What would a US dictatorship look like? (1 Viewer)

[<alt>doxygen]

I view our current "CORPORATISM" the same as a dictatorship.
/

That's more like oligarchy/plutocracy, and yeah, we're pretty much there and have been since before Trump, though the Trump admin. is making it much worse. Citizens United opened the barn door.

Now our government seems irredeemably corrupt.

 

[PTF]

Question...

" So what would a dictatorship look like in America? "

The former obama regime of course. I will add anything run by the liberal/Demos.

 

[Harshaw]

I think, when all the facts are known, the line between the private life and the Office of the Presidency will be indistinguishable.

Even if he's grifting from the office, that doesn't mean he's exceeded the power of the office. That doesn't make him a dictator. It just makes him garden-variety corrupt.

And if he gets impeached or indicted, which I've been hearing for a while now is coming any day, then he isn't above the law, is he?

In what ways do you think he's "pushed the envelope" when it comes to exceeding his powers as President?

 

[iliveonramen]

Didn't say it was important -- I said it was stupid.

What would a dictatorship look like here in the US?

A dictatorship would look more like the Nazi's taking over the government than the communist rebelling against the Czars. It would be a situation where a President claims more and more power, other branches or powers in the government willing abdicate power to this man, and with the support of the people or some people becomes dictator.

 

[Josie]

Well, lemme see.

A dictatorship is when a president acts without consequence and is above the law.

Like the current one.

Trump is above the law? So if Mueller finds that he conspired with the Russians to rig the election for himself then he won't get indicted?

If Trump is a dictator now, why is he allowing Mueller to investigate him?

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Even if he's grifting from the office, that doesn't mean he's exceeded the power of the office. That doesn't make him a dictator. It just makes him garden-variety corrupt.

And if he gets impeached or indicted, which I've been hearing for a while now is coming any day, then he isn't above the law, is he?

In what ways do you think he's "pushed the envelope" when it comes to exceeding his powers as President?

Trump and his whole family are corrupt and using the power they have to enrich themselves. Whether it's gone over into the illegal realm, I'm not sure.

At this time I would agree that Trump is not a dictator. However, based on his actions and statements, he would love to be a dictator. That pesky "deep state" keeps getting in the way, I guess.

 

[MovingPictures]

Well, no, that's in fact not a dictatorship. Words mean things; you don't get to make up your own definitions.

But nonetheless, it's a baseless charge anyway.

Trump has behaved, on a personal level, abominably. He conducts himself like a bullying child. He is a wretched embarrassment.

But he has not done anything as President -- as in, using the powers of the Presidency -- outside the scope of power of modern Presidents. He has not exceeded any powers of the President as they were handed to him by his predecessor. In fact, he has walked back some of that power, by ending a number of onerous Obama EOs and regulatory reaches, and he actually pays lip service, from time time, to the idea that some of the things people want him to do are properly the role of Congress.

You may not LIKE what he's done, and I certainly haven't liked much of what he's done, but that doesn't mean he's done anything illegal or above the law. It doesn't mean he's exceeded the scope of his powers. He hasn't.

Uh, no.

When a president can refuse to testify in a criminal case, can walk around campaign regulations with illegal hush money, can dangle pardons to possible witnesses against him, can use national security as an excuse to sanction illegal embargo's on ally economies, and outright violate the Emolument clause, then that's president that is obviously above the law in this country.

I realize previous presidents have abused their power, including Democrats. But this is a president that has just walked all over law and order in this country, pure and simple. To pretend otherwise is just sticking your head in the sand.

 

[Renae]

Apparently Joy Behar believes that a dictatorship is when Republicans are in control of Congress, Supreme Court and the Presidency.

https://twitter.com/DavidRutz/status/1012409703689842688

I don't think she gets it............

So what would a dictatorship look like in America?

"I have a pen and a phone...."

 

[MovingPictures]

Trump is above the law? So if Mueller finds that he conspired with the Russians to rig the election for himself then he won't get indicted?

Nope.

The GOP wouldn't care.

If Trump is a dictator now, why is he allowing Mueller to investigate him?

He doesn't need to - plus he wants to see if he can win the midterms.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Trump is above the law? So if Mueller finds that he conspired with the Russians to rig the election for himself then he won't get indicted?

If Trump is a dictator now, why is he allowing Mueller to investigate him?

He won't get indicted by Republicans no matter what. His base is loyal, and the GOP needs those nuts to win. Trump has successfully taken over the GOP.

Before the election I wondered if Trump won, would the GOP cow Trump or vice versa. Now we know the answer...

 

[Josie]

Nope.

The GOP wouldn't care.

You cannot honestly think if there's ample proof that Trump committed a crime that he wouldn't be indicted. That's just crazy town.

He doesn't need to - plus he wants to see if he can win the midterms.

