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What Limits if any should be placed on voting?

SBu

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In the earliest days of our country, the "founders" only allowed land-owners to vote (setting aside the obvious disenfranchisement of blacks and women for the sake of philosophical argument). The idea being, one must have a stake in the country in order to have a say in its direction. Today, the only restrictions are age and citizenship.

Should there be any other restrictions on voting? Would you tweak it in any way? Is the current system too restrictive?
 
Ask a Democrat and they will say everybody in the boarders of the nation (citizen or not) should be able to vote. Ask a Republican only rich white men should be allowed to vote. Both only want what they want for political gain.
 
Should there be any other restrictions on voting?

No.

Just as in term limits, if you need to enact such restrictions to save the people from themselves, then you have a country not worth saving. It's that simple.
 
I don't think we are too restrictive by any stretch of the imagination. That said, I would have no problem supporting letting people like permanent resident aliens voting so long as they are physically present in the US and in status. With integrated government computer systems since 9/11, it shouldn't be that hard to verify the status of people who qualify pretty readily. If that not be the case, then it shouldn't be that hard to to layer on a system that would allow registrars to do that.
 
age and citizenship is perfect
any other restrictions are indefensible in a free country and in the year 2013 as we understand things.
 
age and citizenship is perfect
any other restrictions are indefensible in a free country and in the year 2013 as we understand things.

I would add residence - the coincedence is that they all should appear on a standard, valid, state issued, photo ID.
 
I would add residence - the coincidence is that they all should appear on a standard, valid, state issued, photo ID.
?????

im confused

how are you distinguishing citizenship from residence, what do you mean.
 
So long as you are a legal citizen of the country, reside within the country and are of proper legal age, you should be able to vote and it should be up to you to prove that you are all of these things. Produce your ID and cast your ballot. If it's not important enough to you to be able to prove it, we don't need your vote.
 
age and citizenship is perfect
any other restrictions are indefensible in a free country and in the year 2013 as we understand things.

Just to facilitate some discussion, why is age such a perfect measure? I've met plenty of people under the age of 18 that are well reasoned enough to cast an intelligent ballot. I've also met plenty of people over the age of 18 that cast ballots based of superficial reasons. What is so special about an age?
 
?????

im confused

how are you distinguishing citizenship from residence, what do you mean.

I am saying that to vote one should be able to do so only by presenting proof of identity (photo/signiture), U.S. citizenship, age and current legal residence. Many possess multiple IDs, e.g. students, that could allow voting in the state/district of their campus address (dorm/apt.) and their state/distrcit of actual legal residence. Normally when applying for state issued ID they require surrender/cancellation of any other state's valid ID before they will issue their own, this prevents folks from maintaining multiple current addresses.
 
I am saying that to vote one should be able to do so only by presenting proof of identity (photo/signiture), U.S. citizenship, age and current legal residence. Many possess multiple IDs, e.g. students, that could allow voting in the state/district of their campus address (dorm/apt.) and their state/distrcit of actual legal residence. Normally when applying for state issued ID they require surrender/cancellation of any other state's valid ID before they will issue their own, this prevents folks from maintaining multiple current addresses.

oh i got you now, i didnt understand what you meant

again i only have my own voting experiences to go on and when i vote my name and id are cross checked to the registered voters log form my voting polls so if theres nothign this potential issue already takes care of itself.

as far as requiring ID i would never do that and ill say the same thing i say about it all the time

id neversupport iy unless its under the following conditions:

its free and easily accessible like at schools, post offices, where the voting polls are, SS offices, libraries etc
and as long as other IDs are also accepted, drivers licenses, pass ports, weapon permits, photo college IDs, military IDs etc.

if it doesn't follow that or something similar then id never support because it would be discriminatory
 
Yes. All people who have the temerity to run around not being just like me should be restricted from voting.

