What is wrong with the left? Upside down worldviews.

[RBIII]

Look, I am the first to admit that some things believed on the left about the groups you mention are wierd, mainly on some campuses. I loathe the notion of “white privilege” as an excuse not to look at class divisions. “Politicaly correct,” after all, was a term the left coined in the 1960s to make fun of ourselves. But just because someone on the left doesn’t, say, believe in an irrational fear of Muslims, it doesn’t mean we are indifferent to the way women or gays might be persecuted in majority Muslim countries. As to Antifa, google “democrats condemn antifa” or some other relevant phrase.

Stand up for your positions. One can support border security without injecting race into the argunent and violating the law as Trump does. You seem to be setting up critics of what might be your positions as absolutist moral tyrants, intolerant straw men that don’t exist in any my liberal world, and I live in Berkeley.

The problem is, the MSM is controlling the lefts narrative, i assume most liberals are reasonable, but the MSM is not portraying it that way ( and this is worldwide). I think the left needs to call out the MSM more, but if you were to do that, you would find out that you too are on the right, as opposed to MSM that controls your narrative.

 

[RBIII]

You didn't answer the question.

My bad, never answered this, it would be same normal, sexist, racist, bigot, homophobic, etc... none of which are true. What is your point? I basically just reiterated by OP.

 

[Nickyjo]

The problem is, the MSM is controlling the lefts narrative, i assume most liberals are reasonable, but the MSM is not portraying it that way ( and this is worldwide). I think the left needs to call out the MSM more, but if you were to do that, you would find out that you too are on the right, as opposed to MSM that controls your narrative.

I think you have it slightly backwards. These days Trump controls the MSM narrative, and they respond to his antics rather than to many of his (in my view) horrible policies. I don’t think they do the left any injustice, unless you mistake idiots like, say Antifa folks for the left. They get the negative coverage they deserve. But the media are pretty good in their coverage of both sides, though they seem disinterested in issues like labor rights and broadcast media have difficulty reporting on complex things like immigration.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I think you have it slightly backwards. These days Trump controls the MSM narrative, and they respond to his antics rather than to many of his (in my view) horrible policies. I don’t think they do the left any injustice, unless you mistake idiots like, say Antifa folks for the left. They get the negative coverage they deserve. But the media are pretty good in their coverage of both sides, though they seem disinterested in issues like labor rights and broadcast media have difficulty reporting on complex things like immigration.

Because they suck ass!...At great cost to the nation!....You need to understand this!....This is important!

 

[uptower]

You either don't understand the influence all these shows have as a collective, or are being disingenuous, like the left does. Those links take me to Trumps twitter feed, i don't get how that's relevant to me saying the left and MSM are all in coordination. He's one man.

Yes the links all go to Trump's twitter feed. This is where the comedians get their material. From the horse's mouth. But then perhaps I'm being unkind to horses.

 

[Nickyjo]

Because they suck ass!...At great cost to the nation!....You need to understand this!....This is important!

The broadcast media is a slave to ratings. Reagan’s deregulation didn’t do much good either, as it gave us people like Limbaugh who have great influence, but hide behind their microphones and never debate anything seriously.

But print media seems to do fine with more complex analysis both parties or down the middle.

 

[RBIII]

I think you have it slightly backwards. These days Trump controls the MSM narrative, and they respond to his antics rather than to many of his (in my view) horrible policies. I don’t think they do the left any injustice, unless you mistake idiots like, say Antifa folks for the left. They get the negative coverage they deserve. But the media are pretty good in their coverage of both sides, though they seem disinterested in issues like labor rights and broadcast media have difficulty reporting on complex things like immigration.

You see, you are being reasonable, and the left will make you pay for this. Even a broke clock is right twice per day, when is the last time you've seen the MSM saying anything positive about the Trump administration? Don't worry ill wait, its been 2 years.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The broadcast media is a slave to ratings. Reagan’s deregulation didn’t do much good either, as it gave us people like Limbaugh who have great influence, but hide behind their microphones and never debate anything seriously.

But print media seems to do fine with more complex analysis both parties or down the middle.

Fail.

 

[RBIII]

Yes the links all go to Trump's twitter feed. This is where the comedians get their material. From the horse's mouth. But then perhaps I'm being unkind to horses.

I have no problem with comedians using his twitter feed to find material, that's natural, but for all of them in the same night to use the exact same joke, is so transparently coordinated, its no surprise that all the MSM echoes each others stories, tone, and narratives. They are not independent, they are in cahoots under the guise of independence. This is a problem.

 

[Nickyjo]

You see, you are being reasonable, and the left will make you pay for this. Even a broke clock is right twice per day, when is the last time you've seen the MSM saying anything positive about the Trump administration? Don't worry ill wait, its been 2 years.

They reported favorably a few days ago on his prison reform issue. Also, on his opening to North Korea a while ago. His dismissal of the cabinet member who got into trouble got him praise. His backtracking on illegal actions towards asylum-seekers and attempts to reunite kids with their families was noted favorably. They publish his more sane tweets as well as the crazy ones. Am sure they would also report favorably if he apologized for insulting so many people.