Why does he need to wait and see? He's a dictator, right? Why on earth would he allow the people to have a choice in who they elect? Why would anyone need to be elected?

 

[Rexedgar]

Even if he's grifting from the office, that doesn't mean he's exceeded the power of the office. That doesn't make him a dictator. It just makes him garden-variety corrupt.

And if he gets impeached or indicted, which I've been hearing for a while now is coming any day, then he isn't above the law, is he?

In what ways do you think he's "pushed the envelope" when it comes to exceeding his powers as President?

Counselor, you are leading the witness.......the OP was asking what a dictatorship would look like. See my response. I gave three examples regarding pushing the envelope/putting his wet finger in the wind. Dictatorships have to ripen. We aren’t there, nearly, but if one started it might start like current events.........

 

[Harshaw]

Uh, no.

When a president can refuse to testify in a criminal case, can walk around campaign regulations with illegal hush money, can dangle pardons to possible witnesses against him, can use national security as an excuse to sanction illegal embargo's on ally economies, and outright violate the Emolument clause, then that's president that is obviously above the law in this country.

You are indeed confusing policies and decisions you don't like with actually exceeding his power, as well as levying charges for which there is yet no evidence (and would simply be corruption, not "dictatorship," even if shown to be true).

I realize previous presidents have abused their power, including Democrats. But this is a president that has just walked all over law and order in this country, pure and simple. To pretend otherwise is just sticking your head in the sand.

None of what you said even remotely approaches "dictatorship."

 

[Harshaw]

Counselor, you are leading the witness.......the OP was asking what a dictatorship would look like.

I know. I wasn't responding to the OP.

See my response. I gave three examples regarding pushing the envelope/putting his wet finger in the wind. Dictatorships have to ripen. We aren’t there, nearly, but if one started it might start like current events.........

You said, in response to my post:

Well, no, that's in fact not a dictatorship. Words mean things; you don't get to make up your own definitions.

But nonetheless, it's a baseless charge anyway.

Trump has behaved, on a personal level, abominably. He conducts himself like a bullying child. He is a wretched embarrassment.

But he has not done anything as President -- as in, using the powers of the Presidency -- outside the scope of power of modern Presidents. He has not exceeded any powers of the President as they were handed to him by his predecessor. In fact, he has walked back some of that power, by ending a number of onerous Obama EOs and regulatory reaches, and he actually pays lip service, from time time, to the idea that some of the things people want him to do are properly the role of Congress.

You may not LIKE what he's done, and I certainly haven't liked much of what he's done, but that doesn't mean he's done anything illegal or above the law. It doesn't mean he's exceeded the scope of his powers. He hasn't.

I think Trump has certainly pushed the envelope; and I’m going to say that the verdict is still out on the bolded.

I asked for the ways in which he's done that -- pushed the envelope toward exceeding his powers, or toward dictatorship.

 

[Harshaw]

Trump and his whole family are corrupt and using the power they have to enrich themselves. Whether it's gone over into the illegal realm, I'm not sure.

At this time I would agree that Trump is not a dictator. However, based on his actions and statements, he would love to be a dictator. That pesky "deep state" keeps getting in the way, I guess.

If he wants to be, he hasn't actually done anything with the powers of the office to try to make it happen, nor even proposed anything which would further it.

 

[MovingPictures]

You are indeed confusing policies and decisions you don't like with actually exceeding his power, as well as levying charges for which there is yet no evidence (and would simply be corruption, not "dictatorship," even if shown to be true).



None of what you said even remotely approaches "dictatorship."

Its not a dictatorship but it definitely shows that Trump is immunized currently from the law.

 

[Rexedgar]

I know. I wasn't responding to the OP.



You said, in response to my post:



I asked for the ways in which he's done that -- pushed the envelope toward exceeding his powers, or toward dictatorship.

See post #23. Idk how my reply got grouped into your request. There are three examples there.

 

[Tres1B]

Ah, let me take a crack at this.

US dictatorship would probably be a pseudo-democracy where the opposition party is seeked after and killed off, the candidates are always chosen by people in power - voters have no say in their options. (This is actually quite like North Korea's "democracy").

The Electoral College's "electors" would effectively always vote in favor of a certain candidate regardless of what their states want, under the guise of "preventing tyrannous leaders".

The 22nd amendment would be abolished, allowing the president to run for life. The Constitution would exist, but be grossly misinterpreted and loop-hole abused, things like "Free Speech isn't Freedom from Consequence, so we can arrest you for what you say regardless", redefining what religion means so they can arrest people such as muslims by declaring islam "not a religion", claiming that "all men being created equal" doesn't mean that all men have equal "roles" in life, with the ideal type of person an Aryan Christian American-Born Straight Male.

Nationalism would run rampant, flags constantly shoved in people's faces, the anthem spammed everywhere, to indoctrinate people into loving the nature of the nation. Anyone who dislikes how the nation is run deemed "Anti-American" and "Unpatriotic" and quickly silenced.

