Well, As Expected SCOTUS HAS Struck Down Roe

[AZRWinger]

I'm afraid this may start a civil war

Too late. A civil war has been underway since Trump won the Presidency.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

See, your facile logic here is you assume Roe/Casey is a analogous to your ambiguous “all sorts of rulings that aren’t in the Constitution.” Yet, no one, yourself included at the moment, can actually assess the veracity of your comparison because it is a complete mystery presently as to what those “all sorts of rulings” say.

Gay marriage.

 

[Spunkylama]

Too late. A civil war has been underway since Trump won the Presidency.

 

[lurchadams]

You are misreading the paragraph.

It plainly says the law only applies to anyone getting an abortion in TEXAS. That's what""

"SB 8 allows any private citizen in Texas, or elsewhere, to sue anyone who performs an abortion in the state after an embryo’s cardiac activity can be detected."

means.

What you've bolded seems to be about what courts have jurisdiction though it's confusingly written.

Here's the actual law. https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/87R/billtext/pdf/HB01515I.pdf

Oh, in TX. Ok. So if your neighbor knows you're planning to travel out of state to get an abortion you're just fine?

 

[Gaius46]

Oh, in TX. Ok. So if your neighbor knows you're planning to travel out of state to get an abortion you're just fine?

Yep. Your neighbor could even drive you and not be in any trouble. The real issue tbh is with poor people who can't afford to drive to a different state - which considering how big Texas is could mean taking a day or two off from work just for travel plus maybe springing for a hotel.. So Texas winds up with lots of poor people having babies they can't afford to have. It's beyond stupid to be honest.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Abortion rights draw roots from the same constitutional right to privacy that is the foundation for other intimate personal decisions Americans now take for granted.
Gay rights, marriage equality, contraceptives, interracial marriage, all of these center around privacy rights and are accepted under privacy rights as basic human rights.

RW SCOTUS justices are apparently very skeptical that any of these rights to privacy exist due to "textualist" arguments that "the Constitution makes no reference to privacy", to which I raise objection because the Fourth Amendment speaks of the right to be secure in ones person and personal effects.
It also springs from something legal scholars refer to as "substantive due process" and from that one gets the right to privacy. Even parental autonomy is rooted in the right to privacy.
This latest salvo on Roe sends shock waves directly to the core of all of these other rulings by attacking the fundamental concept of the right to privacy.

Conservative legal activists Adam Mortara and Jonathan Mitchell, argued that Lawrence and Obergefell, while far less hazardous to human life, are as lawless as Roe. I see nothing that precludes
a similar attack on Loving v. Virginia.
I see nothing that precludes attacks on any or all cases based on substantive due process.

This leads us to a painted in corner where the only basis for ANYTHING in the Constitution is pure textualism.
In 2017, Neil Gorsuch, argued states could restrict birth certificates of same-sex parents.
How much potential to wreak havoc by tyranny of the minority is there in a rejection of Roe?
We're about to find out.

 

[AZRWinger]

The decision has been leaked. This is the continuation of the authoritarian, Republican culture war. Elite Republicans against everyone else. I've said many times, Republican or Democrat, if you have the money and you want an abortion, you're going to get one.

Making little girls carry their incest and rape babies to term? Lets see how that goes. I believe this is the "push" Democrats need to maintain the houses. Women, even conservative women aren't going to put up with this, IMO.

Exclusive: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft circulated inside the court.

www.politico.com

The Democrat partisan hysteria continues to spread distortions and lies. The leaked draft opinion if accurate, would return abortion regulation to the states where horror of horrors, elected officials would decide abortion laws. It's no surprise Democrats, the true authorians, are engaged in a campaign to end the filibuster as a pretext to codification of Roe. Of course the filibuster will be permanently discarded.

 

[lurchadams]

The Democrat partisan hysteria continues to spread distortions and lies. The leaked draft opinion if accurate, would return abortion regulation to the states where horror of horrors, elected officials would decide abortion laws. It's no surprise Democrats, the true authorians, are engaged in a campaign to end the filibuster as a pretext to codification of Roe. Of course the filibuster will be permanently discarded.

It's not hysteria. It's a demonstration that SCOTUS has turned into a right-wing thugfest imposing their minority will on others.

Let's see how non-hysterical you are when the Dems are back in power, pack the courts and dispense with all this wing-nut authoritarianism you're so very fond of.