Problem solved
 
Just to facilitate some discussion, why is age such a perfect measure? I've met plenty of people under the age of 18 that are well reasoned enough to cast an intelligent ballot. I've also met plenty of people over the age of 18 that cast ballots based of superficial reasons. What is so special about an age?

well if this discussion is opened up it effects basically everything in this country, 18 is the age of legal adulthood and when you have full rights, if we feel this age is wrong then there are a plethora of things that need addressed.

also id be impressed at meeting "plenty" of people under the age of 18 in this county that could do so that weren't simply parroting something else.
I do agree there are plenty over the age that do cast poor ballots based on the subjective opinion of myself but thats meaningless
 
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oh i got you now, i didnt understand what you meant

again i only have my own voting experiences to go on and when i vote my name and id are cross checked to the registered voters log form my voting polls so if theres nothign this potential issue already takes care of itself.

as far as requiring ID i would never do that and ill say the same thing i say about it all the time

id neversupport iy unless its under the following conditions:

its free and easily accessible like at schools, post offices, where the voting polls are, SS offices, libraries etc
and as long as other IDs are also accepted, drivers licenses, pass ports, weapon permits, photo college IDs, military IDs etc.

if it doesn't follow that or something similar then id never support because it would be discriminatory

That solves nothing if you can be registered in multiple locations, often in different states. Obviously one can obtain and renew multiple IDs if they are never checked against others. Your passport is good in all 57 states and contains no current address unless you added it yourself.
 
1.)That solves nothing if you can be registered in multiple locations, often in different states. Obviously one can obtain and renew multiple IDs if they are never checked against others. Your passport is good in all 57 states and contains no current address unless you added it yourself.

again only going off my own voting experiences this cant be done unless a crime or deceit is done.
WHen i registered to vote they knew my residence and where i am to vote and vice versa is also true, if i gave them my residence they told me where to vote and i was on a log.
hell if i go to another voting poll, which is less then 10 minutes away they wont let me vote because they wont have me there list. This is how it works in PA ive discussed this with friends and co-workers. If your name isnt on the list you dont get to vote

one time a buddy of mine almost got screwed when he moved close to a voting date, he couldn't vote at his new polling center he had to go back to the old one, luckily it wasnt far. Next time they hade it fixed and was now on the correct register voting list poll location.

so does it not work like this other places?
people just randomly walk into any polls they want and vote?
how does one register in multiple areas?
how does one register in multiple areas and keep both registers? see story above
57 states?

so im not sure what you mean
 
again only going off my own voting experiences this cant be done unless a crime or deceit is done.
WHen i registered to vote they knew my residence and where i am to vote and vice versa is also true, if i gave them my residence they told me where to vote and i was on a log.
hell if i go to another voting poll, which is less then 10 minutes away they wont let me vote because they wont have me there list. This is how it works in PA ive discussed this with friends and co-workers. If your name isnt on the list you dont get to vote

one time a buddy of mine almost got screwed when he moved close to a voting date, he couldn't vote at his new polling center he had to go back to the old one, luckily it wasnt far. Next time they hade it fixed and was now on the correct register voting list poll location.

so does it not work like this other places?
people just randomly walk into any polls they want and vote?
how does one register in multiple areas?
how does one register in multiple areas and keep both registers? see story above
57 states?

so im not sure what you mean

Example. A student who is registered to vote in NC then goes to college in VA and registers to vote there as well. By either a short commute or absentee ballot they can then vote twice.
 
Example. A student who is registered to vote in NC then goes to college in VA and registers to vote there as well. By either a short commute or absentee ballot they can then vote twice.

no, not unless theres holes in the process or they are breaking the law.

this was the case for my brother when he went to school out of state, i cant remember exactly what happened because it wasnt me but he couldn't register in MD as a student and had to get an absentee ballot and to do so provide why he couldnt vote and where he was and that he was unable to vote where he was

again, just my personal experience, does it work different other places? are there huge holes in the procedures other places?


if so THATS the issue not anything else
 
no, not unless theres holes in the process or they are breaking the law.

this was the case for my brother when he went to school out of state, i cant remember exactly what happened because it wasnt me but he couldn't register in MD as a student and had to get an absentee ballot and to do so provide why he couldnt vote and where he was and that he was unable to vote where he was

again, just my personal experience, does it work different other places? are there huge holes in the procedures other places?


if so THATS the issue not anything else

My point exactly. There is no coordination/uniformity of voting registration/identity thus no practical way to cross check.
 
