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When did you start believing Russia was the Enemy of the United States/the Western World?

When did you begin seeing Russia as an Enemy Country?

  • Since 2016, when Russia began interfering in United States elections

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    68
That was Molten Dragon, thank you very much. I remember when Ted Kennedy and the rest of the doves in the Democratic party would fawn all over the Russians saying how great they were. By the way ole Ted wrote letters to the Russians asking for them to interfere in our elections way back in the 80's. Oh and I didnt call the democrats commies recently, but thanks for reminding me what pinko commie rat bastards a good chunk of the Dems have been over the years. I really hate pushy communists. Makes me want to hulk smash em.

I see someone else saw the movie, " Tank ".
Pushy communists was not exactly the word they used.
I know you were just being polite.
(wink)
 
Thank you so much for looking up and finding the actual monument.
Now i can say for certainty there is one.

PS...I have the DVD of "Attack On Leningrad" but have not watched it yet.

The film is so-so. The episode is not well known. Things must have been terrible. Imagine waiting until the lake froze over enough to support trucks from Finland. On an aside I had an uncle at Stalingrad. He was medic evacuated before the total encirclement.
 
On a more serious note, I consider Russia to be more of an adversary / somewhat hostile nation than an "enemy."
Which in this particular case I'd hold to be a distinction without difference.
 
And the scumbag was Swedish to boot.:lol:

same difference. Sweden has health care, so they're commies too. plus, he had one of those commie flags on his britches.
 
Other. I never believed Russia was a threat to the United States.
Even as a kid, I felt this deep down.
Even as I participated in the "duck & cover" drills in Elementary School, I know they would not attack us.

Then when i joined the Navy and got specialized training, the more i learned, the more i knew they were no threat.
1. In Soviet Russia the corruption was so prevalent if they tried an attack, someone would have alerted us to it long before it began.
2. Their Politburo had no idea what they were doing from one month to the next.
3. They just recently finished a war that killed 20 million of them. They were in no hurry to have even worse casualties in a war against us.
4. They had no way of actually coming over here in any real strength to take and hold land. Cargo planes do not carry enough to sustain a beachhead.
5. Their fleet would have been a pleasant memory within a week or so. You need ships to take and sustain a beachhead. Their would be at the bottom of the ocean just outside the breakwater of their home posts. You can bomb and shoot missiles, but without boots on the ground, you are wasting your time.

No, I never saw Russia as any threat. Still don't.
Those two huge oceans we have on either side of us are very formidable barriers to invasion.

Well, you're describing a very accurate scenario as far as military invasion is concerned, both at that time and even now.
And you didn't even include the fact that as much as fifty percent of their military have sometimes consisted of a type of soldier that does not exist in much of the Western world, the "penal conscript".

Although "OFFICIALLY" Shtrafbats (Russian: штрафбат, штрафной батальон - shtrafbat, shtrafnoi batalion) "only were pressed into service during World War Two", it's generally something of an open secret that Russian military penal conscript soldiers have been in use ever since the Stalin era, although on a much more limited basis.

If there were ever any kind of planned attack on the United States, or even a war theater abroad, most U.S. military experts agree that penal conscript soldiers would be pressed into service in much larger numbers.
And the problems with penal soldiers are many, including discipline, order, morale, patriotism and most of all, sobriety.
And we haven't even touched on the massive expense of such a plan, which they can ill afford.

But all of this overlooks the preferred method of Russian invasion, which we are witnessing right now. Kruschev warned of it a long time ago in his "We will bury you" speech, but he could not have been referring to Soviet anti-Western propaganda of the time, because it was too clumsy, and most of it was derided and laughed at as an object of scorn.

However, Russians have gone to great pains to inject a great deal of sophistication into their propaganda as of late.
Their investment, if in terms of dollars to rubles dwarfs anything our own think tanks and "Rand Corporations" have come up with if viewed proportionally. Simply put, the Russians intend to bury us without ever firing a single bullet, by leveraging the inherent weaknesses of any open society.
The world witnessed it in Ukraine and in France, and I suspect we will again witness it in other countries.

My opinion only, maybe only $0.02 worth :)
 
The film is so-so. The episode is not well known. Things must have been terrible. Imagine waiting until the lake froze over enough to support trucks from Finland. On an aside I had an uncle at Stalingrad. He was medic evacuated before the total encirclement.

I know our submarine fleet and two huge oceans keep us pretty safe from invasion, but...

It would be, and always has been, pretty stupid for anyone to invade Russia also.
Yes, the Germans had mechanized front line units, but everything behind them was mostly horse drawn.

My apologies. I could go on about that subject till the cows come home.
I have rifles and pistols used by both sides as a military historian.
Though the German weapons are pretty nice and a joy to shoot, once the temps drop below freezing the Russian weapons will keep firing well below that.
They also had animal based weapons lube in those cases.

