What practical solutions can "antiwar" proponents offer?

[Tigerace117]

No.

Yes.

In East Timor in particular the invading forces committed large scale war crimes....with the full approval and support of the United States.

The only difference between these cases is that Indonesia was a valued ally for killing “commies”, and Russia isn’t.

Trying to pretend that Putin is akin to Hitler, rather than simply another run of the mill dictator is ignorant.

 

[Deuce]

I've answered similar questions several times. The people asking those questions are trolling, and they continue trolling.

You're for the war process.

You still haven't answered, further proving my point.

I am against the war process, which is why I am pointing out that Russia should leave Ukraine immediately and this achieves peace. What other solution do you suggest?

 

[Antiwar]

this is the same arrogance of NATO expansion/Ukraine militarization that got us to the brink of nuclear war with Russia
Your way of treating Russia as a non-legitimate security needs has been an utter failure

Of course it is. Look, the guy has Biden's picture for his profile. He's a partisan warmonger. If it were T**** fomenting nuclear war with Russia, the partisan hacks on "both" sides would switch their roles.

If Russia had missiles as close to America as "NATO" does to Russia, they'd change their tune.

 

[Shrink726]

Yes.

In East Timor in particular the invading forces committed large scale war crimes....with the full approval and support of the United States.

The only difference between these cases is that Indonesia was a valued ally for killing “commies”, and Russia isn’t.

Trying to pretend that Putin is akin to Hitler, rather than simply another run of the mill dictator is ignorant.

You have a Ph.D. in whataboutism.

 

[anatta]

I will ask the same question the other guy refuses to answer:
What is there to talk about other than "Are Russian soldiers still shooting Ukrainians?"

yeah. i tend to agree the US has escalated this thing with absolute disregard for any off-ramp by Putin
to the point we are at the brink of nuclear war.. there is plenty to talk about like cease fires,proposed terms..
but the dogs of war are on the roam and i dont think we cant cage them again.

Still some back door channels might stop nukes.. what is there to lose by trying??

 

[Antiwar]

You still haven't answered, further proving my point.

I am against the war process, which is why I am pointing out that Russia should leave Ukraine immediately and this achieves peace. What other solution do you suggest?

I've answered several times before. I know how disingenuous questions work.

You're for the war process.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

"Practical solution"?

I mind my own business.

I await your reply, which will be a reference to the Nazis and Hitler preceding WWII, and I am already yawning in great anticipation.

What you are implying with your "mind my own business" position is that we should allow Russia to conquer or control Ukraine.

Well, my reply is very simple. I'm not okay with allowing Russia to conquer or control Ukraine. I think we should help Ukraine defend itself from Russia's invasion of its territory by supplying Ukraine with the weapons it needs to defend itself.

Ukrainians have the right to be free and to defend themselves from Putin's hostile actions.

 

[Tigerace117]

You have a Ph.D. in whataboutism.

Hate to break it to you but pointing out the fact that your hysterics are meaningless, and that this brutal invasion is much like past brutal invasions the US supported, is not “whataboutism”.

 

[Deuce]

yeah. i tend to agree the US has escalated this thing with absolute disregard for any off-ramp by Putin
to the point we are at the brink of nuclear war.. there is plenty to talk about like cease fires,proposed terms..
but the dogs of war are on the roam and i dont think we cant cage them again.

Still some back door channels might stop nukes.. what is there to lose by trying??

Ahh, proposed terms. There we go. Now we're on to something.

"Russia leaves Ukraine immediately" achieves all objectives, doesn't it? What is your objection? What other terms should be on the table?

 

[anatta]

U.S. docile media repeat the administration’s line that we are not really at war with Russia, but we are.
The administration has used the global financial system as a weapon of economic warfare against Russia.
The proxies in our supposed proxy war include not just Ukrainian troops, but also American technology and American troops.
Ukrainian military’s communications are protected from Russian jamming because they use Elon Musk’s Starlink satellite.
The American government is paying American manufacturers to send state-of-the-art weaponry to Ukraine in order to destroy Russian equipment and kill Russian soldiers. American soldiers train Ukrainians in the use of the HIMARS rocket artillery system.

Biden’s economic warfare might not have beaten Russia, but it’s driving America’s European allies into a recession.
It’s not doing much for Americans, either.

US is overreaching in Ukraine

thread title doesn't even begin to show the depths of our involvement -but it makes the case we are at war against Russia https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/courage-strength-optimism/us-is-overreaching-in-ukraine U.S. docile media repeat the administration’s line that we are...

debatepolitics.com

 

[anatta]

Ahh, proposed terms. There we go. Now we're on to something.
"Russia leaves Ukraine immediately" achieves all objectives, doesn't it? What is your objection? What other terms should be on the table?

you cant stamp your feet and hold your breath until you turn blue demanding the other guy quit the war and expect any results

 

[Shrink726]

yeah. i tend to agree the US has escalated this thing with absolute disregard for any off-ramp by Putin

We have escalated this???

You have to be friggin' kidding me!

We've been incredibly restrained and measured in our response. Perhaps too much so.

