What are the required terms of any “deal?” Ending the government shutdown

[Birdzeye]

No funding for the wall, period.

Polls show a majority oppose the wall, but neither trump nor the GOPers give a ****. I wonder if they’ve already promised the building contracts to their favorite deep pocket benefactors.

 

[Amelia]

Other.

Open the government first.

OR make a super sweet deal in connection with immigration. Just postponing action for 3 years when the action is already tied up in court is b.s. If you want money which you promised Americans would not have to pay ... and if you want it so badly that you would screw a million Americans in your attempt to extort it from legislators ... then you better make one hell of an offer. So far Trump hasn't made such an offer. If Democrats give in to him now, there's no incentive to stop him pulling a nasty trick like this again.

 

[upsideguy]

The Dems should respond to Trump's offer as:

$1.8 to 2.0B for border security (no wall, but ok to upgrade and extend fencing) now, 3 year moratoriums on TPS and DACA for open government with CR to Sept 30, including raising debt ceiling.

Further funding for the wall and path to citizenship for DACA eligible participants as a part of comprehensive immigration reform. Senate and House begin with joint committee to draft comprehensive immigration reform.

No wall without comprehensive immigration reform!

 

[DaveFagan]

What is the proper order of events that need to occur to create a satisfactory deal ending the current government shutdown?

A) open the government first then work on immigration reform seperatly?

B) funding the “border wall has to be included in any deal that opens the government.

Trump did not negotiate for the Wall when he had both Houses of Congress and the Veto. If it was not important then, it is not implortant now. Besides that, all he has to do is wait for the check from the Mexicans to pay for the Wall. So why hold hostage 800,000 Federal employees and attempt to manufacture a humanitarian crisis on a border with no crisis. This is a failed MSM play and the "Flamin' haired redskin with the white eyes and forked tongue" is out of his league.
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[washunut]

Trump did not negotiate for the Wall when he had both Houses of Congress and the Veto. If it was not important then, it is not implortant now. Besides that, all he has to do is wait for the check from the Mexicans to pay for the Wall. So why hold hostage 800,000 Federal employees and attempt to manufacture a humanitarian crisis on a border with no crisis. This is a failed MSM play and the "Flamin' haired redskin with the white eyes and forked tongue" is out of his league.
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Agree in a way. Put a fee on money people send to Mexico. Will pay for the wall plus. Also reduce the incentive to come to the U.S. so a win-win.

 

[uptower]

Normally (in better times) I would say "pass a CR to keep the government functioning," then negotiate in good faith on the issue that needs to be resolved.

However, at this time I chose "fund the wall and government" simply because the Democrats have made it clear that they were elected to oppose Trump on every issue, especially the Wall, so they have no intention of negotiating in good faith.

Negotiating in good faith means being honest about one's intentions. Bad faith means negotiating something one has already [secretly] decided is off the table. Therefore since the Dems have made it clear that they don't want a wall they will not negotiate in good or bad faith: they just won't negotiate on a wall at all. There's no dishonesty at play here.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Negotiating in good faith means being honest about one's intentions. Bad faith means negotiating something one has already [secretly] decided is off the table. Therefore since the Dems have made it clear that they don't want a wall they will not negotiate in good or bad faith: they just won't negotiate on a wall at all. There's no dishonesty at play here.

Actually, the lack of "good faith" is stating there will be no negotiation, period. If there is NO negotiation on the one thing Trump wants, then there is no point in giving in to their position either. :shrug:

Let them stew, eventually people will start realizing that Congress passes bills, the President just gets one veto. Both sides claim they want to end the shutdown, and BOTH sides refuse to budge on the wall funding.

Since Trump wants funds for border wall construction and the Democrats have made it clear that will never happen...Trump has nothing to lose, as I stated. :coffeepap:

 

[uptower]

Actually, the lack of "good faith" is stating there will be no negotiation, period. If there is NO negotiation on the one thing Trump wants, then there is no point in giving in to their position either. :shrug:

Let them stew, eventually people will start realizing that Congress passes bills, the President just gets one veto. Both sides claim they want to end the shutdown, and BOTH sides refuse to budge on the wall funding.

Since Trump wants funds for border wall construction and the Democrats have made it clear that will never happen...Trump has nothing to lose, as I stated. :coffeepap:

In any case the real impediment - to both parties - is Trump has proven an unreliable negotiating partner. He lies and goes back on his word all the time. Nobody trusts him at home or abroad.

Trump’s tactics were honed over decades. Throughout his business career, he moved from one project to the next — real estate development, sales, casinos and branding — often leaving scorned partners or creditors to deal with the fallout from bankruptcies or deals gone bad.

“This was all to stay ahead of his reputation,” said Michael D'Antonio, author of “The Truth About Trump.” But “in Washington,” he said, “you can’t escape who you are for very long. He’s proven that he can’t keep his word.”

 

[molten_dragon]

Polls show a majority oppose the wall, but neither trump nor the GOPers give a ****. I wonder if they’ve already promised the building contracts to their favorite deep pocket benefactors.

I think it's more the fact that building the wall was one of Trump's key campaign promises and he can't back down without pissing off his base, who are pretty much the only people who support him at all any more.

 

[Wayne Jr]

What is the proper order of events that need to occur to create a satisfactory deal ending the current government shutdown?

A) open the government first then work on immigration reform seperatly?

B) funding the “border wall has to be included in any deal that opens the government.

Other.

