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What roles does each gender play in society?

CriticalThought said:
Okay, since the evangelists and conservatives are going to stay a mile away from this thread, I guess I'll have to ask the obvious questions.

The Bible argues that a woman's role in society is to be the submissive helper to her husband, and the man's role in society is to be the leader of his household. Is there merit to this view outside of religion? Does marriage and family crumble if these roles are not upheld?

Evolutionarily speaking, human males went off to hunt and human females stayed behind to look after the children. Are these roles of the male provider and female nurturer now obsolete or are they based in our very biology?
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The Bible speaks about the woman being a helpmate to the man. It doesn't say, guy makes the money, girl stays home and takes care of the kids. I believe thats just the way things normally are because of how women and men are made (IN GENERAL, not saying all men or all women). Women are generally more caring and nuturing and men are generally stronger physically and more of the "provider" type. Having said that, I think being a helpmate to a husband can take on many roles. Whatever "role" a person chooses to fulfil in a marriage and family is great so long as it make the family and marriage work and run efficiently. I think traditionally there are roles, and in my marriage and family, we have fell into those traditional roles for the most part because they work for us. But that doesn't mean that those roles cant change under circumstances that warrant it. For instance, if my husband lost his job and couldnt find work but I could find a job, I would go back to work. If I went back to work, my husband would need to fulfil the role I left behind and would do so gladly because it is what our family NEEDS at that moment in time. In other words, he would still be "providing" for our family.

I dont think a marriage and family will crumble if a guy stays home and the woman works (not moreso than any other marriage and family anyway). Or for that matter, if both parents work.
 
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Tucker Case said:
My wife doesn't believe in gender roles, either....

Well, except for the ones about taking out the garbage, fixing things that break around the house and/or car, mowing the lawn, moving heavy stuff, remodeling, and whatnot.

But she firmly believes all the other gender roles she thinks are BS.


:mrgreen:
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So, who kills the spiders at your house?
 
Winston Smith said:
There is another practical reason, too, for not letting women be in charge. We know from studies that women talk more, which suggests that they have more to say.
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Yes, the world would be a much better place if women just shut up and let the men decide everything.
 
Winston Smith said:
My working hypothesis is that, all things being equal, men tend to be more rational than women. I know I may draw some disapproval with this remark. It's not something I would hold to dogmatically, nor would I expect it to apply in every case. But assuming that both are mature, fully functioning adults, preferably with some education, I think that men generally are less distracted by extraneous issues and are able, if not to make better decisions, then at least to make good decisions quicker.

Just speaking anecdotally, I find that I'm slower to anger or panic than my wife. On the other hand, my reaction can be more extreme once I do reach that point, so I sometimes need her to calm me down. I've seen a couple of relationships where the wife was in charge, one of which was a very close family relationship, and in my opinion there was a lot of wasted energy and frustration resulting from the husband's having to deal with the wife's impulsive decisions after the fact. Again, this is not to say that many men aren't irrational; they are. Mature men, though, are probably more rational more of the time than women.

As to work and career, I think the importance of breastfeeding cannot be overestimated. My wife currently works full-time while I take care of kids and work part-time. She has a position with good benefits and flexibility, so it works and we don't have much of a problem with the feeding issue. Women who aren't so lucky have to rely on formula, which I don't think is an adequate substitute at all. The more studies are done, the more it seems that formula-fed babies are missing out. There may be other inherent problems, but I suppose they're not intractable if both partners agree.

In my family the attitudes are complicated. My wife has always been extremely independent, but she sees her independence as a necessary coping mechanism rather than an end in itself. She'd prefer to be taken care of and is probably less content than I am with the current arrangement. For my part, I'd be happy never to leave the house as long as I could write. I'd prefer to make money at it, but I'd be happy making next to nothing as long as I was published. The plan is for me to take over the provider role eventually, which she thinks will make us both happier. I suspect she'll turn out to be right. Now that I think about it, maybe she's more active in making decisions than I realize. Regardless of who's in what role, there has to be a lot of give and take.
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i have a very hard time with your suppostition that men are more rational than women. i guess that's why the world, with men in charge, is such a peaceful, rational place.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Yes, the world would be a much better place if women just shut up and let the men decide everything.
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No, I'm not saying that. In professional settings or out in the world generally, I often prefer working with women. I just find that they tend to micromanage in personal relationships, which I think can put a lot of stress on a marriage if the woman has the leadership role.
 
liblady said:
i have a very hard time with your suppostition that men are more rational than women. i guess that's why the world, with men in charge, is such a peaceful, rational place.
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After some thought, I don't think it holds true in the world overall. But I still think it's true of marriage or romantic relationships. There's something about that dynamic that brings out certain differences.
 