 

[anatta]

We have escalated this???
You have to be friggin' kidding me!

familiarize yourself with the constant escalation of quantity and quality of weapons,logistical support, trainers in Ukraine,
open checkbook,and economic warfare against Russia by the USA ( with Europe tagging along)

 

[Antiwar]

familiarize yourself with the constant escalation of quantity and quality of weapons,logistical support, trainers in Ukraine,
open checkbook,and economic warfare against Russia by the USA ( with Europe tagging along)

That guy is another Biden partisan.

 

[ElChupacabra]

this is the same arrogance of NATO expansion/Ukraine militarization that got us to the brink of nuclear war with Russia
Your way of treating Russia as a non-legitimate security needs has been an utter failure

That's an interesting take since the actual act of war was committed by Russia. Invading an independent nation was not the smartest move in trying to deescalate tensions. and now Russia has managed to get two former non aligned nations to join NATO. Russia has acted aggressively in the region prior to Ukraine, so it's not as if there were no precedent to view them as a potential threat.

 

[anatta]

That guy is another Biden partisan.

I dont argue against the poster , i debate their ideas

 

[ElChupacabra]

familiarize yourself with the constant escalation of quantity and quality of weapons,logistical support, trainers in Ukraine,
open checkbook,and economic warfare against Russia by the USA ( with Europe tagging along)

What deterrents do you recommend for nations who decide to invade others is outside of military engagement?

 

[Antiwar]

I dont argue against the poster , i debate their ideas

And their ideas are pure and petty partisan.

 

[anatta]

That's an interesting take since the actual act of war was committed by Russia. Invading an independent nation was not the smartest move in trying to deescalate tensions. and now Russia has managed to get two former non aligned nations to join NATO. Russia has acted aggressively in the region prior to Ukraine, so it's not as if there were no precedent to view them as a potential threat.

start with NATO expansion under Clinton, the predicate forthe war along with promises of NATO for Ukraine and constant militarization of such.
I agree in a very narrow way Russia did the actual invasion (started the war) -but wars have "predicates"

"war is the absolute failure of diplomacy" / further enflaming Russia by expansion,meddling in the Maidan etc etc..are the "predicates

 

[Fishking]

What diplomatic solutions? Russia wants to take over a sovereign country and they're not taking no for an answer.

I just said them. Read it or not. Up to you.

 

[anatta]

What deterrents do you recommend for nations who decide to invade others is outside of military engagement?

the deterrent is not to set up the geopolitics, that caused the war..it's like all these potential items i shortlisted
were just blown by with the attitude Russian security needs are not legitimate.
.so here we are ****ing around with a nuclear power over a country with 0 strategic importance to the USA..

 

[Shrink726]

familiarize yourself with the constant escalation of quantity and quality of weapons,logistical support, trainers in Ukraine,
open checkbook,and economic warfare against Russia by the USA ( with Europe tagging along)

Of course we have. As we should. Russia attempted to invade a neighboring country doing nothing other than minding its own business.

Christ, what part of that is difficult for you to understand?

 

[Cardinal]

I just said them. Read it or not. Up to you.

You said them in the post I replied to? If so, I don't see them.

 

[Fishking]

We have no obligation to improve or maintain Russia's geopolitical interests.

None.

Russia, however, does have the obligation to not invade its neighbors. The reluctance of Russia's neighbors to do what Russia wants is not a legitimate justification for war. Case closed. End of story.

Our message to Putin if he doesn't like NATO expansion should be simply this: tough shit.

And if Putin is upset that countries like Ukraine want to form closer economic, political, legal, and military arrangements with other countries, maybe Putin should stop being asshole about everything and offer a better deal?

So you don't want to actually learn anything and prefer war. Again, got it.

Has it occurred to you that these countries may not want to be neutral?

I don't care.

What you describe as "real diplomatic solutions" is really nothing more than the appeasement of a dictator hell-bent on acquiring the territory of neighboring countries. And this doesn't stop with Ukraine just like it didn't stop Crimea. Putin will just keep pushing and pushing until he has rebuilt a system similar to what the Soviets had in place. We should work with Russia to resolve this situation, but Russia's current demands are totally unreasonable. I don't think we should surrender Ukraine to Putin's demands.

Peace on Russia's terms in this case means that we allow Ukraine to be conquered or controlled by Russia. Have you spoken when the Ukrainians about your plans to throw them to the wolves? Have you considered that maybe they don't want to be under Putin's thumb? Have you considered that maybe they want to maintain their territory and not give it up because Putin demands it?

You think to avoid war we should allow Ukraine to be conquered or controlled by Russia. But that does not sound reasonable to me.

What if Russia was trying to conquer or control our country? Would you advocate simply surrendering to Putin's demands?

Why would you ask that of the Ukrainians?

So you prefer war and lots of dead people and suffering. You don't have an actual solution or answer. You look around of world and see the results of our current style of foreign policies and see all the utter failures and say, "Yes, this is great!"

Got it....let's stick with how we **** up places all over the world.

 

[Fishking]

You said them in the post I replied to? If so, I don't see them.

Normal people would look for the context a comment is coming from before they walk into it and respond out of ignorance.