 

[Perotista]

The decision has been leaked. This is the continuation of the authoritarian, Republican culture war. Elite Republicans against everyone else. I've said many times, Republican or Democrat, if you have the money and you want an abortion, you're going to get one.

Making little girls carry their incest and rape babies to term? Lets see how that goes. I believe this is the "push" Democrats need to maintain the houses. Women, even conservative women aren't going to put up with this, IMO.

Exclusive: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft circulated inside the court.

www.politico.com

Abortion has been pretty much a non-issue to me. Inflation, rising prices, empty store shelves, thinning to flat wallet is much more important to me. But this isn’t final, it hasn’t happened yet, what was leaked was a draft with many drafts happening before this one and many more drafts will come after this one. There’s nothing official about the draft. Call it a what if draft.

Even if Roe V Wade goes away, Abortion doesn’t. It’ll be left up to the states to decide. This would put abortion back into the political arena. Some states, abortion would be legal, some illegal. You act as if abortion is being outlawed, it isn’t. It will still be with us if there is truth to the draft and if the ruling goes according to the draft. Which there isn’t any guarantee that it will.

For me, the bottom line is the condition of my wallet will determine how I vote this midterm. Everything else is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[NotreDame]

Gay marriage.

Okay. And so, if this decision can rightly be said to be an erroneous decision because the plain text meaning doesn’t support the decision, you think this permits Roe/Casey? Because if Obergefell suffers the same flaw as Roe, and it does, then Obergefell doesn’t rationally support what the Roe/Casey decisions. And the argument against Roe, Casey, and Obergefell isn’t the rights are not expressly stated in the Constitution hence, they do not exist but rather the privacy/liberty rights of those decisions are not supported by the plain text meaning of the 14th amendment DPC, which necessarily includes expressly or implied.

The derision is the cases were wrongly decided because the plain text of the Constitution does not support the decision, and this argument isn’t repudiated, refuted, or rebutted by referring to another decision where the Court’s interpretation doesn’t adhere to the plain text meaning.

Unless of course, the logic of they’ve ignored or departed from the plain text meaning before therefore, the Court is justified ignoring/departing from the plain text again is a sensible and rational logic.

But if such logic is sensible, then it follows the Court may depart from the plain text meaning and say Congress may abridge the freedom of speech. After all, the Court hasn’t followed the plain text meaning before, so they may do so again regarding the free speech clause.

Which is why it is necessary to actually address the facts, the evidence, which is the text of the Constitution, to justify the Courts decisions, Roe and Casey included. Your argument thus far conspicuously avoids addressing the relevant facts and evidence, the text of the Constitution, and instead defends a decision because the Court has done it before logic.

 

[lurchadams]

Abortion rights draw roots from the same constitutional right to privacy that is the foundation for other intimate personal decisions Americans now take for granted.
Gay rights, marriage equality, contraceptives, interracial marriage, all of these center around privacy rights and are accepted under privacy rights as basic human rights.

RW SCOTUS justices are apparently very skeptical that any of these rights to privacy exist due to "textualist" arguments that "the Constitution makes no reference to privacy", to which I raise objection because the Fourth Amendment speaks of the right to be secure in ones person and personal effects.
It also springs from something legal scholars refer to as "substantive due process" and from that one gets the right to privacy. Even parental autonomy is rooted in the right to privacy.
This latest salvo on Roe sends shock waves directly to the core of all of these other rulings by attacking the fundamental concept of the right to privacy.

Conservative legal activists Adam Mortara and Jonathan Mitchell, argued that Lawrence and Obergefell, while far less hazardous to human life, are as lawless as Roe. I see nothing that precludes
a similar attack on Loving v. Virginia.
I see nothing that precludes attacks on any or all cases based on substantive due process.

This leads us to a painted in corner where the only basis for ANYTHING in the Constitution is pure textualism.
In 2017, Neil Gorsuch, argued states could restrict birth certificates of same-sex parents.
How much potential to wreak havoc by tyranny of the minority is there in a rejection of Roe?
We're about to find out.

What I find amazing is that although abortion has been a constitutionally granted right for half a century, all our con right-wing nut friends are citing the constitution as if that's their "trump" card (pardon the pun). But they are defeated by their own argument.

SCOTUS's decision, if real, defies the constitution. SCOTUS, now is just an arm of the Republican party and the religious right. Only 30% of the nation agrees with what SCOTUS is doing. That's pretty extraordinary!!!