OK, I will shut up. Thread drift.
 
Assassination of journalists woke me up.

Before that I had some hopes and, as it turned out, naively.

Everything that occurred since no longer surprised me and just confirmed that czarism lives on, be it of nobility, Red or whatever other quality one wants to assign to it nowadays.

Incidentally a stance I don't extend to Russia as a whole in the sense of the Russian people.

To the Kremlin, any time.
 
same difference. Sweden has health care, so they're commies too. plus, he had one of those commie flags on his britches.
Yeah, let's waste Sweden while we're at it.:mrgreen:

Switzerland too.

Bunch of friggin' neutrals. :lol:
 
I know our submarine fleet and two huge oceans keep us pretty safe from invasion, but...

It would be, and always has been, pretty stupid for anyone to invade Russia also.
Yes, the Germans had mechanized front line units, but everything behind them was mostly horse drawn.

My apologies. I could go on about that subject till the cows come home.
I have rifles and pistols used by both sides as a military historian.
Though the German weapons are pretty nice and a joy to shoot, once the temps drop below freezing the Russian weapons will keep firing well below that.
They also had animal based weapons lube in those cases.

OK, I will shut up. Thread drift.
Until someone squawks......

The entire “Barbarossa” thing is interesting to study. The Germans rolled in full of hubris thinking that they would be done by the time winter became an obstacle. Supply didn’t even lay on winter gear. Napolean’s folly was at the dawn of the previous century and should have been a warning. To the credit of the Germans, civilian and military, no quarter was expected when the roles were reversed due to the scorched earth policy the Germans used on the way in........amazing that there is the veneer of civility between the two nations today.
 
~.........................Though the German weapons are pretty nice and a joy to shoot, once the temps drop below freezing ....................~
They've meanwhile progressed.

Now they have the H&K G36, which malfunctions in high outside temperatures.

Now if they took that one to Russia and (say) the old MP 40 to (say) the Arizona desert, we might have to shift focus.:lol:

OK, I will shut up.
Me too.
Thread drift.
same reason.

:mrgreen:
 
"...amazing that there is the veneer of civility between the two nations today."

Until too much beer and vodka flows. :lamo

By the way, Pleasant Valley's recent post put me in mind of one of my favorite BBC Top Gear UK episodes.

"Cars Made by Communists"

https://vimeo.com/105422200

Well worth watching all 17 minutes worth, you will clutch your sides laughing.
 
Until too much beer and vodka flows. :lamo

By the way, Pleasant Valley's recent post put me in mind of one of my favorite BBC Top Gear UK episodes.

"Cars Made by Communists"

https://vimeo.com/105422200

Well worth watching all 17 minutes worth, you will clutch your sides laughing.
:lamo:lamo:lamo

You DO know why the Lada Niva was eventually equipped with rear window heating?

To stop your hands from freezing off when your were pushing it along a winter road.
 
I see someone else saw the movie, " Tank ".
Pushy communists was not exactly the word they used.
I know you were just being polite.
(wink)

Yea I did. Pretty good movie. James Garner was in it. :lamo
 
Yea I did. Pretty good movie. James Garner was in it. :lamo

Of course you do realize that Garner was a faithful supporter of Democratic and other liberal politics.
But despite that, he was adored by conservatives like Tom Selleck and Clint Eastwood.

That's because he wasn't a partisan hack.
 
Of course you do realize that Garner was a faithful supporter of Democratic and other liberal politics.
But despite that, he was adored by conservatives like Tom Selleck and Clint Eastwood.

That's because he wasn't a partisan hack.

I do actually and still like him and his movies. Space Cowboys was one of the last movies he did and he was quite good in it, with him Tommy, Donald and Clint. He was old school Democrat like JFK, not some glorified communist JFKs brother Ted. That and he didnt really talk politics.
 
When I was ducking and covering under my desk in fifth grade fifty some years ago.
 
I do actually and still like him and his movies. Space Cowboys was one of the last movies he did and he was quite good in it, with him Tommy, Donald and Clint. He was old school Democrat like JFK, not some glorified communist JFKs brother Ted. That and he didnt really talk politics.

I am not impressed with your stupid characterizations of Ted Kennedy.
For one thing, Uncle Ted screwed up in ways which had absolutely nothing to do with communism at all.
For instance, after reeling from pressure on all sides of the health care debate, INCLUDING industry lobbies and fellow Republicans, Nixon finally yielded and offered to work together in bipartisan fashion with Ted to put together a "national" health care plan based loosely on the Kaiser model. It was the eleventh hour, and instead of going for it, Ted gave the "not invented in Democrat land" response and stood on ceremony, demanding a Democrat all or nothing package.