Tucker Case said:
My wife doesn't believe in gender roles, either....

Well, except for the ones about taking out the garbage, fixing things that break around the house and/or car, mowing the lawn, moving heavy stuff, remodeling, and whatnot.

But she firmly believes all the other gender roles she thinks are BS.


:mrgreen:
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i like your wife.
 
liblady said:
she seems very bright, and willing to overlook certain shortcomings, yes? :2razz:
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She's definitely able to overlook certain "shortcomings", but overlooking something small isn't all that difficult. What's impressive is that she's able to find it on occasion!


And while she may seem bright, the evidence indicates she can't be all that bright. I mean, look at the douche she married!
 
Tucker Case said:
She's definitely able to overlook certain "shortcomings", but overlooking something small isn't all that difficult. What's impressive is that she's able to find it on occasion!


And while she may seem bright, the evidence indicates she can't be all that bright. I mean, look at the douche she married!
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no, it's a testament to you that she even bothers to look for it. :lol:
 
Winston Smith said:
No, I'm not saying that. In professional settings or out in the world generally, I often prefer working with women. I just find that they tend to micromanage in personal relationships, which I think can put a lot of stress on a marriage if the woman has the leadership role.
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Way to generalize broadly across an entire gender. Your wife, and the limited sample of women you dated may do this, but this hardly means that all do. Of course, men are more likely to abuse their wives, which means they should never be trusted with a leadership role.

See what I did there?
 
Winston Smith said:
After some thought, I don't think it holds true in the world overall. But I still think it's true of marriage or romantic relationships. There's something about that dynamic that brings out certain differences.
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dealing with a partner is definitely different than dealing with the public in general. and it's not that women are less rational, it's that men are so oblivious to the facts that we lose our minds trying to communicate with you. ;-)
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Way to generalize broadly across an entire gender. Your wife, and the limited sample of women you dated may do this, but this hardly means that all do. Of course, men are more likely to abuse their wives, which means they should never be trusted with a leadership role.

See what I did there?
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Yeah. But I'm talking about how people behave in mature, healthy relationships. A "normal" man doesn't abuse. I would argue that it's normal for women to over-worry and micromanage.
 
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Winston Smith said:
Yeah. But I'm talking about how people behave in mature, healthy relationships. A "normal" man doesn't abuse, but I would argue that it's normal for women to over-worry and micromanage.
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that's definitely an opinion, though, because who decides how much worry is too much? an argument could be made that men don't worry enough...........
 
liblady said:
dealing with a partner is definitely different than dealing with the public in general. and it's not that women are less rational, it's that men are so oblivious to the facts that we lose our minds trying to communicate with you. ;-)
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I can see that side of it. I think a lot of arguments aren't really about what they're supposedly about, and it frustrates women to have to wait for the men to figure out what's bothering them. Of course, I've tried thinking ahead and figuring it out right away, and that seems to frustrate them, too.
 
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Winston Smith said:
Yeah. But I'm talking about how people behave in mature, healthy relationships. A "normal" man doesn't abuse. I would argue that it's normal for women to over-worry and micromanage.
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You can argue that, but without evidence to support it, it's fallacious.
 
Winston Smith said:
Not fallacious, but anecdotal. Like I said, it's a hypothesis.
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It's an over-generalization. Anecdotes can never be applied generally. Thus, it's not a hypothesis, it's a hypothesis fail.

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Well, I don't want to fight about it. A hypothesis is an idea you form based on observations but before testing or developing a theory. That's all this is.
 
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