What Has America Become

[Conservative]

Randal, really, fawn over the rich, screw the working man/the poor? Are you serious? The only one doing that is the Federal Govt. who relies on creating dependence and victims. You really need to do better research. What I see from you is jealousy and class envy buying what you are told by the media and the leftwing. You need to think a little more and verify the rhetoric. This economy we have isn't a zero sum game where someone wins and someone loses. What is keeping you from becoming that rich person you seem to hate? My bet it has a lot to do with attitude.

 

[Conservative]

Orion, Only a true socialist would believe that allowing anyone to keep what they earned is corporate socialism. The only greed out there is your govt. and apparently a President that I didn't vote for. Name for me that spending on corporate socialism you are talking about? Why is it liberals always talk about paying for tax cuts, paying for private sector growth and then never pay for the programs they propose that increases the debt, destroys incentive, and creates greater dependence. Maybe that is the payment you are looking for.

How anyone can say the Democrats are better for fiscal responsibility with all this massive spending is beyond me. That simply isn't true but is spoken by the truly brainwashed.

 

[Conservative]

Mega, I spent 35 years in the private sector and have seen leadership which I truly understand. Leadership is about accepting responsibility and there is no acceptance of responsibility by this President. A good leader delegates authority but understands you cannot delegate responsibility. I am still waiting for you or anyone else to give me the economic or national security policy that has made this country better and safer?

 

[allsogreat]

Aside from the vast overgeneralizations and emotional rhetoric?

Hey....whats wrong with over generalization and emotional rhetoric if it's true...or do you just disagree with everything?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Mega, I spent 35 years in the private sector and have seen leadership which I truly understand. Leadership is about accepting responsibility and there is no acceptance of responsibility by this President. A good leader delegates authority but understands you cannot delegate responsibility. I am still waiting for you or anyone else to give me the economic or national security policy that has made this country better and safer?

Than you would be asking me for something that I never addressed. That would be putting words in my mouth and inventing an argument that I never put forth.

 

[Conservative]

Than you would be asking me for something that I never addressed. That would be putting words in my mouth and inventing an argument that I never put forth.

I certainly wouldn't want to do that, LOL. it is all about the direction this Administration is taking this country and it is that direction that was referenced in the opinion posted. You can argue against every issue raised just like I can argue the opposite of what you post but it is the facts that matter and the fact is this country is headed in the wrong direction as evidenced by the results. If Obama succeeds with implementing his total agenda what are the consequences if any in your opinion? Do you understand the massive debt and entitlement growth that is occurring with this administration and is that what anyone would call the kind of success to be proud of?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Whenever I see this thread title - for some reason - I think of Kermit singing NIN's "Hurt"

 

[Slartibartfast]

I certainly wouldn't want to do that, LOL. it is all about the direction this Administration is taking this country and it is that direction that was referenced in the opinion posted. You can argue against every issue raised just like I can argue the opposite of what you post but it is the facts that matter and the fact is this country is headed in the wrong direction as evidenced by the results.

I agree with that statement. Except I was using different words to describe it

If Obama succeeds with implementing his total agenda what are the consequences if any in your opinion?

I am not really sure what his agenda is, so I cannot answer that question. I mean, I know what many conservatives on this forum such as zimmer, ptif, councilman, etc say how agenda is. But, all I see is him attempting to fix a broken system however, he is constrained.

Do you understand the massive debt and entitlement growth that is occurring with this administration and is that what anyone would call the kind of success to be proud of?

Much of the debt in this administration is a response to the current severe recession. Those things tend to cause debt. This is more a product of circumstance than it is of agenda, I think.

 

[Conservative]

Mega, obama is constrained by whom? He has large majorities in both Houses of Congress and until recently he had a filibuster proof Senate.

Most of the debt is being created by the growth in govt. and not to solve the recession problems. There is a very simple way of doing that, give the money to the consumer and let them create the demand for jobs. Works every time.

Why is it that liberals always call for paying for tax cuts that create more govt. revenue but never call for paying for their social engineering that never solves a problem? The fact is you are buying what you are told instead of doing the research to verify the rhetoric. BEA.gov will give you economic numbers by each component of GDP and BLS.gov will give you the employment and unemployment numbers. The U.S. Treasury Dept. will give you the revenue and expense numbers and that site will show you that AFTER the Reagan and Bush tax rate cuts, govt. revenue went UP. So if govt. revenue goes up after the tax rate cuts what is there to pay for?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Mega, obama is constrained by whom? He has large majorities in both Houses of Congress and until recently he had a filibuster proof Senate.

Well, there is the economic problems that he came into office with. There is the fact that the bluedogs are quite conservative, so while he has a majority in the party, he does not have one in ideology. And there are major structural issues with government and the economy that must be addressed.

Most of the debt is being created by the growth in govt. and not to solve the recession problems. There is a very simple way of doing that, give the money to the consumer and let them create the demand for jobs. Works every time.

Yes, give money to the consumer, perhaps in the form of a stimulus :mrgreen: Maybe it can even have a tax cut in it. But yes, government debt is caused by government spending which is increased by government growth.

