When did you start believing Russia was the Enemy of the United States/the Western World?

[Logician Man]

So you got nothin'. That's what I thought. But, OK, let's start from some facts. Everybody does "meddlin'. In that sense, then, everybody is an enemy. But the US is better at it than most; or at least much more involved. We're like old school gangsters; we don't just buy or influence a few thousand votes; we actually kill people and plan the deaths of others. And we'll actually invade to get what we want. There is nowhere on the planet we won't go to sabotage an election, drive out an elected leader, assassinate where other means don't work, and in general interfere on a global scale. How many foreign bases we have compared to those horrible Russians? How many elections have we interfered with the past few decades? Almost 200 by some counts. Maybe we should lead the world by example.....Oh, wait......we do...... we set a very bad example. Does that make US the enemy of almost every other nation on earth?

The topic being discussed is 'Russia being an enemy of the U.S'...Do you think Russia is an enemy of the U.S ? A simple YES or NO will suffice.

 

[Waddy]

The topic being discussed is 'Russia being an enemy of the U.S'...Do you think Russia is an enemy of the U.S ? A simple YES or NO will suffice.

I know most people like simple answers, but reality ain't that simple. And political questions are never simple. How do you define '"enemy"? Is it any country that opposes US foreign policy? Are we allowed to label other countries as "enemies" but other countries cannot consider the US their enemies? Is it a country who acts aggressively against their own principles? Then we're our own worst enemy, aren't we? Or is it a country that competes against us on a global scale? Then all middlin' to large countries, including Russia, are our enemies. Do we interfere with Russia's sense of security? Are we Russia's enemy? Would a Russian have a good argument that we are their enemy? Is an enemy any country who engages in election meddling? Then we're the enemy of most countries it would seem. All depends on how you define "enemy". You can't blame other countries for playing the same games we play. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Context is everything.

 

[Logician Man]

I know most people like simple answers, but reality ain't that simple. And political questions are never simple. How do you define '"enemy"? Is it any country that opposes US foreign policy? Are we allowed to label other countries as "enemies" but other countries cannot consider the US their enemies? Is it a country who acts aggressively against their own principles? Then we're our own worst enemy, aren't we? Or is it a country that competes against us on a global scale? Then all middlin' to large countries, including Russia, are our enemies. Do we interfere with Russia's sense of security? Are we Russia's enemy? Would a Russian have a good argument that we are their enemy? Is an enemy any country who engages in election meddling? Then we're the enemy of most countries it would seem. All depends on how you define "enemy". You can't blame other countries for playing the same games we play. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Context is everything.

Address the thread topic and the question posed, so the thread isn't derailed. If you want to talk about these other issues, start a new thread, and your questions can be addressed there. ( debating 101)

 

[Waddy]

Address the thread topic and the question posed, so the thread isn't derailed. If you want to talk about these other issues, start a new thread, and your questions can be addressed there. ( debating 101)

Trying to limit me doesn't help your argument. Just the opposite. And, sorry, you don't get to infringe on my freedom of speech. Anyone can start a thread, but they don't get to control it after that. All of these issues are related, as you would see if you put more thought into it. Your response is simply an attempt to dodge the questions I put forth. We could have a profitable discussion on this but only if you engage responsibly.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You dont have to be anti-Russian to recognize that Russia & the US have been adversaries for a long time.

None of your poll options applied to me. I grew up during the Cold War.

And I have nothing against Russian people.

I don't have anything against the people of Russia either, and I too grew up during the Cold War, with a nuclear physicist for a father, who worked at The Pentagon. Yeah, the USSR in our house was a frequent subject of discussion.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

As long as Russia has 100's of thermonuclear ICBM warheads pointed at us they are our enemy. Putin is a product of the USSR and wants to re-assemble it by invading his neighbors. That is the reason for NATO, something that Trump should never forget.

On the ONE thing, "reassembling the USSR" you're off...only on the "USSR" part.
Vladimir Putin recalls the old Soviet Union and Communism fondly as a piece of the PAST but has absolutely NO FONDNESS for it as a model.
He is not a Communist today in any way whatsoever, and more accurately, if you want an example of what he wants Russia to become, think of the old Imperial Russian Empire of the Czars....except with a lot of nukes.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

In fact, Cossack or would-be Czar would be much more accurate descriptions for Vladimir Putin.

 

[Logician Man]

Trying to limit me doesn't help your argument. Just the opposite. And, sorry, you don't get to infringe on my freedom of speech. Anyone can start a thread, but they don't get to control it after that. All of these issues are related, as you would see if you put more thought into it. Your response is simply an attempt to dodge the questions I put forth. We could have a profitable discussion on this but only if you engage responsibly.