Fine, Nixon decided, offer withdrawn, go **** yourself, and Uncle Ted went to his grave saying that it was the biggest blunder he ever committed in his entire political career. But it had nothing to do with communism, it had to do with stubborn pride and partisan hackery, and in your case, based on the back and forth I've observed from you AND ALSO my own conversations with you, it's a problem you have as well.
Oh and, tough **** if you don't want Garner to talk politics. Fact is, he did from time to time, and so does Clint.
But even Clint, despite his senile blunder at the 2012 elections, isn't a partisan hack either.

And by the way, Bobby Kennedy just might have turned out to be a better political leader than John, had he lived.
He had better moral underpinnings.

Know your Democrats if you're going to try pissing on them, I know my Republicans.
Welcome to DEBATE Politics.
 
My "short" answer:

"When did you start believing Russia was the Enemy of the United States/the Western World?"

When I was old enough (maybe ten years old) to finally realize that my father was a nuclear physicist who worked at The Pentagon, specializing in a field known as "weapons effects".

(My father, second from Left, as a SALT negotiator in Moscow - SALT I Talks)
PeterHHaasSALTTALKSMoscow1a.jpg

(Thermal X-Ray laser weapon, invented by my father at Harry Diamond Labs)
X-raylaser1.jpg

(A handful of some of the nuclear tests he worked on at Nevada Test Site)
Nukeplaque2.jpg

My father also invented a little something called "nuclear hardening for military and mission critical civilian electronics infrastructure", which is a glorified way of saying that your phone and ISP companies and Air Force One (and other military assets) are all protected from EMP.

You're welcome ;)

Of course, I didn't realize ALL of that by age ten, but staring at the plaque with all the Nevada nuke tests got me asking questions, some of which he wasn't allowed to answer. :) But he answered enough of them that I started to gradually get a sense of what he did, and the Soviets were always on his mind, naturally.
 
Georgia/Saakashvili and the CIA invaded Ossetia and killed Ossetians and Russians. The Russians retaliated and marched accross Georgia to the Capitol and stopped. They could have taken Georgia if they had any such intentions. Instead, they said "Au revoir, cokesuckaires," and went home. Yep! Sure sound like land grabbin' imperialists to me, or not? Ruthless, yes. Imperialists, no. I've never felt the USA threatened by Russia until the USA decided to meke Russia the goat in a new Cold War to keep MIC profits flowing. Sanctions, economic weapons, accusations, and lo and behoold, China and Russia are forced to become allies, especially economically. The USA will regret the economically part. The debt of the USA makes the Western Economic System a "house of cards" and now China and Russia are building viable alternatives to the Western Economic System. Russia is our enemy because we forced it to be that way. Don't bring up Ukraine and Crimea unless you are willing to acknowledge the CIA/NED/USAID/USA initiated coup d'etat and lack of recognition of that gov't by Crimea and Donbass. The USA thought they could control the Ukraine gas pipeline fed by Russian gas to the EU. TurkStream is about to connect to EU and also NordStream 2. Ukraine is going to get the big squeeze play unless they pay upfront for gas. Wait, it's coming to me, they can pay double for USA LNG. Wowser. USA stupid politics is going to wind up babysitting Ukraine and lending it more and more money as a major liability. Last words. Putin has done a magnificient job of resurrecting Russia from the shambles the USA/EU allowed the Nations to become. His job is to take care of Russians and he does. He's elected. Find a transcript of his annual press conference and see if he knows anything and weigh that info carefully by comparison against any Western leader. I've done my best to answer your question.
/

Time to first lie?

First sentence.



Russian forces temporarily occupied the Georgian cities of Zugdidi, Senaki, Poti, and Gori, holding on to these areas beyond the ceasefire. The South Ossetians destroyed most ethnic Georgian villages in South Ossetia and were responsible for an ethnic cleansing of Georgians. Russia recognised the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia from Georgia on 26 August; in response, the Georgian government severed diplomatic relations with Russia. Russia mostly completed its withdrawal of troops from undisputed parts of Georgia on 8 October. In the aftermath, Russia's international relations were largely unharmed. The war displaced 192,000 people and while many returned to their homes after the war, 20,272 people, mostly ethnic Georgians, remained displaced as of 2014. Russia has, since the war, occupied Abkhazia and South Ossetia in violation of the ceasefire agreement of August 2008.
 
I am not impressed with your stupid characterizations of Ted Kennedy.
For one thing, Uncle Ted screwed up in ways which had absolutely nothing to do with communism at all.
For instance, after reeling from pressure on all sides of the health care debate, INCLUDING industry lobbies and fellow Republicans, Nixon finally yielded and offered to work together in bipartisan fashion with Ted to put together a "national" health care plan based loosely on the Kaiser model. It was the eleventh hour, and instead of going for it, Ted gave the "not invented in Democrat land" response and stood on ceremony, demanding a Democrat all or nothing package.