Why is it that liberals always call for paying for tax cuts that create more govt. revenue but never call for paying for their social engineering that never solves a problem?

Always? Again this would be one of those generalizations that got me into this thread in the first place.

The fact is you are buying what you are told instead of doing the research to verify the rhetoric. BEA.gov will give you economic numbers by each component of GDP and BLS.gov will give you the employment and unemployment numbers. The U.S. Treasury Dept. will give you the revenue and expense numbers and that site will show you that AFTER the Reagan and Bush tax rate cuts, govt. revenue went UP. So if govt. revenue goes up after the tax rate cuts what is there to pay for?

I will let goldenboy field that question (if he wishes). He is more educated than me in economic matters and he is quite good at finding the truth there.

 

[allsogreat]

Hey Conservative...I particularly like this thread. Especially like the thought from the article, "We are unable to close our border with Mexico, but have no problem protecting the 38th parallel in Korea."

A cricket couldn't get across the DMZ in Korea, but truck loads of "new dumacrats" cross our southern border nightly....makes you wonder who's driving!

 

[Aunt Spiker]

Hey Conservative...I particularly like this thread. Especially like the thought from the article, "We are unable to close our border with Mexico, but have no problem protecting the 38th parallel in Korea."

A cricket couldn't get across the DMZ in Korea, but truck loads of "new dumacrats" cross our southern border nightly....makes you wonder who's driving!

Hmm . . . well, we're not in a fall out war with Mexico, yet. . . but it's getting there.

 

[Conservative]

megaprogman;1058862161]Well, there is the economic problems that he came into office with. There is the fact that the bluedogs are quite conservative, so while he has a majority in the party, he does not have one in ideology. And there are major structural issues with government and the economy that must be addressed.

yes, and as stated Obama and the Congress helped create them and the fact is he has made things worse.

Yes, give money to the consumer, perhaps in the form of a stimulus :mrgreen: Maybe it can even have a tax cut in it. But yes, government debt is caused by government spending which is increased by government growth.

that is what tax cuts do, give money to the consumer taxpayer.

Always? Again this would be one of those generalizations that got me into this thread in the first place.

Have you ever heard a liberal claim we have to pay for all the social spending the govt. is doing?

I will let goldenboy field that question (if he wishes). He is more educated than me in economic matters and he is quite good at finding the truth there.

[/QUOTE]

All it takes is a little logic and common sense, not strong economic understanding to understand that when people keep more of their tax dollars they have more money to spend. Nor does it take economics understanding to do research of the U.S. Treasury site that shows govt. revenue going up after the Reagan and Bush tax rate cuts thus one should ask themselves if govt. revenue goes up AFTER tax cuts what is there to pay for?

 

[Slartibartfast]

yes, and as stated Obama and the Congress helped create them and the fact is he has made things worse.

Your right, government is some of the problem.

that is what tax cuts do, give money to the consumer taxpayer.

Lots of things the government does gives money to taxpayers.

Have you ever heard a liberal claim we have to pay for all the social spending the govt. is doing?

I have claimed it and I am liberal. I support a balanced budget amendment to the constitution, only to be exempted in times of war or gross disaster.

All it takes is a little logic and common sense, not strong economic understanding to understand that when people keep more of their tax dollars they have more money to spend. Nor does it take economics understanding to do research of the U.S. Treasury site that shows govt. revenue going up after the Reagan and Bush tax rate cuts thus one should ask themselves if govt. revenue goes up AFTER tax cuts what is there to pay for?

Well, one, common sense is often wrong. It was common sense that the sun rotated around the earth at one time, so I don't always put a lot of faith in it, unless that common sense can be verified by testable data. And I disagree with the second statement, things in economics are often deeper than what is apparant in any graph or table.

 

[allsogreat]

Hmm . . . well, we're not in a fall out war with Mexico, yet. . . but it's getting there.

Good reason to close the border. Bring our troops home from Korea, let them secure Our border, let our soldiers spend there pay in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Kalifornia....great boost for the economy.....

 

[Conservative]

=megaprogman;1058862209]Your right, government is some of the problem.

Thank you, yet this Administration is making it bigger

Lots of things the government does gives money to taxpayers.

Gives money to the taxpayers? It is the taxpayers money first thus not the government's to give.

I have claimed it and I am liberal. I support a balanced budget amendment to the constitution, only to be exempted in times of war or gross disaster.

Good for you now show me where that is in the liberal economic plan? Obama has created a 1 trillion dollar debt in fiscal year 2010 with 3 months to go and none of that had anything to do with Bush.

Well, one, common sense is often wrong. It was common sense that the sun rotated around the earth at one time, so I don't always put a lot of faith in it, unless that common sense can be verified by testable data. And I disagree with the second statement, things in economics are often deeper than what is apparant in any graph or table.

Common sense is seldom wrong and it wasn't common sense that the sun rotated around the earth, it was ignorance. The common sense I offer comes from verifiable sources i.e. the checkbook of the United States. Just like your checkbook it registers revenue and expenses. That checkbook shows that govt. revenue grew AFTER Reagan and Bush cut tax rates yet you would never know that by listening to the left and the media. Since the checkbook of the United States shows govt. revenue growing after the tax cuts what is there to pay for as liberals are claiming?

