What do we need the state for?

[noncompliant]

What has it done for you, so far?

I have been discharged from the military because I lied about my asthma and "fraudulent enlistment" or something like that is on my record now. Since last October, I applied to countless jobs around my area and have never even scored an INTERVIEW!

Now that I really think about it, I think joining the military to serve MY COUNTRY is STUPID! How am I going to defend my friends and family when I am overseas? Forming a local security service to protect the neighborhood from burglars and crooks is the only way to "protect" my community.

The formal military in our country is simply serving the will of the STATE! There is nothing being gained in the streets of Afghanistan except my countrymen being blown up and shot at, while we secure an area for our POLITICIANS of the UN to make a democratic government for people who never even asked for it!

I understand the REAL PATRIOTS of this country who are currently forming MILITIAS, which are truly their to serve and protect the PEOPLE!

The government has not payed my bills, put food in my stomach, or put clothes on my back. I no longer see the LEGITIMACY of the STATE, and will do my part to empower the PEOPLE and free them from the oppression of the office building. They did nothing but put my brothers in jail for the possession of marijuana!

Okay, now let us discuss the state!

 

[Spartacus FPV]

We need the state for law courts to appeal to for our rights, police to protect us from eachother and the military to protect us for threats abroad.

So long as men live they should be free, and any organization that they engage in to protect their basic liberties shall be a "state" so to answer your question, we need the state in order to be free.

 

[noncompliant]

We need the state for law courts to appeal to for our rights, police to protect us from eachother and the military to protect us for threats abroad.

So long as men live they should be free, and any organization that they engage in to protect their basic liberties shall be a "state" so to answer your question, we need the state in order to be free.

Anarchic Ireland had a court system that was legitimized by the PEOPLE and not by an exclusive state that had a monopoly on the administering of laws and enforcement of those laws and punishment for breaking those laws.

When a burglar decides to break into your house, you better have a gun. If a police officer were to stand up for a citizen it would be out of the individual officer's generosity, as they are not required to protect citizens. They are there simply to write tickets and such and enforce the law of the state. If you want protection, buy a gun or hire a guard or both.

Freedom is an emergent condition of not being ruled over. States do nothing, but limit freedom.

 

[Metternich]

Anarchic Ireland had a court system that was legitimized by the PEOPLE and not by an exclusive state that had a monopoly on the administering of laws and enforcement of those laws and punishment for breaking those laws.

So we had a court system whose only legitimacy was a popularity contest with "the PEOPLE?" Fantastic, I'll make sure to pay big bucks and try to order hookers for "the PEOPLE" so when I do get to court I either get off free or I let the people illegitimize (is that a word?) it as easily as they legitimized it.

As for that whole "far and equal justice" Gestalt, well - Lady Justice is in need of a break. Amirite or amirite?

When a burglar decides to break into your house, you better have a gun. If a police officer were to stand up for a citizen it would be out of the individual officer's generosity, as they are not required to protect citizens. They are there simply to write tickets and such and enforce the law of the state. If you want protection, buy a gun or hire a guard or both.

I'm fairly certain a police officer would defend you from criminals with or without your requests for help. Trust me on that one.

I agree you need weapons to defend yourself, however to believe that large forces of anti-property elements (by which I mean incompetents wanting to rape your wife, your kids and even rape your toaster if it got out of hand) would not form but be limited to small scale is delightfully unrealistic. To destroy the government is to enable such forces to work without restriction and to then force other groups of pro-property fellows (like myself) to make equally large groups which would, at the end of the day, be so similar to a moralistic, custom enforced, state (minarchist, but undoubtedly a state) the whole exercise would have just been a random turkey-shoot sidetrack that results in quite a few lost lives, GDP percentage points and international respect.

Freedom is an emergent condition of not being ruled over. States do nothing, but limit freedom.

And here's me thinking that freedom existed with or without a state. Silly me.

 

[celticlord]

What has it done for you, so far?

I have been discharged from the military because I lied about my asthma and "fraudulent enlistment" or something like that is on my record now. Since last October, I applied to countless jobs around my area and have never even scored an INTERVIEW!

Yeah, well, folks who lie casually make bad employees. Folks who get caught at it make horrible employees. You screwed yourself.

Okay, now let us discuss the state!

Ok, why are you blaming "the state" for your own moral and ethical failings? You lied, got caught, and because "the state" is the one that caught you in a lie, "the state" is evil?