 

[lurchadams]

Abortion has been pretty much a non-issue to me. Inflation, rising prices, empty store shelves, thinning to flat wallet is much more important to me. But this isn’t final, it hasn’t happened yet, what was leaked was a draft with many drafts happening before this one and many more drafts will come after this one. There’s nothing official about the draft. Call it a what if draft.

Even if Roe V Wade goes away, Abortion doesn’t. It’ll be left up to the states to decide. This would put abortion back into the political arena. Some states, abortion would be legal, some illegal. You act as if abortion is being outlawed, it isn’t. It will still be with us if there is truth to the draft and if the ruling goes according to the draft. Which there isn’t any guarantee that it will.

For me, the bottom line is the condition of my wallet will determine how I vote this midterm. Everything else is pretty much irrelevant.

Well, you're not a pregnant woman wondering how, now that her future plans are quashed and she has to be a mom, by law - what is she going to do? I know. You don't care. That's the problem.

 

[Spunkylama]

It's not hysteria. It's a demonstration that SCOTUS has turned into a right-wing thugfest imposing their minority will on others.

Let's see how non-hysterical you are when the Dems are back in power, pack the courts and dispense with all this wing-nut authoritarianism you're so very fond of.

Yes, since people cannot be trusted to make their own medical decisions and they want the states to tell people what to do...
This opens the door for states to force people to get vaccinated. They best be careful what they wish for..

 

[Spunkylama]

Well, you're not a pregnant woman wondering how, now that her future plans are quashed and she has to be a mom, by law - what is she going to do? I know. You don't care. That's the problem.

I'm guessing that person doesn't have a daughter or grandchildren. Otherwise they'd care...normally

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Abortion has been pretty much a non-issue to me. Inflation, rising prices, empty store shelves, thinning to flat wallet is much more important to me. But this isn’t final, it hasn’t happened yet, what was leaked was a draft with many drafts happening before this one and many more drafts will come after this one. There’s nothing official about the draft. Call it a what if draft.

Even if Roe V Wade goes away, Abortion doesn’t. It’ll be left up to the states to decide. This would put abortion back into the political arena. Some states, abortion would be legal, some illegal. You act as if abortion is being outlawed, it isn’t. It will still be with us if there is truth to the draft and if the ruling goes according to the draft. Which there isn’t any guarantee that it will.

For me, the bottom line is the condition of my wallet will determine how I vote this midterm. Everything else is pretty much irrelevant.

If you are married and you guys are of child rearing age, would you feel different if either or both of you did not want to HAVE more kids?
Sure, you don't care because it doesn't affect you directly, we get it.
The idea of civilized society rests in part in the notion that we all have some investment in various laws even when they do not directly apply to us.
Both my kids are fully grown adults now so I could try getting away with saying that public schools aren't an issue for me either.
But they are, because I don't want to be in the hands of a generation of morons and criminals in my declining years due to lack of proper education.

Also, the manner in which Roe is about to be overturned impacts a bunch of other SCOTUS decisions.

 

[lurchadams]

I'm guessing that person doesn't have a daughter or grandchildren. Otherwise they'd care...normally

This sketch that Cecily Strong did had a real, emotional impact on me, personally. My perception of what she's saying is that had she been forced to carry her fetus to term in her early 20's her life would have been destroyed as she knows it. She doesn't want to talk about it, but she feels that everyone's making her. The bottom line is that women are being used as a ping pong ball in a fight between normal people and the religious right and she wishes they'd ****ing stop. Try to watch it, if you can.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The Democrat partisan hysteria continues to spread distortions and lies. The leaked draft opinion if accurate, would return abortion regulation to the states where horror of horrors, elected officials would decide abortion laws. It's no surprise Democrats, the true authorians, are engaged in a campaign to end the filibuster as a pretext to codification of Roe. Of course the filibuster will be permanently discarded.

There's something that is not in the Constitution either, three cheers for the Democratic Party textualist approach to filibusters.

 

[AZRWinger]

There are always going to be leaks my friend. Are you just angry we found out? It's not like it's a national security issue? Why do you care about the leak?

No, SCOTUS draft opinions aren't leaked "always". If you have evidence, please present it.

