What is a man? A response to Gillette

[calamity]

Ive already expressed why this is a problem...do you still have trouble reading.

And if it is your implication that I am an asshole...I think we have cleared that up. Im not an asshole...Im a son of a bitch. Theres a difference.

It's not a problem. But, you did successfully express that there is not much of a difference.

 

[VanceMack]

It's not a problem. But, you did successfully express that there is not much of a difference.

Oh no...the difference is pretty massive actually. But I could see why you have a hard time seeing it.

 

[calamity]

Dumbest most off topic partisan hack thing one could possibly say on this topic.

Your failure to understand how the Right's demand for a wall applies to the ridiculous comment below does not make it off topic.

Please. The race/culture/gender wars are THE ideological base of the New Left. You can't spin this onto Republicans.

But, it does demonstrate cognitive dissonance.

 

[calamity]

Oh no...the difference is pretty massive actually. But I could see why you have a hard time seeing it.

It's only a problem for men who lack a sense of self-worth and suffer from serious insecurity issues. It's a lot like those guys who freak out when boys kiss each other: a threatening moment perhaps for those who have their doubts.

 

[Neomalthusian]

And, being an asshole is the cornerstone of conservatism.

Being a hyper-partisan hack doesn’t add to the discussion.

 

[calamity]

Being a hyper-partisan hack doesn’t add to the discussion.

Then don't be one.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Then don't be one.

I’m not being one. Read your own last few posts.

 

[calamity]

I’m not being one. Read your own last few posts.

I disagree.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Your failure to understand how the Right's demand for a wall

How is this topic about a wall? The topic is not about a wall. Or Trump. Or the Republican Party.

 

[Mach]

Please. The race/culture/gender wars are THE ideological base of the New Left. You can't spin this onto Republicans.

So is that what you're calling efforts to end and limit the contribution of government to systemic racism, civil rights, women's rights, LGBT rights, peoples with disabilities rights?

You guys are really fighting equal rights? Can you just tell me this plainly rather than hiding behind opposition to a Gillette commercial or "fine people on both sides"?

 

[Fishking]

It's so stupid, because Gillette ad never said men weren't any of those things,. They didn't say anything about all men. They said things about how women are treated. And women are still treated like **** in large numbers. There is no denying that.

the only people that are upset about this are the mysogynist pigs that want to rape women, beat women, abuse women, treat them like ****, use them, pay them less, and not respect them in the workplace. Because that's what the ad was about, a message for the men that treat women this way. There is no denying that this is still a problem and still occurs systematically, even in 2019

Man people are such assholes

Those are some really strong feelings you're feeling. You want a juice box?

 

[Fishking]

Culture and gender wars nonsense still polling well with Trump's base?

Haven't been paying attention to college campuses or just modern media lately, I see.

 

[VanceMack]

It's only a problem for men who lack a sense of self-worth and suffer from serious insecurity issues. It's a lot like those guys who freak out when boys kiss each other: a threatening moment perhaps for those who have their doubts.

Woah...dood...how did your homosexuality become an issue here all of a sudden?

Nah...see...the difference is that an "asshole" is just...well...an asshole. To pretty much everyone. A "son of a bitch" is usually PERCEIVED as an asshole...the the douchebags he is responding to.

 

[Deuce]

You can try, but you’ll look like a moron. Class/culture/race/sex battles are the cornerstone of progressive politics.

And yet, this very thread not posted by a progressive.

 

[Neomalthusian]

So is that what you're calling efforts to

Is what what I'm calling efforts to... (bla bla bla)?

end and limit the contribution of government to systemic racism

What is that? What are you talking about?

You guys are really fighting equal rights?

No. And who is "you guys?"

Can you just tell me this plainly rather than hiding behind opposition to a Gillette commercial?

I'm not "opposed to the Gillette commercial but I can understand why some people were ruffled by it.

I'm not sure what it is you want me to tell you plainly, but what I have said before and will say again is that discrimination, prejudice and the "-isms" exist and are bad and should be opposed but that does not mean certain left-wing narratives and the way these concepts are discussed in academia, activist circles, and some of the media are authoritative or helpful.

Some approaches to opposing racism/sexism/etc. are better than others. Some approaches insist on continuing to divide people into categories, generalize some of them as bad oppressors and others as oppressed victims, and use these caricatures as a club with which to try to assert power over, marginalize, and/or silence others, as well as to promote a certain political agenda and/or party. Just because a person opposes a particular narrative or ideological approach to these issues doesn't make them an automatic racist, sexist, bigoted Republicans. To think like that is to be a blind tribalist follower.

 

[calamity]

Woah...dood...how did your homosexuality become an issue here all of a sudden?

