What Has America Become

[Arcana XV]

This is after all an internet forum. Any media source is completely not to be trusted, any academic source is completely not to be trusted, any government source is completely not to be trusted, but spam e-mail contains all unquestionable, universal truth.

Oh.

Well, that explains it. I guess the lack of footnotes and endless references threw me off for a second. :lol:

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

:rofl

At least, when someone calls me a socialist I actually know what the word means. Did you see the retard in the article calling "progressives" commie-socialists? What the heck is WRONG with these people??? Did they not study political science in school? And if they didn't, what the hell are they doing writing about the subject??

Gah.

Sweetheart, they don't even know what a progressive is, much less what socialism is all about.

It's not entirely their fault. Our schools hardly educate anymore, our news networks hardly report anymore, and our politicians have traded in leadership for power-grubbing.

They end up supplementing their education and news with blogs, and their desire for leadership with talk show hosts. They do it because they're angry and confused, and because the blogs and hosts are so good at pretending to be angry and pretending to have the antidote to the confusion.

Welcome to perception management.

 

[Arcana XV]

Gosh you're excitable.......

Nah, just have very low tolerance for this sort of useless populism.

and OK...I'll try really really hard not to "fall for your crap"...

So, you DO have the ability to question what you read on the internet. There's hope for you yet.

 

[allsogreat]

Oh.

Well, that explains it. I guess the lack of footnotes and endless references threw me off for a second. :lol:

Nah...it was the big words and the thoughtful comparison of conflicting idea's that threw you off...

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

I can't believe anyone would actually give any value whatsoever to this particular point. This is probably the most idiotic point in the entire article. How anyone can compare a tiny 250km long border between two countries that are barely speaking to each other, one of which actively keeps its citizens from getting OUT, with the endless 3000+km long border between the US and Mexico is really beyond my comprehension.

I was wondering if anyone was going to make that point.

 

[Arcana XV]

Sweetheart, they don't even know what a progressive is, much less what socialism is all about.

It's not entirely their fault. Our schools hardly educate anymore, our news networks hardly report anymore, and our politicians have traded in leadership for power-grubbing.

They end up supplementing their education and news with blogs, and their desire for leadership with talk show hosts. They do it because they're angry and confused, and because the blogs and hosts are so good at pretending to be angry and pretending to have the antidote to the confusion.

Welcome to perception management.

I guess it just me makes wonder if the people who try to sell this tripe to others ever travel outside the US. Do they actually know how things work in those other countries they keep claiming the US is turning into? As things stand, the US is still the land of the free by comparison. You still have all the freedoms that matter when they are being seriously curbed elsewhere in the West. Try and look at the freedom of speech laws in most of Europe (hint: they're a freaking joke), or what places like France mean by "freedom of religion" when they start banning religous clothing in public places.

 

[allsogreat]

I was wondering if anyone was going to make that point.

The point really is, that it's ironic that we can secure the border of a foreign country, half a world away, against armed combatants (expending great numbers of dollars and man power) when we can't/won't secure our southern border from unarmed invaders who are simply dissatisfied with their own country and it's economy. Resulting in great cost to us to educate and provide health care for them....Our solutions in the past seem to have been to legitimize their their illegal entry......

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

The point is there is a will to control the Korean border but none here to control ours. Don't take the point literally but look at the actual lack of action that is occurring.

What is it about ILLEGAL that some do not seem to understand?

No, the point is that it is so much easier to control such a short border than it is to control a border that is thousands of miles long.

Also, think about the fact that there are more troops on the Korean border than exist in the whole of the United States military. More South Korean troops are committed there than we have active-duty members of our own U.S. Army.

The only reason they're able to secure it thusly, aside from having more bodies to throw at the problem, is because it's so short.

 

[Arcana XV]

Nah...it was the big words and the thoughtful comparison of conflicting idea's that threw you off...

Actually, no. It's the actual knowledge that the comparisons being drawn are total and complete bull**** that made me wonder what the guy who wrote that article was smoking at the time. When you all start getting arrested, thrown in jail and stripped of your civic rights for the crime of uttering unpopular ideas out loud in your country then maybe he'll start having the semblance of a point.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

The point really is, that it's ironic that we can secure the border of a foreign country, half a world away, against armed combatants (expending great numbers of dollars and man power) when we can't/won't secure our southern border from unarmed invaders who are simply dissatisfied with their own country and it's economy. Resulting in great cost to us to educate and provide health care for them....Our solutions in the past seem to have been to legitimize their their illegal entry......

Aside from the obvious point I just made about how many troops are tied up along the DMZ versus how many troops we have in total, it isn't that we can't secure our southern border, it's that we're unwilling to.