Actually it is you who dodged the question and went off on a tangent...Check the post history.

 

[Waddy]

Actually it is you who dodged the question and went off on a tangent...Check the post history.

No, I was attempting to put the question in some kind of context. Expand the thinking process, as it were. I would have begun to discuss the question with a peek at a little history. Do you know what was going on in Russia in 1917? And what country send troops in to fight on one of the sides? Then we could move forward through history to more recent events, and finally figure out who is the enemy of whom.

If a person were trying to break into your home, would you be considered an "enemy" or a victim? Which word is a better, more accurate descriptor? Is the person attempting to break in more accurately the "enemy"?

If you are familiar with US-Russian history you can see where this is going.

 

[Logician Man]

No, I was attempting to put the question in some kind of context. Expand the thinking process, as it were. I would have begun to discuss the question with a peek at a little history. Do you know what was going on in Russia in 1917? And what country send troops in to fight on one of the sides? Then we could move forward through history to more recent events, and finally figure out who is the enemy of whom.

If a person were trying to break into your home, would you be considered an "enemy" or a victim? Which word is a better, more accurate descriptor? Is the person attempting to break in more accurately the "enemy"?

If you are familiar with US-Russian history you can see where this is going.

For purposes of this thread, that is irrelevant. The thread topic is 'When did you start believing Russia is the enemy'?...not 'Is the U.S. the enemy and why?'.....correct ?
"

 

[Waddy]

For purposes of this thread, that is irrelevant. The thread topic is 'When did you start believing Russia is the enemy'?...not 'Is the U.S. the enemy and why?'.....correct ?
"

Once again, it's not your job, or your right, to limit my speech. Last time I looked, this was still the USA. I'm not limited by the poll, either. I disagree with the poll choices. IMO, the poll sucks. (Lot of that going around lately). I refuse to limit my comments to the level of simplistic jargon offered in the poll.

Now, what you do have a right to do is not read my posts, or read them and not respond, but if you do respond I have the right to respond to you. Or ignore you. See how it works?

 

[Logician Man]

Once again, it's not your job, or your right, to limit my speech. Last time I looked, this was still the USA. I'm not limited by the poll, either. I disagree with the poll choices. IMO, the poll sucks. (Lot of that going around lately). I refuse to limit my comments to the level of simplistic jargon offered in the poll.

Now, what you do have a right to do is not read my posts, or read them and not respond, but if you do respond I have the right to respond to you. Or ignore you. See how it works?

How am I trying to limit your speech ? As for the rest of the drivel, your problem....not mine correct?

 

[Waddy]

How am I trying to limit your speech ? As for the rest of the drivel, your problem....not mine correct?

Maybe here; your post;

Logician Man; Address the thread topic and the question posed, so the thread isn't derailed. If you want to talk about these other issues, start a new thread, and your questions can be addressed there. ( debating 101)

Yes it's drivel to more precisely define the term "enemy", and explore what it means to be an enemy. In depth discussions are always such drivel. Good thing you always avoid them. Better to keep it simple.

 

[marke]

This is for those in the room who consider themselves anti-Russian and view the Russian Federation presently led by Vladimir Putin as either the enemy or geopolitical rival of the United States and the Western World in general.

My particular animus towards Russia came about in 2008 when they invaded Georgia, and I realized just how thuggish the Russian regime truly was. I realized that Russia had been a rather sad, corrupt backwater. But the Georgian invasion made me realize the depth and sinister elements of Russian nationalism and the ruthlessness of the Russian state itself.

What about you? When did you have your awakening and realize that the Russian state was the enemy of the United States?

The ungodly barbarians currently exercising power over the oppressed Russian people are the enemies of civilization, not the good Russian people themselves. Bad Russian civilians are also the enemy of God and civilization. The same is true in every nation. The wicked enemies of God in every nation are also the enemies of good people everywhere.

 

[Logician Man]

Maybe here; your post;



Yes it's drivel to more precisely define the term "enemy", and explore what it means to be an enemy. In depth discussions are always such drivel. Good thing you always avoid them. Better to keep it simple.

Hey,dude. That's not limiting your free speech. That's simply exercising 'my' right to not go off topic. If you can get someone else to discuss those off-topic issues, fine. That's between you and whoever is interested in doing so in this thread. I am not. Are we clear now ?

 

[maxparrish]

I've always considered "Russia" (the Soviet Union) as the enemy. However, between the collapse of the Soviet Union and the rise of Putin I thought of them as finally becoming civilized - with in a few years of Putin's rule, they became the enemy again (G. Bush was so naïve in inviting Putin to his Texas BBQ).

