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What are the required terms of any “deal?” Ending the government shutdown

What must happen to end the shutdown

  • Fund the government then wall negotiations

    Votes: 18 52.9%
  • Fund the wall and government at the same time?

    Votes: 9 26.5%
  • Other?

    Votes: 7 20.6%

  • Total voters
    34

Unitedwestand13

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What is the proper order of events that need to occur to create a satisfactory deal ending the current government shutdown?

A) open the government first then work on immigration reform seperatly?

B) funding the “border wall has to be included in any deal that opens the government.
 

KevinKohler

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No wall. Criminalize the employers who hire illegal residents. Establish a way for employers to easily verify such. Fix our social services, so that only legal residents have access to it. Include this in what ever deal that opens our government.
 

cabse5

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I chose fund the wall then fund the gov't. Serious border security won't be done by congress, otherwise.
 

gdgyva

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No wall. Criminalize the employers who hire illegal residents. Establish a way for employers to easily verify such. Fix our social services, so that only legal residents have access to it. Include this in what ever deal that opens our government.

I don’t mind adding teeth to criminalizing hiring of illegals, but that in itself won’t get it done. Too many work in the shadow/ cash economy...and we as a nation aren’t ready to make that stop. That is why the wall also has to be a component....

Look in any middle class neighborhood and you will find them....roofers, cement driveway guys, landscapers, etc....cash contractors who for the most part work in the shadow economy. The guys with licenses, insurance, and permits hate them....as they constantly underbid their projects.

And these guys don’t file taxes....don’t carry insurance....and in a lot of cases either are illegals, or employ illegals. There is no way to stop this economy....at least none that I can come up with. Unless you can get neighbors calling authorities on neighbors....and isn’t that a pleasant thought

So you will never shut off their employment avenues....they will have these opportunities. Until we go to a 100% credit based economy where every nickel is traced by uncle Sammie....we need more than one thing to help defray illegal immigration.

The wall and more teeth into existing laws for those businesses that do hire them...
 

OrphanSlug

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We need to open up government first, deal with negotiation over the wall as a separate issue. This entire debate over the wall has become so absurd, full of misinformation and falsehoods. These are the things that keep people disgusted with politics.
 

Captain Adverse

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What is the proper order of events that need to occur to create a satisfactory deal ending the current government shutdown?

A) open the government first then work on immigration reform seperatly?

B) funding the “border wall has to be included in any deal that opens the government.

Normally (in better times) I would say "pass a CR to keep the government functioning," then negotiate in good faith on the issue that needs to be resolved.

However, at this time I chose "fund the wall and government" simply because the Democrats have made it clear that they were elected to oppose Trump on every issue, especially the Wall, so they have no intention of negotiating in good faith.

The President really has nothing to lose by refusing to support any appropriations bill that does not provide funding for his efforts at border security, including his "revised" border wall requests.
 
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gdgyva

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We need to open up government first, deal with negotiation over the wall as a separate issue. This entire debate over the wall has become so absurd, full of misinformation and falsehoods. These are the things that keep people disgusted with politics.

Sorry but no

Promises promises

This time we want it in writing and the check cut
 

Unitedwestand13

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Sorry but no

Promises promises

This time we want it in writing and the check cut

Why does the government have to be shut down?

Fund the government and negotiate over something more concrete. Stop using the pay and livelihood of 800,000 furloughed government workers as bargaining chips.
 

gdgyva

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Why does the government have to be shut down?

Fund the government and negotiate over something more concrete. Stop using the pay and livelihood of 800,000 furloughed government workers as bargaining chips.

Because the funding of the government takes place from bills....and congress and the president can’t agree on a small part of the budget....which is over 4 trillion....and he wants 5.7b for his project

Since he won’t sign what they sent, the government ran out of funding....they had a duty to either send him a bill he is willing to sign, or have a bill that is veto proof....but McConnell is in his court in the senate, so that leaves option one.
 

Unitedwestand13

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Because the funding of the government takes place from bills....and congress and the president can’t agree on a small part of the budget....which is over 4 trillion....and he wants 5.7b for his project

Since he won’t sign what they sent, the government ran out of funding....they had a duty to either send him a bill he is willing to sign, or have a bill that is veto proof....but McConnell is in his court in the senate, so that leaves option one.

And trump is refusing to fund the government, one of the basic duties and requirements of governing, over that 5.7 billion in funding.


Fund the government first.
 

gdgyva

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Like Pelosi and Trump....we are at an impasse

Going around in circles

I guess we will see where this goes in another month or so....

By then, all the savings and emergency funds will be wiped out for 90% of the 800k

At that point, it starts to get serious
 

Xelor

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Existentially, only one thing is required to end the current government shutdown: an appropriation that funds the shutdown parts of the government.
 

Rogue Valley

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Open the government and stop punishing federal employees and using them as Trumps pawns.

Once the government is reopened in full, then negotiate border security. A majority of Americans say they do not want to fund a wall.
 

Birdzeye

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Because the funding of the government takes place from bills....and congress and the president can’t agree on a small part of the budget....which is over 4 trillion....and he wants 5.7b for his project

Since he won’t sign what they sent, the government ran out of funding....they had a duty to either send him a bill he is willing to sign, or have a bill that is veto proof....but McConnell is in his court in the senate, so that leaves option one.

No. The House did its duty by passing funding. The Senate, thanks to McConnell, has not done its duty by debating it. Neither chamber has an obligation to do the president’s bidding, contrary to the claims by trump apologists.

Trump has never negotiated in good faith. It’s alwas been my way or the highway, and his latest “compromise” is not a compromise. It gives him everything he wants but only gives a little to the Dems. It does not address their demand that the government reopen first. It only gives DACA people 3 years of protection, not a permanent solution.