History would be rewritten to make Americans looks like god-like heros, things like the British Monarch are displayed as being just as bad as Nazi Germany, if not even worse. "Manifest Destiny" would mean bringing civilization to the savage American natives, etc. The Red Scare might be reinforced, and really hard this time. Anything any less "Capitalist" than radical corporatism is called communist tyranny.

Did I do good? I'm not claiming the US is necessarily like this, of course.

 

[Harshaw]

Its not a dictatorship but it definitely shows that Trump is immunized currently from the law.

Well, good. You've stepped back from the ledge.

In what way is he "immunized"? You mentioned only two things which would actually be illegal -- skirting campaign laws and the "emoluments clause." Currently, there's no evidence he did either of those things. So how is he "immunized" from the law?

 

[MovingPictures]

Well, good. You've stepped back from the ledge.

In what way is he "immunized"? You mentioned only two things which would actually be illegal -- skirting campaign laws and the "emoluments clause." Currently, there's no evidence he did either of those things. So how is he "immunized" from the law?

Well, that's just bull**** and I'm pretty sure you know that, so I won't play along like you don't.

 

[Harshaw]

See post #23. Idk how my reply got grouped into your request. There are three examples there.

Ah, fair enough.

The attacks on the press, the repetition of alternative facts; the family separation policy, (I think this is a prime example of envelope pushing.) The threat of involving himself in the Justice Department that is investigating his campaign. The people pushed back on the border policy and there was some back-pedaling.

There's nothing in there which shows him pushing the envelope of his power. He may rage against the press, but he hasn't done anything to try to curtail the press. He lies, but every single President lies. He didn't have a "family separation policy"; that it happened was a by-product of his "zero tolerance" policy (all offenders prosecuted instead of the catch-and-release policy of illegal immigrants with children), which is fully within the scope of prosecutorial discretion. The Justice Department is an Executive department over which he, as President, wields complete authority.

You may not LIKE this stuff, and I don't like this stuff, but not a bit of it is outside the normal powers of the President.

You can absolutely make a case that he's a ****ty President. But that's not what we're talking about.

 

[Rexedgar]

Ah, fair enough.



There's nothing in there which shows him pushing the envelope of his power. He may rage against the press, but he hasn't done anything to try to curtail the press. He lies, but every single President lies. He didn't have a "family separation policy"; that it happened was a by-product of his "zero tolerance" policy (all offenders prosecuted instead of the catch-and-release policy of illegal immigrants with children), which is fully within the scope of prosecutorial discretion. The Justice Department is an Executive department over which he, as President, wields complete authority.

You may not LIKE this stuff, and I don't like this stuff, but not a bit of it is outside the normal powers of the President.

You can absolutely make a case that he's a ****ty President. But that's not what we're talking about.

Well, we will have to disagree as far as pushing boundaries. I admit to underestimating Mr. Trump. As to the OP, current events could be a close facsimile to the birth of, let’s call it a more authoritarian government than we are used to.

 

[Harshaw]

Well, that's just bull**** and I'm pretty sure you know that, so I won't play along like you don't.

Sorry, my dude, but there isn't.

There's no evidence that the money paid to Stormy Daniels came from the Trump campaign funds. There's a lot of innuendo, but that's not evidence.

There's no evidence that Trump received any benefit from the US government concerning his hotels, which is what is required for an emoluments clause violation.

 

[Harshaw]

Well, we will have to disagree as far as pushing boundaries. I admit to underestimating Mr. Trump. As to the OP, current events could be a close facsimile to the birth of, let’s call it a more authoritarian government than we are used to.

I don't see where the authority of government has been aggrandized at all. As a libertarian, if I thought it were, I would most definitely call it out.

The tone has changed. But even just this week, the Supreme Court has a delivered a string of blows to government authority, and it has been doing so throughout the spring.

Now, the authoritarian nature of the government is ALREADY far too high. But that was so on January 19, 2017 as well.

 

[Risky Thicket]

You wouldn’t wake up one day and ‘poof’ there is a dictatorship; it’s like cooking live frogs; by the time it’s here the remedy won’t take...........

Coincidentally, a couple of days ago I watched Hitler's People: A Portrait of the Third Reich on Amazon Prime. It is an excellent documentary. I highly recommend it to anyone. Though the film analyzes and explains how ordinary people embraced Hitler, the parallels to what we are seeing and experiencing now are stunning.

Nazis were the minority. Their unquestionable allegiance to Hitler and the growing hatred and violence of the Third Reich is what we think of when we think of Nazi Germany. They did not, however, represent the majority of Germans. Many Germans went along with it until Hitler's dictatorship made it life threatening to do otherwise. As one person put it, "The German people were not vicious, they were indifferent."