My point exactly. There is no coordination/uniformity of voting registration/identity thus no practical way to cross check.
no

who says?

in my cases there were cross checks and they worked

im asking you what examples do you have that these check just dont exists?
 
no

who says?

in my cases there were cross checks and they worked

im asking you what examples do you have that these check just dont exists?

See my post #16 in this thread.
 
See my post #16 in this thread.

see my post 17 where this did not hpappen and couldnt happen because of the checks in place

do you have any REAL examples where these checks dont exists
 
In the earliest days of our country, the "founders" only allowed land-owners to vote (setting aside the obvious disenfranchisement of blacks and women for the sake of philosophical argument). The idea being, one must have a stake in the country in order to have a say in its direction. Today, the only restrictions are age and citizenship.

Should there be any other restrictions on voting? Would you tweak it in any way? Is the current system too restrictive?


I have often considered the point of view that franchise should be earned, instead of free.

Military service (a la Heinlein), or some kind of self-sacrificing public service of other sorts, or payment of a special tax on top of all other taxes.... some kind of sacrifice or service showing that you care about the country more than just doing your own thing or lining your own pockets. Maybe if we did that we'd have a better electorate and a better government.

If we did that, franchise should be something that was within anyone's ABILITY to have, as long as they made the required sacrifice or service, excluding no-one from eligibility to vote... as long as they do the necessary act of service/sacrifice. This would avoid creating a permanent ruling class, but tend to exclude the don't-really-cares from the process.

Oh yeah and if you are not eligible to vote, you're not eligible to run for office of course.
 
I have often considered the point of view that franchise should be earned, instead of free.

Military service (a la Heinlein), or some kind of self-sacrificing public service of other sorts, or payment of a special tax on top of all other taxes.... some kind of sacrifice or service showing that you care about the country more than just doing your own thing or lining your own pockets. Maybe if we did that we'd have a better electorate and a better government.

If we did that, franchise should be something that was within anyone's ABILITY to have, as long as they made the required sacrifice or service, excluding no-one from eligibility to vote... as long as they do the necessary act of service/sacrifice. This would avoid creating a permanent ruling class, but tend to exclude the don't-really-cares from the process.

Oh yeah and if you are not eligible to vote, you're not eligible to run for office of course.

I threw out the possibility of a basic education requirement in a different thread. Something like highschool diploma or GED. This would at least superficially guarantee that the electorate has the basic ability to reason. Public schools are also free which I think would satisfy your requirement of accessibility.
 
I threw out the possibility of a basic education requirement in a different thread. Something like highschool diploma or GED. This would at least superficially guarantee that the electorate has the basic ability to reason. Public schools are also free which I think would satisfy your requirement of accessibility.


Not a bad idea to add to the service or sacrifice requirement, though I'd throw in an alternative like "can pass a basic 10th grade exam on politics".
 
I have often considered the point of view that franchise should be earned, instead of free.

Military service (a la Heinlein), or some kind of self-sacrificing public service of other sorts, or payment of a special tax on top of all other taxes.... some kind of sacrifice or service showing that you care about the country more than just doing your own thing or lining your own pockets. Maybe if we did that we'd have a better electorate and a better government.

If we did that, franchise should be something that was within anyone's ABILITY to have, as long as they made the required sacrifice or service, excluding no-one from eligibility to vote... as long as they do the necessary act of service/sacrifice. This would avoid creating a permanent ruling class, but tend to exclude the don't-really-cares from the process.

Oh yeah and if you are not eligible to vote, you're not eligible to run for office of course.

While this (and a bit more) would be great, and would perhaps allow the country to turn things around, it's never going to happen. Unfortunately.
 
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