You're going to have sooooo much fun when your wife catches you in bed with your mistress!:2razz:

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

What has it done for you, so far?

I have been discharged from the military because I lied about my asthma and "fraudulent enlistment" or something like that is on my record now. Since last October, I applied to countless jobs around my area and have never even scored an INTERVIEW!

I suppose you shouldn't have lied, then.

Now that I really think about it, I think joining the military to serve MY COUNTRY is STUPID! How am I going to defend my friends and family when I am overseas? Forming a local security service to protect the neighborhood from burglars and crooks is the only way to "protect" my community.

No, you are protecting your country, where your friends and family live, from tyranny if an oppressive regime attacks and takes over the US.

The formal military in our country is simply serving the will of the STATE! There is nothing being gained in the streets of Afghanistan except my countrymen being blown up and shot at, while we secure an area for our POLITICIANS of the UN to make a democratic government for people who never even asked for it!

No, by assisting other countries, you are potentially preventing future problems. Their security adds to our security.

I understand the REAL PATRIOTS of this country who are currently forming MILITIAS, which are truly their to serve and protect the PEOPLE!

Militias can be good things, too.

The government has not payed my bills, put food in my stomach, or put clothes on my back. I no longer see the LEGITIMACY of the STATE, and will do my part to empower the PEOPLE and free them from the oppression of the office building. They did nothing but put my brothers in jail for the possession of marijuana!

It is not the government's job to put food in your stomach or pay your bills. As an anarchist, I would think you should know that.

And if your brothers didn't want to go to jail, I suppose they shouldn't have possessed marijuana.

Okay, now let us discuss the state!

That state of what? Your own confusion? Because it seems to me that all you seem to want to do is whine about what the state isn't doing for you...so then it should be abolished. That is not an anarchist talking. Sounds to me more like one who is quite self-centered.

 

[Lopettaa]

I suppose you shouldn't have lied, then.
.

Politicians lie all the time and they still have jobs

That state of what? Your own confusion? Because it seems to me that all you seem to want to do is whine about what the state isn't doing for you...so then it should be abolished. That is not an anarchist talking. Sounds to me more like one who is quite self-centered.

I agree. I don't think there is a person living in Ontario that would say they need the federal government, especially if that includes Quebec.

 

[Arch Enemy]

to regulate the alcohol, duh.

 

[Goshin]

Without a state of some sort (and you're disingenuous for claiming medieval Ireland didn't have "states" or government within it), the only property or rights you have are those that you and your buddies can enforce at gunpoint.

Until someone with more armed buddies comes long and kills you.

 

[celticlord]

to regulate the alcohol, duh.

I thought that was why we needed bartenders?

 

[apdst]

What has it done for you, so far?

I have been discharged from the military because I lied about my asthma and "fraudulent enlistment" or something like that is on my record now.

They really flagged your record for that?? Goddamn, what has the service come to? When I enlisted in '87, you could walk in missing a limb, lie about it and they would just send you home, no flag.


That f*ckin' sucks, man. I really sorry to hear that.

 

[Goshin]

I have been discharged from the military because I lied

Doesn't that pretty much say all we really need to know about this poster?

 

[Baralis]

I have always believed we should have greater local and state powers over federal powers (take back said powers). I have talked to many people that believe we should do away with state powers all together and rely on a central government. I think this is a poor choice.

The reasons I believe in higher local and state powers is the local government can better accommodate the needs of the people in a given area. Living in a area gives the officals a better idea of what is needed over someone hundreds/thousands of miles away.

The representatives are more accountable to the people. In many small towns your average citizen can still meet and talk to their local officals and express their needs and wants. Ever try to meet the President?

Local laws can be created that better suit the local community instead of having a blanket law that affects everyone.

 

[Agnapostate]

The "state" is not the mere presence of political order; the state is the formal, centralized, hierarchical body of government that exists in effectively all modern nations. As put by Kropotkin (yeah, I'm a fan ), "the word 'State' . . . should be reserved for those societies with the hierarchical system and centralization." Hence, I don't believe it's a necessary condition for a state to exist in an organized society; I'm of the opinion that horizontal federations of decentralized and non-hierarchical municipalities managed through participatory direct democracy could replace the state. And before it even comes, please consult Section I.5.5 of An Anarchist FAQ, entitled Aren't participatory communities and confederations just new states?, if you're planning to inquire about that. :2razz:

 

[jamesrage]

What has it done for you, so far?