 

[Arcana XV]

Hey Conservative...I particularly like this thread. Especially like the thought from the article, "We are unable to close our border with Mexico, but have no problem protecting the 38th parallel in Korea."

A cricket couldn't get across the DMZ in Korea, but truck loads of "new dumacrats" cross our southern border nightly....makes you wonder who's driving!

I can't believe anyone would actually give any value whatsoever to this particular point. This is probably the most idiotic point in the entire article. How anyone can compare a tiny 250km long border between two countries that are barely speaking to each other, one of which actively keeps its citizens from getting OUT, with the endless 3000+km long border between the US and Mexico is really beyond my comprehension.

 

[Conservative]

I can't believe anyone would actually give any value whatsoever to this particular point. This is probably the most idiotic point in the entire article. How anyone can compare a tiny 250km long border between two countries that are barely speaking to each other, one of which actively keeps its citizens from getting OUT, with the endless 3000+km long border between the US and Mexico is really beyond my comprehension.

The point is there is a will to control the Korean border but none here to control ours. Don't take the point literally but look at the actual lack of action that is occurring.

What is it about ILLEGAL that some do not seem to understand?

 

[allsogreat]

I can't believe anyone would actually give any value whatsoever to this particular point. This is probably the most idiotic point in the entire article. How anyone can compare a tiny 250km long border between two countries that are barely speaking to each other, one of which actively keeps its citizens from getting OUT, with the endless 3000+km long border between the US and Mexico is really beyond my comprehension.

I can understand, and sympathize with you. There are lots of simple things that are beyond some folks comprehension..

 

[Slartibartfast]

Thank you, yet this Administration is making it bigger

Yes. This current administration is increasing the deficit.

Gives money to the taxpayers? It is the taxpayers money first thus not the government's to give.

The 16th amendment gives the government the legal power of taxation.

Good for you now show me where that is in the liberal economic plan? Obama has created a 1 trillion dollar debt in fiscal year 2010 with 3 months to go and none of that had anything to do with Bush.

There is no liberal party. However, there are certain parties that are liberal.

Common sense is seldom wrong and it wasn't common sense that the sun rotated around the earth, it was ignorance. The common sense I offer comes from verifiable sources i.e. the checkbook of the United States. Just like your checkbook it registers revenue and expenses. That checkbook shows that govt. revenue grew AFTER Reagan and Bush cut tax rates yet you would never know that by listening to the left and the media. Since the checkbook of the United States shows govt. revenue growing after the tax cuts what is there to pay for as liberals are claiming?

Yes, common sense can often be ignorant if it is not supported by facts.

 

[Arcana XV]

The point is there is a will to control the Korean border but none here to control ours. Don't take the point literally but look at the actual lack of action that is occurring.

What is it about ILLEGAL that some do not seem to understand?

I can understand, and sympathize with you. There are lots of simple things that are beyond some folks comprehension..

You guys want to be taken seriously and want to really bring attention to the problems? Stop making ridiculous comparisons and stop posting these simplistic, one-dimensional spam emails that seem custom made for those who can't or won't think deeper than the feeble talking points they're being force fed by unintelligent, provincial imbeciles. Please, people, tell me you're better than to fall for this crap.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

You guys want to be taken seriously and want to really bring attention to the problems? Stop making ridiculous comparisons and stop posting these simplistic, one-dimensional spam emails that seem custom made for those who can't or won't think deeper than the feeble talking points they're being force fed by unintelligent, provincial imbeciles. Please, people, tell me you're better than to fall for this crap.

Hissing and spitting SHADDAP YUO SOCIALIST URPEEN MEDDLER YUO-style reply in 3 . . . 2 . . .

 

[goldcatt]

You guys want to be taken seriously and want to really bring attention to the problems? Stop making ridiculous comparisons and stop posting these simplistic, one-dimensional spam emails that seem custom made for those who can't or won't think deeper than the feeble talking points they're being force fed by unintelligent, provincial imbeciles. Please, people, tell me you're better than to fall for this crap.

This is after all an internet forum. Any media source is completely not to be trusted, any academic source is completely not to be trusted, any government source is completely not to be trusted, but spam e-mail contains all unquestionable, universal truth.

 

[Arcana XV]

Hissing and spitting SHADDAP YUO SOCIALIST URPEEN MEDDLER YUO-style reply in 3 . . . 2 . . .

:rofl

At least, when someone calls me a socialist I actually know what the word means. Did you see the retard in the article calling "progressives" commie-socialists? What the heck is WRONG with these people??? Did they not study political science in school? And if they didn't, what the hell are they doing writing about the subject??

Gah.

 

[allsogreat]

You guys want to be taken seriously and want to really bring attention to the problems? Stop making ridiculous comparisons and stop posting these simplistic, one-dimensional spam emails that seem custom made for those who can't or won't think deeper than the feeble talking points they're being force fed by unintelligent, provincial imbeciles. Please, people, tell me you're better than to fall for this crap.

Gosh you're excitable.......and OK...I'll try really really hard not to "fall for your crap"...