So of course they are still the enemy of Europe and the US, and have regained an interest in renewed European expansionism. And the only way the US could temporarily be a friend to the Russians is if they assist them on every imperialist adventure. Install a Russian puppet in Syria, promote Iran's attempted destabilization of Arab states, suspend the Monroe doctrine and agree that Venezuela is their new Cuba, give up the spratley's, and look the other way on the low hanging fruit (the Baltic States and eastern Ukraine) and "ta-da" we are "friends" for the time being.

 

[Waddy]

Hey,dude. That's not limiting your free speech. That's simply exercising 'my' right to not go off topic. If you can get someone else to discuss those off-topic issues, fine. That's between you and whoever is interested in doing so in this thread. I am not. Are we clear now ?

Logician Man; Address the thread topic and the question posed, so the thread isn't derailed. If you want to talk about these other issues, start a new thread, and your questions can be addressed there. ( debating 101)

You directed that statement directly at me. Actually phrased as a command. Too late to re-direct it now. But nice try, though. As I said, you don't have to engage. Looks like you've finally picked up on that idea now.

 

[Logician Man]

You directed that statement directly at me. Actually phrased as a command. Too late to re-direct it now. But nice try, though. As I said, you don't have to engage. Looks like you've finally picked up on that idea now.

//// phrased as a 'command' //// :lamo

 

[Birdzeye]

Around Feb 2017, when Russia gave up on America after ceaseless hostilities from us.

Of course, they got what they wanted in the 2016 election. Their boy won.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Of course, they got what they wanted in the 2016 election. Their boy won.

They got to watch with glee as the American Elite melted down after Trump won, instructing both them and their partner China that America is likely to be easier to run over than they ever dreamed possible.

 

[Captain America]

Back in the early 60's, in elementary school, when we would have air raid drills and march into the hallway, kneel, and place our hands behind our necks, while folks were building bomb shelters in their back yards, I had a pretty good idea that Russia was bad ju-ju.

We have been conditioned to hate Russia for as long as I can remember.

 

[concernedpuma]

Of course, they got what they wanted in the 2016 election. Their boy won.

I just can't believe the silly pronouncements by those who hate the President for whatever their own private reasons. President Trump is President because the alternative was too hard to bear. If that isn't so, President Trump is a mirage.
It seems everyday some new stuff is thrown against the wall to see what sticks. Only those with an agenda see anything sticking. But worse, the accusations linger, as though they were at some time true. That, my friends is disillusion.
Regards,
CP

 

[Logician Man]

Back in the early 60's, in elementary school, when we would have air raid drills and march into the hallway, kneel, and place our hands behind our necks, while folks were building bomb shelters in their back yards, I had a pretty good idea that Russia was bad ju-ju.

We have been conditioned to hate Russia for as long as I can remember.

Hate Russia ? or fear Russia's capabilities to nuke us into oblivion ?

 

[Captain America]

Hate Russia ? or fear Russia's capabilities to nuke us into oblivion ?

All of the above.

 

[slick]

They got to watch with glee as the American Elite melted down after Trump won, instructing both them and their partner China that America is likely to be easier to run over than they ever dreamed possible.

This post & #79: 'Around Feb 2017, when Russia gave up on America after ceaseless hostilities from us.'

were the most on target assessments I reviewed when scrolling through all the nonsense.

All that this anti-Russian vitriol has accomplished is to draw Russia & China closer together than anytime in recent history!
That is the very bad outcome that descended from the lunacy of the 'Russian collusion' fantasies that supposedly aided Trump in 2016.

The collusion was that Trump wanted to end the sanctions created by Russia siding with the Eastern Provinces breaking off from Ukraine
after the 'Kiev Maidan' coup & shorttly afterward the Ukraine Commander of the Black Sea Fleet changing allegiance after the coup
which essentially led to Crimea's return to Russian hands.

To eastern revolt happening was so obvious, the 3 breakaway provinces always voted for the Russian leaning candidate.
In the last legit full Ukraine election they voted all most unanimously for the disposed Yanukovich:

Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.76 Tymoshenko 7.72%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%

The Maidan revolution was about bringing democracy to Ukraine...or something. Right? This alienated the people
of Donetsk and Lugansk who, having a president THEY voted for, rather thought Ukraine had a democracy already.

Their president was removed - replaced with an interim president who tried to ban their language and appointed
billionaire governors of the eastern regions without elections - and then burned the people in Odessa who protested alive.
East Ukraine, at this point, got it's taste of the new "Ukrainian democracy and freedom" and found they did not care for it.

Did the west really think Putin would do nothing? Russia is too big to be ignored, and too strong to be
lectured to with any hope of results. Trump knows this but was prevented from easing the tension &
the end result is a new enemy we created.