I have been discharged from the military because I lied about my asthma and "fraudulent enlistment" or something like that is on my record now. Since last October, I applied to countless jobs around my area and have never even scored an INTERVIEW!

Now that I really think about it, I think joining the military to serve MY COUNTRY is STUPID! How am I going to defend my friends and family when I am overseas? Forming a local security service to protect the neighborhood from burglars and crooks is the only way to "protect" my community.

The formal military in our country is simply serving the will of the STATE! There is nothing being gained in the streets of Afghanistan except my countrymen being blown up and shot at, while we secure an area for our POLITICIANS of the UN to make a democratic government for people who never even asked for it!

I understand the REAL PATRIOTS of this country who are currently forming MILITIAS, which are truly their to serve and protect the PEOPLE!

The government has not payed my bills, put food in my stomach, or put clothes on my back. I no longer see the LEGITIMACY of the STATE, and will do my part to empower the PEOPLE and free them from the oppression of the office building. They did nothing but put my brothers in jail for the possession of marijuana!

Okay, now let us discuss the state!

You pretty much ****ed yourself by lying and getting tossed out of the military for lying. The only hopes you have of getting a good job is moving to Berkly or Sanfransicko. Maybe you can get a job with codepink. You have no one else to blame for the situation that you are in except for yourself. The government didn't stick a gun to your head and tell you to join.

Why on earth would someone with your medical condition join the military? You have to do runs,pushups, situps, just to pass a pt test and you have to do lengthy roadmarches(depending on which branch you join) while carrying a rucksack and your weapon. How did they catch you lying? Did you get caught having an asthma attack or did CID(or some other military agency) do some thorough back ground checks? Did you hope to get a no exercise profile once it was discovered you had asthma. When I was in basic most broke dicks were despised,especially if they were exaggerating symptoms. Because if your battle buddy couldn't do a road march or go to a range to train you had to carry his rucksack and weapon. Luckily I had two battle buddies, so me and my other battle buddy took turns with our 3rd battle buddy's rucksack and weapon.That ****er was always riding sick call, his ass got what he deserved during the last 2-4 hours of the 24 hour road march he got restarted back to week 9(infantry basic is 12 weeks) for malingering.

 

[wbreese91]

They really flagged your record for that?? Goddamn, what has the service come to? When I enlisted in '87, you could walk in missing a limb, lie about it and they would just send you home, no flag.


That f*ckin' sucks, man. I really sorry to hear that.

There is a difference between making a blatently obvious lie about missing a limb or something, and joining the army and having the Army find out later that you lied when you enlisted. It is the posters own fault. He got what he deserved.

To the OP:

Stop whining about your own mistakes and pretending it is a reason to hate the state. Its like a high school kid blaming the school because he got caught lighting up in the bathroom.

 

[Goobieman]

What has it done for you, so far?

The state -- and by that, I'll take the term to mean 'the government' -- exists to protect your rights, from bith criminals and non-criminals.

Without the state, your rights would be as secure as you, yourself, could make them.

 

[Arch Enemy]

I thought that was why we needed bartenders?

I too young to go to bars.

 

[Agnapostate]

The "state" is not the mere presence of political order; the state is the formal, centralized, hierarchical body of government that exists in effectively all modern nations. As put by Kropotkin (yeah, I'm a fan ), "the word 'State' . . . should be reserved for those societies with the hierarchical system and centralization." Hence, I don't believe it's a necessary condition for a state to exist in an organized society; I'm of the opinion that horizontal federations of decentralized and non-hierarchical municipalities managed through participatory direct democracy could replace the state. And before it even comes, please consult Section I.5.5 of An Anarchist FAQ, entitled Aren't participatory communities and confederations just new states?, if you're planning to inquire about that. :2razz:

*ahem*...bump'd. :2razz:

 

[kaya'08]

Anarchic Ireland had a court system that was legitimized by the PEOPLE and not by an exclusive state that had a monopoly on the administering of laws and enforcement of those laws and punishment for breaking those laws.

It can easily be prejudice and biased if its ligitimized by the people. The government is neutral and is bound by a constitution.

When a burglar decides to break into your house, you better have a gun. If a police officer were to stand up for a citizen it would be out of the individual officer's generosity, as they are not required to protect citizens. They are there simply to write tickets and such and enforce the law of the state. If you want protection, buy a gun or hire a guard or both.

What nonsense. If your life is being threatened then they ARE breaking the law. By ENFORCING the law they are therefore PROTECTING you.