Trump gets nothing. The shutdown continues until Trump is forced to end it, getting nothing. A wall is a terrible idea; a wall wouldn't work even if the money for the wall went to the wall, which it won't. The money will be diverted to pork projects as always.

The most effective border between nations is between North and South Koria and there is no wall. There is a mile wide demilitarised zone and machine guns on both ends. No wall.

 

[Idiometer]

What is the proper order of events that need to occur to create a satisfactory deal ending the current government shutdown?

A) open the government first then work on immigration reform seperatly?

B) funding the “border wall has to be included in any deal that opens the government.

Make up your mind: funding the wall and immigration reform are not the same thing. Your poll mentions one thing and your post mentions the other.

 

[Idiometer]

So what is the democrats plan? Wait for his term to end?

Sadly, it may come to that. You can count on the Dems featuring in future campaign ads federal workers who have been evicted, had their homes foreclosed on, cars repossessed, and become painfully familiar with homeless shelters and soup kitchens.

Why can’t trump negotiate in good faith? He gave up NOTHING in his latest proposal but is still demanding that the Dems give up their demands to open the government first, and to give him everything he demanded for his precious wall.[/QUOTE]

Now the optics are that Trump offered a crappy deal, but democrats refused to counter

And the bill a year ago for 25b was over 10 years, and not guaranteed

That is why he changed his mind....no promises this time....[/QUOTE]

He changed his mind because Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter called him weak. Everything Trump says and does is about his ego.

 

[Idiometer]

Agree in a way. Put a fee on money people send to Mexico. Will pay for the wall plus. Also reduce the incentive to come to the U.S. so a win-win.

A fee on money sent to Mexico? How many people send money to Mexico? How long would it take for those fees to pay for a wall likely to cost upwards of $40 billion?

 

[AliHajiSheik]

A fee on money sent to Mexico? How many people send money to Mexico? How long would it take for those fees to pay for a wall likely to cost upwards of $40 billion?

This article appears to answer most of your questions, the rest could be calculated from the numbers presented:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/02/10/514172676/mexicans-in-the-u-s-are-sending-home-more-money-than-ever

 

[TheParser]

"B," of course.

The President was elected by people throughout the nation. He speaks for all of us.


Nancy was elected in her small Congressional district. She speaks only for the people who made the unwise decision to vote for her.

 

[washunut]

A fee on money sent to Mexico? How many people send money to Mexico? How long would it take for those fees to pay for a wall likely to cost upwards of $40 billion?

In 2016 over $25 billion was remitted. A 10% fee would bring in $2.5 annually. Not sure where the $40 Billion comes from. Probably a phantom number,not one for what is currently contemplated.

 

[jet57]

What is the proper order of events that need to occur to create a satisfactory deal ending the current government shutdown?

A) open the government first then work on immigration reform seperatly?

B) funding the “border wall has to be included in any deal that opens the government.

Trump has to open up government that he shut down in a fit; that's first. Then he has to forget about this wall thing, it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Idiometer]

This article appears to answer most of your questions, the rest could be calculated from the numbers presented:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/02/10/514172676/mexicans-in-the-u-s-are-sending-home-more-money-than-ever

Thank you.

So, doing the math based on the 2016 figure of $69 billion, 40% of which went to Mexoco, that's about $27.6 billion. If we taxed that at a whopping 10%, that would be $2.76 billion per year. Cost of the wall estimated at $40 billion minimum, that would take about 15 years if the economy holds up. That doesn't sound like a workable deal. Besides, as soon as we begin taxing those temittance to the old homeland, they would simply find other ways to send it, like wrapping it up inside packages of other items and shipping it.

 

[plutonium]

The wall is a monument to Trump nothing else!!!! money is better spent on border on electronic surveillance and hiring border agents. Any intelligent person knows this!!!! build a 20ft wall... get a 21 foot ladder ... i guess since mexico said they wont build a wall the american tax payer should be forced to build the trump monument. no one has discussed who's american property will be cut or taken from them to build wall on!!!

 

[plutonium]

Quit F--king blaming Democrats for Trump shutdown you people messed up own it!!!! Wont take responsibility for nothing..... Just like Trump daaa this shutdown not working to good i better switch blame from me to the democrats!!!!lol

 

[Moderate Right]

What is the proper order of events that need to occur to create a satisfactory deal ending the current government shutdown?

A) open the government first then work on immigration reform seperatly?

B) funding the “border wall has to be included in any deal that opens the government.

There is no such thing as negotiation for a wall. Democrats have repeatedly said no wall. Why do you guys have to be so dishonest? If you are willing to let Trump have a wall then it can all be negotiated together.

 

[cabse5]

Demanding that the border wall be funded in any deal that reopens the government.

Rather, the hostage taking is the dems demanding that, instead of using every means to secure the border, they have eliminated walls. What are dems' goals when it comes to border security? Are dems for border security or do they have vested interests in chain link fences, for example?

 

[Integrityrespec]

It's obvious that opening the partial government shutdown would not result any any resolution of funding a wall. Democrats want all they want and nothing in return. They could get gains on DACA and on immigration by giving the President what he wants on wall funding. If the President opens government the democrats will not negotiate in any good faith for a compromise on wall funding. So the President has to hold out for his wall funding. I wish some democrat would explain how Pelosi's refusal to fund a wall is any different than Trumps demands for a wall? She only wants what she wants, what is good for her politically. She is appealing to her far left base and the far left members of the House who would not have voted for her as speaker if she gave in on the wall. Her power.