 

[uptower]

I have no problem with comedians using his twitter feed to find material, that's natural, but for all of them in the same night to use the exact same joke, is so transparently coordinated, its no surprise that all the MSM echoes each others stories, tone, and narratives. They are not independent, they are in cahoots under the guise of independence. This is a problem.

Or that was just Trump's gaffe of the day and the comeback was obvious. And hardly a day goes by without a new one.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Or that was just Trump's gaffe of the day and the comeback was obvious. And hardly a day goes by without a new one.

Maybe we could move on to a different more productive narrative....

Or Not.

 

[uptower]

Those links take me to Trumps twitter feed, i don't get how that's relevant to me saying the left and MSM are all in coordination. He's one man.

He is the President of the United States.

If ever there were a person in the world who was not "one man" it is he. He is not Caesar, Stalin or Kim or Putin or Assad no matter how much he wishes it. First and foremost he represents 350 million people and last of all himself. He should recognize this.

 

[jnug]

That’s it. Tell me what I believe. Then attack me for believing it. A tidy logic.

Want me to rant on how conservatives are racist, worship money, couldn’t care less about the environment, love torture, and believe America can do no wrong, and whose **** doesn’t stink?

I don't know if anybody else has noticed. The stridency from the Right has gone entirely off the cliff edge as Trump's chaos presidency begins to work its way up to his neckline headed for his ears. Trump is close to drowning in his own self made cesspool and it appears that EVERYBODY including his most ardent supporters is noticing it.

How much of that OP thread starter full of arbitrary notions of positions from the Left is out of some Right wing silo with no doors or windows that also happens to be chock full of adoring Donald followers.

 

[Nemiroff]

Border security = racist
Nationalism = unpatriotic
Christianity = homophobic
Islam = A okay
Male masculinity = toxic
Women adopting masculine traits = progress
Families over career = sexist
Career over family = progress
Gender = Social Construct
Truth = "My Truth"
Beauty = Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner
Slut walk = Progress



What is the problem? How do you exist believing all of these things at the same time?

IMO the left would have no power if it wasn't for the media, key reason, they don't want kids, so their numbers dwindle every year. Couple that with the medias loss of power with their constructed and disingenuous narratives, and the emergence of the internet, it may really be over. Unless they start fighting with ideas instead of censorship.

The reason for your confusion is because most of those equations are wrong.

Border security is fine. Name one mainstream left winger promoting open borders? We have rules regarding migrants and refugees. Refugees also have international laws and standards. Ignoring our own laws because of the race of the refugees is racist... also inhumane.


Nationalism is not patriotism. I love my country but I wouldnt sacrifice our people for our nation. That's fascism. That is bad. I am a patriot, I am not a nationalist.


Christianity is homophobic. So is islam. No one on the left is claiming Islam is great. They are saying people should be free to worship their own faith within the laws as per the constitution. Something Christian's seem to forget when it comes to anyone who isn't Christian.


I think those are enough for now. Your not arguing against liberal ideas, your arguing against a strawman propaganda caricature of liberals.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I don't know if anybody else has noticed. The stridency from the Right has gone entirely off the cliff edge as Trump's chaos presidency begins to work its way up to his neckline headed for his ears. Trump is close to drowning in his own self made cesspool and it appears that EVERYBODY including his most ardent supporters is noticing it.

How much of that OP thread starter full of arbitrary notions of positions from the Left is out of some Right wing silo with no doors or windows that also happens to be chock full of adoring Donald followers.

Trump was always transitory....the Arguments of the Rebellion will live on.....it is the duty of all just people to give them a fair hearing.

However many of those as can be found this deep into this Dark Age.

We used to be better.

 

[distraff]

Border security = racist
Nationalism = unpatriotic
Christianity = homophobic
Islam = A okay
Male masculinity = toxic
Women adopting masculine traits = progress
Families over career = sexist
Career over family = progress
Gender = Social Construct
Truth = "My Truth"
Beauty = Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner
Slut walk = Progress



What is the problem? How do you exist believing all of these things at the same time?

IMO the left would have no power if it wasn't for the media, key reason, they don't want kids, so their numbers dwindle every year. Couple that with the medias loss of power with their constructed and disingenuous narratives, and the emergence of the internet, it may really be over. Unless they start fighting with ideas instead of censorship.

Here is me:
Border Security = Ok, but illegals lower prices and do jobs Americans don't want
Nationalism = Blind loyalty very selfish, weakens alliances, patriotism taken a bit too far
Christianity = homophobic, lots of verses to back this one up
Islam = Somewhat ok in moderate form, bad in literalist form
Male masculinity = toxic in excess and when used to harm others
Women adopting masculine traits = Progress, because people can be who they want
Families over career = Impractical in expensive modern economy and overpopulated world
Career over family = Great if you want to be rich
Gender = Social Construct, and sex = biological
Truth = "My Truth" in the case of morality because objective morality is unproven
Beauty = Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner, or in the eye of the beholder
Slut walk = Sex isn't bad when done safely

 

[Evilroddy]

Border security = racist
Nationalism = unpatriotic
Christianity = homophobic
Islam = A okay
Male masculinity = toxic
Women adopting masculine traits = progress
Families over career = sexist
Career over family = progress
Gender = Social Construct
Truth = "My Truth"
Beauty = Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner
Slut walk = Progress



What is the problem? How do you exist believing all of these things at the same time?