Trump is holding federal employees hostage. If he gets what he’s demanding first, he’ll only be emboldened to play the same sick game with people’s lives next time he wants something.
 

gdgyva

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No. The House did its duty by passing funding. The Senate, thanks to McConnell, has not done its duty by debating it. Neither chamber has an obligation to do the president’s bidding, contrary to the claims by trump apologists.

Trump has never negotiated in good faith. It’s alwas been my way or the highway, and his latest “compromise” is not a compromise. It gives him everything he wants but only gives a little to the Dems. It does not address their demand that the government reopen first. It only gives DACA people 3 years of protection, not a permanent solution.

Trump is holding federal employees hostage. If he gets what he’s demanding first, he’ll only be emboldened to play the same sick game with people’s lives next time he wants something.

McConnell isn’t going to let those bills see the light of day....so next?

What is the plan? How are you going to get McConnell and Trump to change their mind?

They don’t have to...which is what we have been trying to get accross to you

The optics are Trump is now “trying” to submit ideas....but the democrats won’t even listen or send back their own requirements

It will only get worse with time.....

So what is the democrats plan? Wait for his term to end?
 

Birdzeye

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McConnell isn’t going to let those bills see the light of day....so next?

So McConnell is part of the problem - can’t reasonably pin blame on the Dems, who have passed the required spending bills.

What is the plan? How are you going to get McConnell and Trump to change their mind?

Thats a toughie. One thing I know for sure is that capitulating to bullies like trump and McConnell is NOT a good option. It will only embolden them to repeat holding the government hostage to their blackmail the next time spending bills have to be passed.

They don’t have to...which is what we have been trying to get accross to you

So we’re supposed to give in to blackmail? Where does it end?

The optics are Trump is now “trying” to submit ideas....but the democrats won’t even listen or send back their own requirements

SSDD. The Dems have indeed sent in their requirements: open the government. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, with links, a year ago the Dems offered trump $20B for his vanity wall in exchange for DACA provisions. Trump initially appeared to agree, but then reneged. Trump can’t be trusted to keep his word.

It will only get worse with time.....

It will indeed. If the Dems capitulate, trump will be emboldened to use the shutdown tactic to continue to blackmail the nation into giving him everything he wants, unconditionally.

[/quote]So what is the democrats plan? Wait for his term to end?[/QUOTE]

Sadly, it may come to that. You can count on the Dems featuring in future campaign ads federal workers who have been evicted, had their homes foreclosed on, cars repossessed, and become painfully familiar with homeless shelters and soup kitchens.

Why can’t trump negotiate in good faith? He gave up NOTHING in his latest proposal but is still demanding that the Dems give up their demands to open the government first, and to give him everything he demanded for his precious wall.
 

gdgyva

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So McConnell is part of the problem - can’t reasonably pin blame on the Dems, who have passed the required spending bills.



Thats a toughie. One thing I know for sure is that capitulating to bullies like trump and McConnell is NOT a good option. It will only embolden them to repeat holding the government hostage to their blackmail the next time spending bills have to be passed.



So we’re supposed to give in to blackmail? Where does it end?



SSDD. The Dems have indeed sent in their requirements: open the government. As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, with links, a year ago the Dems offered trump $20B for his vanity wall in exchange for DACA provisions. Trump initially appeared to agree, but then reneged. Trump can’t be trusted to keep his word.



It will indeed. If the Dems capitulate, trump will be emboldened to use the shutdown tactic to continue to blackmail the nation into giving him everything he wants, unconditionally.
So what is the democrats plan? Wait for his term to end?[/QUOTE]

Sadly, it may come to that. You can count on the Dems featuring in future campaign ads federal workers who have been evicted, had their homes foreclosed on, cars repossessed, and become painfully familiar with homeless shelters and soup kitchens.

Why can’t trump negotiate in good faith? He gave up NOTHING in his latest proposal but is still demanding that the Dems give up their demands to open the government first, and to give him everything he demanded for his precious wall.[/QUOTE]

Now the optics are that Trump offered a crappy deal, but democrats refused to counter

And the bill a year ago for 25b was over 10 years, and not guaranteed

That is why he changed his mind....no promises this time....
 

bongsaway

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Normally (in better times) I would say "pass a CR to keep the government functioning," then negotiate in good faith on the issue that needs to be resolved.

However, at this time I chose "fund the wall and government" simply because the Democrats have made it clear that they were elected to oppose Trump on every issue, especially the Wall, so they have no intention of negotiating in good faith.

The President really has nothing to lose by refusing to support any appropriations bill that does not provide funding for his efforts at border security, including his "revised" border wall requests.

He has an election to lose if he's still around.
 

Birdzeye

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So what is the democrats plan? Wait for his term to end?

Sadly, it may come to that. You can count on the Dems featuring in future campaign ads federal workers who have been evicted, had their homes foreclosed on, cars repossessed, and become painfully familiar with homeless shelters and soup kitchens.

Why can’t trump negotiate in good faith? He gave up NOTHING in his latest proposal but is still demanding that the Dems give up their demands to open the government first, and to give him everything he demanded for his precious wall.[/QUOTE]

Now the optics are that Trump offered a crappy deal, but democrats refused to counter

And the bill a year ago for 25b was over 10 years, and not guaranteed

That is why he changed his mind....no promises this time....[/QUOTE]

Not that any promises from trump are worth spit, not with his history of reneging on his word.
 

Captain Adverse

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He has an election to lose if he's still around.

Not really.

Unless the relentless efforts to undermine him coupled with some real political coup's occur during the next two years, absent a win on this wall thing there is a very real possibility he would lose anyway.

That is, if he chose to run for a second term after losing the wall battle and depending on how radical the Democratic candidate ends up being.
 
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