A leak of a draft SCOTUS opinion is unprecedented just as a Biden appointee to the SCOTUS bench is unprecedented. Justice Brown demonstrated her ignorance of case law and a shocking tendency to determine cases based on her political beliefs instead of the law. It's difficult to imagine Justice Brown making headway with persuading other Justices but sabotage by leaking is well within her capabilities.

 

[lurchadams]

No, SCOTUS draft opinions aren't leaked "always". If you have evidence, please present it.

A leak of a draft SCOTUS opinion is unprecedented just as a Biden appointee to the SCOTUS bench is unprecedented. Justice Brown demonstrated her ignorance of case law and a shocking tendency to determine cases based on her political beliefs instead of the law. It's difficult to imagine Justice Brown making headway with persuading other Justices but sabotage by leaking is well within her capabilities.

Oh, man. Your posts tell me exactly who you are. Justice Brown is one of the most highly credentialed justices on the court. Your attacking her demonstrates only your hatred of anyone who disagrees with your authoritarian rule.

 

[pragmatic]

The decision has been leaked. This is the continuation of the authoritarian, Republican culture war. Elite Republicans against everyone else. I've said many times, Republican or Democrat, if you have the money and you want an abortion, you're going to get one.

Making little girls carry their incest and rape babies to term? Lets see how that goes. I believe this is the "push" Democrats need to maintain the houses. Women, even conservative women aren't going to put up with this, IMO.

Exclusive: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows

“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft circulated inside the court.

www.politico.com

Your statement is incorrect. No decision has yet been made by the court.

A draft from last February was (mysteriously?) leaked to a political website. In a month or so we will/should see what the actual Supreme Court decision is. For now we basically have a lot of speculation and random outrage.

Let's wait for the real thing and then get excited.

..

 

[AZRWinger]

The effect of gerrymandering has been shown to have worked out for our Republicans. It amazes me how Republicans celebrate the abolition of abortion but lament the abolition of slavery. I don't think that's a coincidence. Outlawing abortion has the effect of enslaving people.

The comment displays profound ignorance. Slavery and Jim Crow segregation were created and maintained by Democrats. The Confederacy was created in opposition to abolishinist President Lincoln founder of the Republican party. Democrats historically supported segregation.

For states courageous enough to ban abortion it will be life saving for unborn children. Without life there can be no freedom.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

There will be Roe friendly states and non-Roe friendly states for a while.
The unfriendly ones have no doubt got it in their heads that they can bully Roe states into obeying their demands, and without a doubt
they will attempt to bully their own residents into obeying state law OUTSIDE OF that state.
Naturally that will lead to another constitutional crisis with far reaching implications no matter how it is resolved or handled.

We are drifting farther and farther apart into two separate nations with every poisoned SCOTUS ruling.
It will also be interesting first time a state like, say perhaps Texas, tells California how to go about their affairs and California telling Texas to go fork themselves. No doubt that will be repeated amongst the several opposing states for quite a while.

Luckily Colorado still respects individual's rights in the United States of America.

 

[lurchadams]

The comment displays profound ignorance. Slavery and Jim Crow segregation were created and maintained by Democrats. The Confederacy was created in opposition to abolishinist President Lincoln founder of the Republican party. Democrats historically supported segregation.

For states courageous enough to ban abortion it will be life saving for unborn children. Without life there can be no freedom.

Yeah, this is the gaslighting you and the rest of the right-wing do. Yes, 100 years ago, southern Democrats were racist pieces of shit. That was 100 year ago. These days racism has switched parties - the Democrats who are trying to protect our rights and Republicans who are trying to do away with them.


Nice try. Fail, tho - as usual, my friend.

 

[lurchadams]

Your statement is incorrect. No decision has yet been made by the court.

A draft from last February was (mysteriously?) leaked to a political website. In a month or so we will/should see what the actual Supreme Court decision is. For now we basically have a lot of speculation and random outrage.

Let's wait for the real thing and then get excited.

..

Ok. I'll wait. I'm pretty sure I know what's going to happen, but I'll wait, my adorable friend.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

The Democrat partisan hysteria continues to spread distortions and lies. The leaked draft opinion if accurate, would return abortion regulation to the states where horror of horrors, elected officials would decide abortion laws. It's no surprise Democrats, the true authorians, are engaged in a campaign to end the filibuster as a pretext to codification of Roe. Of course the filibuster will be permanently discarded

LOL, you people spout the same moronic, factless shit over and over. You are projecting again like every right wing terrorist