Fine, Nixon decided, offer withdrawn, go **** yourself, and Uncle Ted went to his grave saying that it was the biggest blunder he ever committed in his entire political career. But it had nothing to do with communism, it had to do with stubborn pride and partisan hackery, and in your case, based on the back and forth I've observed from you AND ALSO my own conversations with you, it's a problem you have as well.
Oh and, tough **** if you don't want Garner to talk politics. Fact is, he did from time to time, and so does Clint.
But even Clint, despite his senile blunder at the 2012 elections, isn't a partisan hack either.

And by the way, Bobby Kennedy just might have turned out to be a better political leader than John, had he lived.
He had better moral underpinnings.

Know your Democrats if you're going to try pissing on them, I know my Republicans.
Welcome to DEBATE Politics.

I do know my Democrats I watched them for decades. Ted was ****ing pissant communist sympathizing traitorous ****. Those my kind words for the dumb SOB being as he is dead. As for Bobby he and Jack were the same IMO same morals too. Not that I care. They cared about the country and weren't communists. Nixon was an asshat, politico who was just interested in being president.

As far as Garner and Clint and the rest, they didnt put their politics in my face, and you are quite right they weren't hacks about it when they did on occasion. that and for the most part they made movies and such I liked to watch. I watch all sorts of peoples movies, and I dont particularly care about their politics, only if they are good at entertaining me and the movie they are in is entertaining. Alex Baldwin is one of my favorites even though he is a bit loopy. He does passable Trump impression too.

You seem to have gotten a little pissy over my previous description of the lying scoundrel named Ted Kennedy. I you wish I will happily dredge up the nasty awful **** that scumbag did. I dont know all the Democrats but I do know Ted.
****ing vermin that one.
 
I do know my Democrats I watched them for decades.
(SNIP)
You seem to have gotten a little pissy over my previous description of the lying scoundrel named Ted Kennedy. I you wish I will happily dredge up the nasty awful **** that scumbag did. I dont know all the Democrats but I do know Ted.
****ing vermin that one.


It was amazing to watch you contradict yourself in the same post.

I do know my Democrats I watched them for decades.

I dont know all the Democrats but I do know Ted.

If I was pissy about Ted, I wouldn't have made mention of his supreme screwup on health care now, would I?
Words and their meanings don't seem to be very important to you but measuring my urine output is, imagine that.

Maybe you should limit the number of instances where you throw around the word communist, if you don't want to come off like a whackjob from the John Birch Society.
Unless of course, you do, and that was your objective.

 
It was amazing to watch you contradict yourself in the same post.





If I was pissy about Ted, I wouldn't have made mention of his supreme screwup on health care now, would I?
Words and their meanings don't seem to be very important to you but measuring my urine output is, imagine that.

Maybe you should limit the number of instances where you throw around the word communist, if you don't want to come off like a whackjob from the John Birch Society.
Unless of course, you do, and that was your objective.



Really??:roll:

I do know my Democrats I watched them for decades.

I dont know all the Democrats but I do know Ted.

You were saying something about reading comprehension?

No, I dont like communists. They and their ilk are an anathema to my way of life especially when they wish to foist it upon me without regard to my opinion on the matter.
 
Really??:roll:

I do know my Democrats I watched them for decades.

I dont know all the Democrats but I do know Ted.

You were saying something about reading comprehension?

No, I dont like communists. They and their ilk are an anathema to my way of life especially when they wish to foist it upon me without regard to my opinion on the matter.

So you don't know what a contradiction is either, duly noted.
Again, your over-reliance on calling nearly anything/everything "communist" is either a head-scratcher or it smacks of attempted troll bait.

Either way, when you make everything reduced to an all purpose buzz word, the word loses meaning.
I'd bet ten bucks that you (A) don't know any actual Communist Party members, (B) have never been to a Communist country, and (C) wouldn't be able to accurately describe Communism without the help of a dictionary or some type of online aid.

In any case, calling Democrats "communists" is a huge "tell"...if you're actually serious, it indicates some sort of severe paranoia.
 
This is for those in the room who consider themselves anti-Russian and view the Russian Federation presently led by Vladimir Putin as either the enemy or geopolitical rival of the United States and the Western World in general.

My particular animus towards Russia came about in 2008 when they invaded Georgia, and I realized just how thuggish the Russian regime truly was. I realized that Russia had been a rather sad, corrupt backwater. But the Georgian invasion made me realize the depth and sinister elements of Russian nationalism and the ruthlessness of the Russian state itself.

What about you? When did you have your awakening and realize that the Russian state was the enemy of the United States?

You dont have to be anti-Russian to recognize that Russia & the US have been adversaries for a long time.

None of your poll options applied to me. I grew up during the Cold War.

And I have nothing against Russian people.
 
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