IMO the left would have no power if it wasn't for the media, key reason, they don't want kids, so their numbers dwindle every year. Couple that with the medias loss of power with their constructed and disingenuous narratives, and the emergence of the internet, it may really be over. Unless they start fighting with ideas instead of censorship.

RBIII:

The list which you offered in Post #1 is a charicature of the most radical positions some people on the extremist margins of left take. The list represents the positions of the most radical leftists possible and its items are the ones advanced by the most radical radicals in each issue group. Most people who consider themselves left-leaning don't hold such radical positions and would probably oppose anyone trying to advance such a platform. Most liberals are concerned with balancing the power of business with the state, moderating the free market to achieve more social fairness rather than just ruthless efficiency, healthcare reform, funding better education programmes, progressive tax reform, responsible environmental care and effective enforcement of environmental standards, pro-worker labour policies, limiting militarism and upholding the Rule of Law. The list you have made is mostly of fringe issues the extreme radical leftists and the cooperating right wing opponents have built up as a giant political canard for political purposes. They are not very practical positions taken in their entirety and few leftists actually support such extreme positions in my experience.

So rather than creating a faux platform which few leftists would support in its totality and then use that false construct as a club to beat and demonise leftists, why not debate the issues on your list point by point here and find out what people of all political stripes really think about the issues close to their political hearts. Incidently I am a centrist politically and don't necessarily subscribe to all leftist ideas and aspirations, but some of their real ideas have merit if viewed without politically tinted eye-glasses.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[beefheart]

This is laughable, you don't know me, like i said, instead of battling ideas you try and diagnose me, like y'all do everyone else, which is why you will continue to lose. It's all good, enjoy your future losses, unless you have something intelligent to say. I've provided evidence for why i say the things i say, you have not.

I know you by what you post. And by what you posted, its pretty easy to diagnose you.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Please, elaborate. You probably wont though, enjoy your future losses.

Your OP.

Next question, please.

 

[Deuce]

Buddy, you have yet to actually dispute what i have said. If you would like to, we can proceed. If not, enjoy your future loses.

You invented a belief set, it doesn’t apply to me in the first place.

 

[OlNate]

Border security = racist
Nationalism = unpatriotic
Christianity = homophobic
Islam = A okay
Male masculinity = toxic
Women adopting masculine traits = progress
Families over career = sexist
Career over family = progress
Gender = Social Construct
Truth = "My Truth"
Beauty = Bruce "Caitlyn" Jenner
Slut walk = Progress



What is the problem? How do you exist believing all of these things at the same time?

IMO the left would have no power if it wasn't for the media, key reason, they don't want kids, so their numbers dwindle every year. Couple that with the medias loss of power with their constructed and disingenuous narratives, and the emergence of the internet, it may really be over. Unless they start fighting with ideas instead of censorship.

Super bestest truthest goodest hugest post ever. All DP lefties, I suspect you've all changed your ideologies and will, along side me, be voting for RBIII as the next president of the universe, for life. :roll:

Let me see if I can help you out here:

Border security = essential, but should be carried out with compassion
Nationalism = self defeating in a global economy
Christianity = not homophobic...some Christians, though, good grief!
Islam = A okay <- Can't argue with that. But then again I'm not a chicken **** Islamophobe either.
Male masculinity = the only kind of masculinity, per the dictionary, which certainly has toxic elements, just like everything else when allowed to run unchecked
Women adopting masculine traits = none of my, or your, ****ing business
Families over career = sexist (if forced)
Career over family = none of my, or your, ****ing business
Gender = none of my, or your, ****ing business
Truth = Truth
Beauty = in the eye of the beholder
Slut walk = exercising 1A rights therefore none of my, or your, ****ing business

That's my best crack at your list, but I will put the disclaimer here: That's what it is for me. I don't claim to speak for anyone else, as I'm sure you'd get different answers from everyone you ask. Which is why generalization is the quickest and best way to make an ass of one's self.

Honestly, what did you hope to accomplish with this eloquent contribution?

 

[Hari Seldon]

did the democrats gain as many seats as the GOP did in 1994? IIRC the GOP picked up over 50 congressional seats and 8 senate seats

That is true. They did real well. Doesn't mean this mid term wasn't a win for the Dems.

 

[TurtleDude]

That is true. They did real well. Doesn't mean this mid term wasn't a win for the Dems.

Never said it wasn't, I was merely correcting an erroneous claim-this midterm was not near the shellacking that the Dems suffered in 1994.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Never said it wasn't, I was merely correcting an erroneous claim-this midterm was not near the shellacking that the Dems suffered in 1994.

Not sure why you aimed it at me. I never claimed it was equal to 1994. I was just pointing out to RB it sure wasn't a loss.