For starters, we aren't willing to create the kind of guest worker programs that would all but completely eliminate the flood of illegals across the border. For some reason, as a nation, we refuse to admit that we simply can't create a completely secure border that is thousands of miles long, and that we have to instead remove the advantage to sneaking across. This seems to be a completely foreign concept to many people.

In addition, enough businesses and businesspeople have come to rely on illegal, under-the-table employment that Congress is forced to pretend to be doing something while actually doing nothing. That's why you'll get saber-rattling about fences and National Guard deployments, but not actual solutions to the problem.

 

[winston53660]

No, the point is that it is so much easier to control such a short border than it is to control a border that is thousands of miles long.

Also, think about the fact that there are more troops on the Korean border than exist in the whole of the United States military. More South Korean troops are committed there than we have active-duty members of our own U.S. Army.

The only reason they're able to secure it thusly, aside from having more bodies to throw at the problem, is because it's so short.

I also think that being at war with N Korea might have something to with it. And the N Koreans penchant for shooting first ask questions later in patrolling the DMZ. I'd also bet that any N Korean the can make it to the south would be more than welcome.

 

[allsogreat]

When you all start getting arrested, thrown in jail and stripped of your civil rights for the crime of uttering unpopular ideas out loud in your country then maybe he'll start having the semblance of a point.

Seriously, seriously....what does what you just said have to do with the article......is someone on here going to get arrested, have their civil rights taken from them, or thrown in jail....for their unpopular idea's? Please clarify

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

The United States is becoming a "Progressive" nation, which means it's regressig to a time when the elites could have roast peasant for dinner, and baked Alaskans for dessert.

It's now a time when men are once again judged on the color of their skin, not the contents of their heart. The Justice Department now has a policy that precludes prosecuting black men who commit race based crimes against white victims, and will even dismiss convictions already obtained.

Everyone's children are being robbed to provide perfectly useless make-work jobs for politically favored groups today.

Massive environmental crises are exploited to promote political agendas, and those crises are deliberately exacerbated to enhance the sense of crisis. All so the President can make speeches touting "clean energy" and promoting his economy-destroying Cap and Tax plan what will do nothing to reduce the amount of CO2 in the air but do wonders for the bank accounts of very specific groups of "Progressives".

This land is no longer the land of the free, it's the land of the freebie.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

I also think that being at war with N Korea might have something to with it. And the N Koreans penchant for shooting first ask questions later in patrolling the DMZ. I'd also bet that any N Korean the can make it to the south would be more than welcome.

I avoided mentioning that painfully obvious fact so as to avoid a discussion of how we should go to war with Mexico, or of how we should establish our own DMZ and shoot all trespassers, but yeah. :lol:

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

No, the point is that it is so much easier to control such a short border than it is to control a border that is thousands of miles long.

Also, think about the fact that there are more troops on the Korean border than exist in the whole of the United States military. More South Korean troops are committed there than we have active-duty members of our own U.S. Army.

The only reason they're able to secure it thusly, aside from having more bodies to throw at the problem, is because it's so short.

No. The real issue is that both sides of the Korean border want the border closed.

Neither government having authority over the US-Mexico border want it secured.

If the US wanted the Mexican border closed, that border would be closed. It's not hard to do with modern technology. The length of the border has little importance, and merely increases the cost of control. The massive protests by the Invaders against effective border control highlight how well they're aware the ease with which the border can be controlled if we wanted.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

The United States is becoming a "Progressive" nation, which means it's regressig to a time when the elites could have roast peasant for dinner, and baked Alaskans for dessert.

It's now a time when men are once again judged on the color of their skin, not the contents of their heart. The Justice Department now has a policy that precludes prosecuting black men who commit race based crimes against white victims, and will even dismiss convictions already obtained.

Everyone's children are being robbed to provide perfectly useless make-work jobs for politically favored groups today.

Massive environmental crises are exploited to promote political agendas, and those crises are deliberately exacerbated to enhance the sense of crisis. All so the President can make speeches touting "clean energy" and promoting his economy-destroying Cap and Tax plan what will do nothing to reduce the amount of CO2 in the air but do wonders for the bank accounts of very specific groups of "Progressives".

This land is no longer the land of the free, it's the land of the freebie.

Wow, how many pages of the play-book did you have to plagarize to put together a post entirely of cliches, dramatic oversimplifications and outright fabrications? :lol:

 

[Arcana XV]

The point is there is a will to control the Korean border but none here to control ours. Don't take the point literally but look at the actual lack of action that is occurring.

What is it about ILLEGAL that some do not seem to understand?

I think you're wrong. There IS a will to control the border. It's just not logistically feasible because it's so LONG. Not just that, but the fact that the North Korean government keep their citizens hostage inside the country, something the Mexican government does not do, sort of invalidates the comparison.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

No. The real issue is that both sides of the Korean border want the border closed.