Nah...see...the difference is that an "asshole" is just...well...an asshole. To pretty much everyone. A "son of a bitch" is usually PERCEIVED as an asshole...the the douchebags he is responding to.

I'm not the one freaking out over a video. :roll:

 

[VanceMack]

I'm not the one freaking out over a video. :roll:

Since when is responding to a thread on a debate site 'freaking out'?

 

[Mach]

Is what what I'm calling efforts to... (bla bla bla)?

I quoted your response, how can you be confused.

. The race/culture/gender wars are THE ideological base of the New Left. You can't spin this onto Republicans.

So cite the mainstream Democratic party platforms (could be of prominent candidates I suppose too), that push "race, culture, and gender wars" as their ideological base.



Some approaches to opposing racism/sexism/etc. are better than others. Some approaches insist on continuing to divide people into categories, generalize some of them as bad oppressors and others as oppressed victims, and use these caricatures as a club with which to try to assert power over, marginalize, and/or silence others, as well as to promote a certain political agenda and/or party. Just because a person opposes a particular narrative or ideological approach to these issues doesn't make them an automatic racist, sexist, bigoted Republicans. To think like that is to be a blind tribalist follower.[/QUOTE]

 

[Neomalthusian]

I quoted your response, how can you be confused.

So cite the mainstream Democratic party platforms (could be of prominent candidates I suppose too), that push "race, culture, and gender wars" as their ideological base.

I don't see why it has to be specific examples from mainstream Democratic Party platforms or major candidates for what I said to be obvious, but for example one could look at all the attempts made to characterize Trump and/or by extension a huge number of the people who support him as being "sexist, racist, homophobic, islamophobic, ___ist, ___ophobic, ___ist..." and on and on.

More broadly, feminism and radical feminism are associated with being left wing, not right wing. Critical Race Theory is associated with being left wing, not right wing. These ideologies and sociological theories inherently divide people into groups based on certain identity characteristics and pit them against one another.

It just blinks reality to try to allege that it's somehow the right wing that is actively trying to perpetuate this-identity-group-vs.-that-identity-group battles.

 

[Mach]

I don't see why it has to be specific examples from mainstream Democratic Party platforms or major candidates for what I said to be obvious, but for example one could look at all the attempts made to characterize Trump and/or by extension a huge number of the people who support him as being "sexist, racist, homophobic, islamophobic, ___ist, ___ophobic, ___ist..." and on and on.

Which policy? You didn't quote any, because there aren't any? Or because you don't know of any?
Gillette is a private company, you do understand that right?

More broadly, feminism and radical feminism are associated with being left wing, not right wing. Critical Race Theory is associated with being left wing, not right wing. These ideologies and sociological theories inherently divide people into groups based on certain identity characteristics and pit them against one another.

Which policies were Democrats pushing that reflect this though? Are you saying Republicans oppose equal rights for women, LGBT, etc.?

 

[Neomalthusian]

Which policy? You didn't quote any, because there aren't any? Or because you don't know of any?
Gillette is a private company, you do understand that right?


Which policies were Democrats pushing that reflect this though? Are you saying Republicans oppose equal rights for women, LGBT, etc.?

It’s not even clear what you’re asking. I didn’t “quote a policy?” What am I an insurance broker now?

My point is simple. Liberals cannot honestly attempt to claim that it’s conservatives, not they, who are fomenting a sense of struggle between races/classes/sexes.

 

[Candyman]

The way I see it the Gillette ad was simply saying don't be an asshole and be a good role model to your kids and others. Not a bad message in an era where being an asshole is encouraged by some.

 

[Mach]

The way I see it the Gillette ad was simply saying don't be an asshole and be a good role model to your kids and others. Not a bad message in an era where being an asshole is encouraged by some.

I agree, not a bad message.

Some people don't like that message apparently. Maybe they are as holes and bad role models and hate being reminded of their failings?

 

[SoCal]

I found it insulting that someone at Gillette thought that I needed to see their message. I'm sure most men feel the same way.

It seems like a funny way to sell razors. Perhaps they forgot what their business is.

I'm going back to double edged safety razors. Merkur Futur safety razors from Germany are 100% machined stainless steel, fully adjustable, and will last you a lifetime...

Why do men think a video pointing out some of the great things they do is insulting? Do you think women should be insulted by a video pointing out all the amazing things they do? Or does it come down to the only two ways conservatives view the world, 'winners' and losers'.

I've just started getting a straight razor shave before I get my haircut by a 78 year old Lebanese barber who started when he turned 15. I was leery of getting shaved by 78 year old with shaky hands, but I live life on the edge No nicks yet...

 

[Mr Person]

"What is a man?"

For starters, someone who is not made to feel emasculated because a commercial on TV asked other men not to be assholes. I'd say that's a pretty good starting point if we're talking about what makes a man traditionally masculine.