Freedom is an emergent condition of not being ruled over. States do nothing, but limit freedom.

Absolute freedom will never exist. In order for people to create orderly and civilized societies, there has to be someone on top; someone we answer too. Freedom is never absolute, and to empower people to the point where they have absolute freedom is just very dangerous. The government limits our freedoms by stopping us from doing things that are wrong - im OK with that.

 

[Jerry]

What has it done for you, so far?

I have been discharged from the military because I lied about my asthma and "fraudulent enlistment" or something like that is on my record now. Since last October, I applied to countless jobs around my area and have never even scored an INTERVIEW!

Now that I really think about it, I think joining the military to serve MY COUNTRY is STUPID! How am I going to defend my friends and family when I am overseas? Forming a local security service to protect the neighborhood from burglars and crooks is the only way to "protect" my community.

The formal military in our country is simply serving the will of the STATE! There is nothing being gained in the streets of Afghanistan except my countrymen being blown up and shot at, while we secure an area for our POLITICIANS of the UN to make a democratic government for people who never even asked for it!

I understand the REAL PATRIOTS of this country who are currently forming MILITIAS, which are truly their to serve and protect the PEOPLE!

The government has not payed my bills, put food in my stomach, or put clothes on my back. I no longer see the LEGITIMACY of the STATE, and will do my part to empower the PEOPLE and free them from the oppression of the office building. They did nothing but put my brothers in jail for the possession of marijuana!

Okay, now let us discuss the state!

Why did you lie about your asthma?

 

[kaya'08]

You're still well within your 25 minutes to edit and quote 'the right thing'

Hmm kay.

What has it done for you, so far?

I have been discharged from the military because I lied about my asthma and "fraudulent enlistment" or something like that is on my record now. Since last October, I applied to countless jobs around my area and have never even scored an INTERVIEW!

Now that I really think about it, I think joining the military to serve MY COUNTRY is STUPID! How am I going to defend my friends and family when I am overseas? Forming a local security service to protect the neighborhood from burglars and crooks is the only way to "protect" my community.

The formal military in our country is simply serving the will of the STATE! There is nothing being gained in the streets of Afghanistan except my countrymen being blown up and shot at, while we secure an area for our POLITICIANS of the UN to make a democratic government for people who never even asked for it!

I understand the REAL PATRIOTS of this country who are currently forming MILITIAS, which are truly their to serve and protect the PEOPLE!

The government has not payed my bills, put food in my stomach, or put clothes on my back. I no longer see the LEGITIMACY of the STATE, and will do my part to empower the PEOPLE and free them from the oppression of the office building. They did nothing but put my brothers in jail for the possession of marijuana!

Okay, now let us discuss the state!

Anarchic Ireland had a court system that was legitimized by the PEOPLE and not by an exclusive state that had a monopoly on the administering of laws and enforcement of those laws and punishment for breaking those laws.

When a burglar decides to break into your house, you better have a gun. If a police officer were to stand up for a citizen it would be out of the individual officer's generosity, as they are not required to protect citizens. They are there simply to write tickets and such and enforce the law of the state. If you want protection, buy a gun or hire a guard or both.

Freedom is an emergent condition of not being ruled over. States do nothing, but limit freedom.

Correct me if i am mistaken, but usually every soldier has a vital part to play on the battle field. If your on the floor unable to breathe and basically paralysed from the basic duties of the battlefield, you've screwed your team up and the instructions you we're meant to carry out. An eye for an eye. A soldiers ability to carry instructions on the field will effect the overall survival rate and efficiency of a team on the battlefield. If your lying about it, your putting soldiers at potential risk.

:2wave:

 

[Jerry]

Correct me if i am mistaken, but usually every soldier has a vital part to play on the battle field. If your on the floor unable to breathe and basically paralysed from the basic duties of the battlefield, you've screwed your team up and the instructions you we're meant to carry out. An eye for an eye. A soldiers ability to carry instructions on the field will effect the overall survival rate and efficiency of a team on the battlefield. If your lying about it, your putting soldiers at potential risk.

Is this his answer?

 

[kaya'08]

Is this his answer?

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed?
I quoted the wrong thing.

 

[Jerry]

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed?
I quoted the wrong thing.

You're still well within your 25 minutes to edit and quote 'the right thing' :2wave:

I'm trying to interrogate this...Jerry you're upstairs..."veteran" ...so step aside and let me work my dark magic.