Keep reading, I beat you to it. Aside from that, you can't just ignore the fact that the US-Mexico border is over 10 times longer than the DMZ, which sort of makes any kind of comparison dishonest at best. :lol:

If the US wanted the Mexican border closed, that border would be closed. It's not hard to do with modern technology. The length of the border has little importance, and merely increases the cost of control. The massive protests by the Invaders against effective border control highlight how well they're aware the ease with which the border can be controlled if we wanted.

We're not going to do it with technology. If we do it at all, we'll do it by removing the incentive to cross illegally.

 

[Arcana XV]

Seriously, seriously....what does what you just said have to do with the article......is someone on here going to get arrested, have their civil rights taken from them, or thrown in jail....for their unpopular idea's? Please clarify

Gladly.

From the article in question:

We still have freedom of speech, but only if we are being politically correct.

The reality in many European countries: Some politically incorrect speech will ACTUALLY get you arrested.

 

[1069]

Whenever I see this thread title - for some reason - I think of Kermit singing NIN's "Hurt"

I can't decide if this is worse than Johnny Cash singing it.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

I think you're wrong. There IS a will to control the border. It's just not logistically feasible because it's so LONG. Not just that, but the fact that the North Korean government keep their citizens hostage inside the country, something the Mexican government does not do, sort of invalidates the comparison.

Nonsense.

Nothing more logisitically simple than using airplanes to seed the US side of the border with anti-personnel mines.

Nothing complicated about using aircraft to patrol the border and using the United States Army to repel incursions, with deadly force if necessary.

No, historically, there's nothing difficult or complex about restricting the border flow to accepted control points.

What's lacking is the will to do the job properly.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Keep reading, I beat you to it. Aside from that, you can't just ignore the fact that the US-Mexico border is over 10 times longer than the DMZ, which sort of makes any kind of comparison dishonest at best. :lol:

No, no dishonest on my side. I'm not one of those lying that it's impossible to control the border. Not you, but the politicians and spokesholes promoting their anti-American pro-Invader agenda.

The border CAN be sealed to a degree of certitude that would satisfy the most rabid xenophobe. And controlling the border is the first necessary step to take to remove the Invaders from the United States. Right now all anti-Invasion efforts are doomed to be no more effective than the bailing bucket on the Titanic.

We're not going to do it with technology. If we do it at all, we'll do it by removing the incentive to cross illegally.

Well, we'll have to disagree on that first bit. It's not like I expect this government to do it's duty and start patrolling the border in a meaningful way. As far as removing the incentive to cross illegally goes, you're right. Start punishing the employers and the enbablers with serious financial burdens and jail time, and the incentive to invade will decline.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Nothing more logisitically simple than using airplanes to seed the US side of the border with anti-personnel mines.

Yeah, that's great, let's seed our side of the border with devices which don't check your nationality or legal status or even your species before blowing you to pieces.

Nothing complicated about using aircraft to patrol the border and using the United States Army to repel incursions, with deadly force if necessary.

The United States military is prohibited by law from conducting law enforcement activities on domestic soil, and the "incursions" you're speaking of are civilian, not military, which makes it a law enforcement activity.

No, historically, there's nothing difficult or complex about restricting the border flow to accepted control points.

You're right, all we have to do is make it safer and more practical to do it legally.

What's lacking is the will to do the job properly.

Yep. As a nation, we seem to be split between the will to do nothing and the will to start a bloodbath.

Nonsense.

I agree, you're most definitely spouting nonsense.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

No, no dishonest on my side.

Comparing a military-controlled border less than a tenth the length of ours, with more troops on it than we have in the whole of our active armed forces, is most certainly dishonest.

The border CAN be sealed to a degree of certitude that would satisfy the most rabid xenophobe. And controlling the border is the first necessary step to take to remove the Invaders from the United States. Right now all anti-Invasion efforts are doomed to be no more effective than the bailing bucket on the Titanic.

It can, but not given the current economic and legal conditions. We have to change the way we look at border security.

 

[Arcana XV]

Nonsense.

Nothing more logisitically simple than using airplanes to seed the US side of the border with anti-personnel mines.

Nothing complicated about using aircraft to patrol the border and using the United States Army to repel incursions, with deadly force if necessary.

No, historically, there's nothing difficult or complex about restricting the border flow to accepted control points.

What's lacking is the will to do the job properly.

Oh. :shock:

I'm sorry, I didn't realize what you want is to actually declare war on Mexico, because that's what it'll take to be able to put all of that into practice.

Well, it's your party. Carry on. Go get'em invading forces! :gunner: