reason to insinuate is lame...
 
Bodhisattva said:
You need to give a detailed example because this fishing for a reason to insinuate is lame...
Click to expand...
Free speech is a protection of citizens from the gov. action We can say Obama sucks and Trump sucks and we are offorded protection under the 1st amendment. But when the president says it, that is the government saying it. Hence, is it free speech?
 
switt said:
Free speech is a protection of citizens from the gov. action We can say Obama sucks and Trump sucks and we are offorded protection under the 1st amendment. But when the president says it, that is the government saying it. Hence, is it free speech?
Click to expand...
You still are not clear... if Trump says Obama sucks is it free speech that is protected because he is the government? What?
 
Captain Adverse said:
As I've stated, why Trump proposes something I disagree with, I will argue against it.

In the following video we see a snippet of Trump's recent campaign speech in Michigan:



Now as some members may know, I voted for Trump in 2016. Other's may know that I also "early" voted for him again 2 weeks ago. I support most of his agenda.

However, I do not support this "criminalization" of free expression.

I am a firm believer in the First Amendment right of free expression. While I do recognize some limits (inciting to riot, stealing and destroying other's property to show opposition, etc.) they must be connected to a tangible harm.

Therefore, if someone steals another persons flag, and burns it? Then I can support the idea of arrest for theft and destruction of property, punishable by fine or low-level misdemeanor depending on the circumstances.

But arrest and conviction simply for burning a flag? NO!

As long as the flag is personal property, or freely given by the owner to someone with knowledge and permission of destruction?

That is FREE EXPRESSION folks! Fully protected by the First Amendment.

To allow criminal prosecution and conviction simply for the act of flag burning is wrong. That is a slippery slope which will lead to places we who believe in freedom don't want to see happen.

I still support the President...but NOT in this pursuit.
Click to expand...

Burning flags is a no no for the right, they are much better used to beat police with them.
 
AmNat said:
I value the freedom of ordinary people to live their lives without tyrannical impositions. I'm not that attached to any particular legal document.
Click to expand...
Nice dodge! Well done!
 
VanceMack said:
Burning the flag is a legally recognized form of protected speech. So...no...they shouldnt go to jail for burning a flag. However, burning the flag as a means of protest is meant to inspire hatred and angry and sometimes violent responses, so, similarly, if one burns a flag and someone responds in the manner in which the flag burner hoped to create, then if anyone, the flag burner should be held accountable.
Click to expand...
Nice pretzel logic there. You've now turned flag burning into a thought crime.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
Nice pretzel logic there. You've now turned flag burning into a thought crime.
Click to expand...
That idea would end all free speech as we know it because if someone reacted negatively to the speech then the speaker would be held accountable for the inability of others to act in a rational manner when they are confronted with the ideas of others that they disagree with.

AmNat said:
I value the freedom of ordinary people to live their lives without tyrannical impositions. I'm not that attached to any particular legal document.
Click to expand...
It is the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights, plus attached amendments that protect our rights from tyranny. Do you also want to roll back the Magna Carta in your fascist glee? Your desire for a fascist dictatorship is well preserved in the signature of another.
 
I'll burn a flag anytime I like and I figure there's only a few people that have any right to say a damn word about it - those that served in more elite military units. I'm not gonna respect their complaints but I figure they earned their say. Everyone else, nope. Could not care the slightest bit what some dirty nasty leg or civie has to say about it.
 
ecofarm said:
I'll burn a flag anytime I like and I figure there's only a few people that have any right to say a damn word about it - those that served in more elite military units. I'm not gonna respect their complaints but I figure they earned their say. Everyone else, nope. Could not care the slightest bit what some dirty nasty leg or civie has to say about it.
Click to expand...
That would be incorrect. If you burn it in the wrong place you could be subject to violation of local codes.
 
mrjurrs said:
That would be incorrect. If you burn it in the wrong place you could be subject to violation of local codes.
Click to expand...

I specified anytime thus could have specified any place. I didn't, so I'm correct. But still fun.
 
mrjurrs said:
That would be incorrect. If you burn it in the wrong place you could be subject to violation of local codes.
Click to expand...
A city or state cannot prohibit what the federal government allows.
Article VI, Paragraph 2 of the U.S. Constitution is commonly referred to as the Supremacy Clause. It establishes that the federal constitution, and federal law generally, take precedence over state laws, and even state constitutions.
Click to expand...
 
Lisa said:
A city or state cannot prohibit what the federal government allows.
Click to expand...
I think he means don't burn one in the middle of the post office (for example) because it creates other issues.
 
tacomancer said:
I think he means don't burn one in the middle of the post office (for example) because it creates other issues.
Click to expand...
That would certainly be a problem.
 
I could care less about the jingoism of a traitor.
 
i wonder how many years disgracing the highest office in the land via willfully ignorant narcissistic buffoonery should be worth.
 
AmNat said:
You claimed that outlawing flag burning would be a slippery slope leaping to some sort of Orwellian dystopia. Historically you are wrong. America has become far more Orwellian since the discovery that flag burning is protected than before.



When people burn the flag, they're generally not burning it because they dislike colored material. They generally do it to express contempt for the American nation. No sane healthy society would tolerate such behavior.
Click to expand...
😂
 
AmNat said:
I understand your viewpoint, but it is wrong IMO.

All healthy societies defend their values against attack. Those that don't end up being taken over by hostile parasitic values. Eventually adherents of the new evil values will persecute the adherents of the old good values. This is what has happened in basically every liberal society, including our own nowadays.
Click to expand...
You are destroying constitutional values. You dont care about American values just like all other jingoists and nationalists.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom