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We Missed The Warning Signs....... AGAIN

RetiredUSN

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It seems that the Orlando shooter had a history of violence, hate speech, and threats.

His first wife left him in 2009 when her family rescued her from routine beatings? (according to her words in this article) Why where the beatings not reported?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?tid=sm_tw

Former co-worker at G4S security quit after the company refused to address Mateen's racial and gay threats. They ignored the complaints, and the former co-worker ended up quitting after Mateen stalked him on his cell phone. Why didn't the co-worker or the security company not report Mateen?
Former Coworker of ISIS Killer Omar Mateen: Employer Did Nothing About His Homophobic-Racist Comments Cuz He Was Muslim

He was on the terrorist watch list and then removed? (I tried some research on this but only found a few sources)
Omar Mateen was taken off a terrorist watch list, but keeping him on it wouldn't have stopped him from buying guns - LA Times

History of mental illness and "roid rage" according to his ex. Again, why didn't she report him?
Orlando Gunman'''s Ex-Wife: '''He Had a History With Steroids,''' Mental Illness - NBC News

Two investigations by the FBI?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/u...-abuse-and-suspected-terrorist-ties.html?_r=0

Mateen's father hosted a anti American talk show, and openly supported the Taliban.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-bizarre-anti-us-talk-show-article-1.2670939
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/


I think a lot of people could have had a hand in preventing the Pulse Nightclub shooting. Why didn't they react beforehand and report this creep?
 

Gaztopian

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It's part lethargy, part fear, and bad governance is to blame for both. People are happy to delegate responsibility to others because they have no interest in going through the red tape for an act of public service. Furthermore, they fear the authorities' habitual perversity and ineptitude that may result in them accruing a penalty for attempting to do good.
 

chromium

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the warning signs weren't missed, he was interviewed by the fbi twice. He just was allowed to acquire his weapons of death regardless as if he had no clear intention to hurt a fly

to all the gun nuts on this forum who insist that it's only illegally acquired guns that are used in crime: well the worst mass shooting in american history just blew up that fat lie. I don't need to hear about motorcycle gangs importing illegal weapons. A complete loser such as this would never have gotten his hands on an AR if he couldn't just waltz into a random store. And the NRA will *still* put up every barrier possible to expanding background checks, much less banning totally non self defense weapons like the AR, because their hatred of victims knows no end

Killers in mass shootings used AR-15, thanks to NRA - NY Daily News

ISIS and the NRA, two peas in a pod
 

chromium

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It's part lethargy, part fear, and bad governance is to blame for both. People are happy to delegate responsibility to others because they have no interest in going through the red tape for an act of public service. Furthermore, they fear the authorities' habitual perversity and ineptitude that may result in them accruing a penalty for attempting to do good.

well then we have no need for the fbi or terror watch list i guess, may as well shut it down
 

truthatallcost

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One word: Islamophobia.

They've successfully created an environment of fear through the use of racial extortion.

If Muslims were blonde haired and blue eyed, we wouldn't have all these liberal muppets repeating their robotic mantra of "..but they're not all like that".
 

Crovax

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the warning signs weren't missed, he was interviewed by the fbi twice. He just was allowed to acquire his weapons of death regardless as if he had no clear intention to hurt a fly

to all the gun nuts on this forum who insist that it's only illegally acquired guns that are used in crime: well the worst mass shooting in american history just blew up that fat lie. I don't need to hear about motorcycle gangs importing illegal weapons. A complete loser such as this would never have gotten his hands on an AR if he couldn't just waltz into a random store. And the NRA will *still* put up every barrier possible to expanding background checks, much less banning totally non self defense weapons like the AR, because their hatred of victims knows no end

Killers in mass shootings used AR-15, thanks to NRA - NY Daily News

ISIS and the NRA, two peas in a pod

How exactly would you stop someone who has not been charged or found guilty of any crimes from exercising a constitutional right?
 

chromium

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How exactly would you stop someone who has not been charged or found guilty of any crimes from exercising a constitutional right?

i do not see it a constitutional right - and if so, it should be repealed - to purchase weapons of mass destruction like an AR any more than to purchase a nuclear weapon

he was also on the terror watch list, which is goddamn useless if it doesn't incorporate weapon restrictions

unlike you, i don't wish to wait for the blood of innocents before doing something that could have prevented it
 

Gaztopian

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the warning signs weren't missed, he was interviewed by the fbi twice. He just was allowed to acquire his weapons of death regardless as if he had no clear intention to hurt a fly

to all the gun nuts on this forum who insist that it's only illegally acquired guns that are used in crime: well the worst mass shooting in american history just blew up that fat lie. I don't need to hear about motorcycle gangs importing illegal weapons. A complete loser such as this would never have gotten his hands on an AR if he couldn't just waltz into a random store. And the NRA will *still* put up every barrier possible to expanding background checks, much less banning totally non self defense weapons like the AR, because their hatred of victims knows no end

Killers in mass shootings used AR-15, thanks to NRA - NY Daily News

ISIS and the NRA, two peas in a pod

Now that you mention it, had it not been for the deranged gun laws of the U.S, this creep would've probably ended up getting life in prison for a pathetic knife attack on the club that the bouncer alone would've prevented.

As some other user said in the original topic of the incident, Sandy Hook effectively put an end to the gun control debate, and we should've heeded. Once the country did nothing after a maniac slaughtered schoolchildren in class, it threw up its hands and resigned.
 

joG

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It seems that the Orlando shooter had a history of violence, hate speech, and threats.

His first wife left him in 2009 when her family rescued her from routine beatings? (according to her words in this article) Why where the beatings not reported?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?tid=sm_tw

Former co-worker at G4S security quit after the company refused to address Mateen's racial and gay threats. They ignored the complaints, and the former co-worker ended up quitting after Mateen stalked him on his cell phone. Why didn't the co-worker or the security company not report Mateen?
Former Coworker of ISIS Killer Omar Mateen: Employer Did Nothing About His Homophobic-Racist Comments Cuz He Was Muslim

He was on the terrorist watch list and then removed? (I tried some research on this but only found a few sources)
Omar Mateen was taken off a terrorist watch list, but keeping him on it wouldn't have stopped him from buying guns - LA Times

History of mental illness and "roid rage" according to his ex. Again, why didn't she report him?
Orlando Gunman'''s Ex-Wife: '''He Had a History With Steroids,''' Mental Illness - NBC News

Two investigations by the FBI?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/u...-abuse-and-suspected-terrorist-ties.html?_r=0

Mateen's father hosted a anti American talk show, and openly supported the Taliban.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-bizarre-anti-us-talk-show-article-1.2670939
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/


I think a lot of people could have had a hand in preventing the Pulse Nightclub shooting. Why didn't they react beforehand and report this creep?

Why don't we do a good job in data mining? The answer is that we do. It is not enough to prevent every attack. Especially, where the attacker is a standalone crazy the probability of missing the one in a million individual whose characteristics pop up unspectacularly. This is partly because the numbers that would allow more specific identification of probables cannot be collected and partially because the technology needs more development.

But the main problem is probably that we approach data mining by government from the wrong viewpoint of protection of civil rights by reducing the means of government. That is not only counter productive but a fools' game as the technology has become stronger and will certainly be used against us. If we put more thought into how to put checks on the people that do the mining and strengthen the balances against the organizations that will use the intelligence to protect us, we would probably do much better.
 

Gaztopian

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How exactly would you stop someone who has not been charged or found guilty of any crimes from exercising a constitutional right?

A two-and-a-half century old document that fails to adapt is a worthless document. Given the firepower of today's easily available weapons, that amendment should be repealed or at the very least amended. And unless you believe the constitution is written in holy writ, the proposal shouldn't dismay you.
 

RabidAlpaca

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the warning signs weren't missed, he was interviewed by the fbi twice. He just was allowed to acquire his weapons of death regardless as if he had no clear intention to hurt a fly

to all the gun nuts on this forum who insist that it's only illegally acquired guns that are used in crime: well the worst mass shooting in american history just blew up that fat lie. I don't need to hear about motorcycle gangs importing illegal weapons. A complete loser such as this would never have gotten his hands on an AR if he couldn't just waltz into a random store. And the NRA will *still* put up every barrier possible to expanding background checks, much less banning totally non self defense weapons like the AR, because their hatred of victims knows no end

Killers in mass shootings used AR-15, thanks to NRA - NY Daily News

ISIS and the NRA, two peas in a pod

The gun nutter right: We want to destroy ISIS and radical islamists, but we still want them to have unfettered access to any weapon they choose.

How exactly would you stop someone who has not been charged or found guilty of any crimes from exercising a constitutional right?

The 6 major red flags listed in the OP would be a good start.
 
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joG

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Now that you mention it, had it not been for the deranged gun laws of the U.S, this creep would've probably ended up getting life in prison for a pathetic knife attack on the club that the bouncer alone would've prevented.

As some other user said in the original topic of the incident, Sandy Hook effectively put an end to the gun control debate, and we should've heeded. Once the country did nothing after a maniac slaughtered schoolchildren in class, it threw up its hands and resigned.

In Europe the restrictions on gun ownership are rather stronger than in the US. Nonetheless, the British, Spaniards or French have learned that that is no real protection. You can buy a Kalashnikov in the back streets of Aix La Chapel or Lyon for Euros 2.000 I am told. And sure, a knife attack only does three or even only one hit, but as we know, the Israeli have had a problem with that too.

My suspicion is, that the quick and obvious reflexes are fine for populist politics and drunken discussions in the bar. But they will not touch on the problem, without causing problems of a much larger magnitude than the ones we are now facing.
 

joG

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The gun nutter right: We want to destroy ISIS and radical islamists, but we still want them to have full access to any weapon they choose.

I am against people having weapons of any kind, if those guy are my enemies.
 

Gaztopian

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In Europe the restrictions on gun ownership are rather stronger than in the US. Nonetheless, the British, Spaniards or French have learned that that is no real protection. You can buy a Kalashnikov in the back streets of Aix La Chapel or Lyon for Euros 2.000 I am told. And sure, a knife attack only does three or even only one hit, but as we know, the Israeli have had a problem with that too.

Is that right? last time I checked, the UK, Spain, and France don't have more than one mass shooting a day all year long.

My suspicion is, that the quick and obvious reflexes are fine for populist politics and drunken discussions in the bar. But they will not touch on the problem, without causing problems of a much larger magnitude than the ones we are now facing.

Trite and passe. The "let's focus on the problem instead of politicizing" shtick doesn't fool anyone anymore. The U.S has a serious guns problem that's caused by selfish and maladaptive obsession with guns and merciless special interest. Until the country is ready to remedy the former and stand up to the latter, we'll continue to witness one mass-shooting after the other.
 

HonestJoe

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His first wife left him in 2009 when her family rescued her from routine beatings? (according to her words in this article) Why where the beatings not reported?
Violence within marriage is scarily common and often never reported. Even if it is reported, there is often little authorities can actually do because definitive evidence is difficult to establish.

Former co-worker at G4S security quit after the company refused to address Mateen's racial and gay threats. They ignored the complaints, and the former co-worker ended up quitting after Mateen stalked him on his cell phone. Why didn't the co-worker or the security company not report Mateen?
Discrimination against gay workers (and on many other grounds) is again, not uncommon and companies not wanting to make a big thing of it also sadly not uncommon.

He was on the terrorist watch list and then removed? (I tried some research on this but only found a few sources)
It’s not clear he was even on any list but was apparently questioned by the FBI. Presumably they didn’t put him on any watch list because they found no evidence to support doing so. It’s perfectly possible that there was no evidence at that time. He could have had no terrorist connections then, he could have had no terrorist connections at the time of the shooting. It’s perfectly possible that they missed something but the fact he subsequently carried out an apparently lone attack doesn’t prove that.

History of mental illness and "roid rage" according to his ex. Again, why didn't she report him?
To whom? Yet again, this kind of thing isn’t uncommon and most people don’t report friends of family they know are suffering these kind of problems, either due to a flawed moral against reporting to authorities in general, a belief it nobody will help anyway (with some justification unfortunately) or simply not knowing who to report it to.

Mateen's father hosted a anti American talk show, and openly supported the Taliban.
Sins of the father…

I think a lot of people could have had a hand in preventing the Pulse Nightclub shooting. Why didn't they react beforehand and report this creep?
Even if all the claims now being made are all completely true and unexaggerated (which I doubt), we’re working with the benefit of hindsight, with a full view of the experiences of multiple people over a long period of time. There may well have been better responses some individuals and organisations could have made in certain situations but I’m not convinced any of those would have prevented him from subsequently becoming willing and able to carry out this kind of attack. It’s also perfectly possible that things like divorce, sacking, being challenged on mental health issues or being interviewed by the FBI become driving factors in incidents like this as much as they can be preventative.
 

Crovax

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A two-and-a-half century old document that fails to adapt is a worthless document. Given the firepower of today's easily available weapons, that amendment should be repealed or at the very least amended. And unless you believe the constitution is written in holy writ, the proposal shouldn't dismay you.

Go for it

Gonzales_Come_and_Take_It.png
 

Crovax

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i do not see it a constitutional right - and if so, it should be repealed - to purchase weapons of mass destruction like an AR any more than to purchase a nuclear weapon

You are a fool if you dont think that a semi automatic handgun cant be just as destructive as an AR for a mass shooting

he was also on the terror watch list, which is goddamn useless if it doesn't incorporate weapon restrictions

Which rights should be arbitrarily taken away from people on that list? 8th amendment? we could torture the **** out of them until they told us their plans. 5th amendment? we could hold them indefinitely without counsel, that would certainly stop some terror attacks 1st amendment? if they couldnt be a muslim they certainly wouldnt be able to commit islamic terror.

unlike you, i don't wish to wait for the blood of innocents before doing something that could have prevented it

Strawman much?

Locking every single american in a solitary cell would solve all our crime problems, if you dont support this and even 1 person is murdered their blood is on your hands. Well at least it would be according to your twisted sense of morality.
 

Moot

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How exactly would you stop someone who has not been charged or found guilty of any crimes from exercising a constitutional right?

I think that's the point...why wasn't this guy charged with domestic violence and denied the right to own a gun?
 

chromium

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You are a fool if you dont think that a semi automatic handgun cant be just as destructive as an AR for a mass shooting



Which rights should be arbitrarily taken away from people on that list? 8th amendment? we could torture the **** out of them until they told us their plans. 5th amendment? we could hold them indefinitely without counsel, that would certainly stop some terror attacks 1st amendment? if they couldnt be a muslim they certainly wouldnt be able to commit islamic terror.



Strawman much?

Locking every single american in a solitary cell would solve all our crime problems, if you dont support this and even 1 person is murdered their blood is on your hands. Well at least it would be according to your twisted sense of morality.

i don't debate or negotiate with terrorists or terrorist enablers, sorry
 

Crovax

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I think that's the point...why wasn't this guy charged with domestic violence and denied the right to own a gun?

I agree thats the OPs point, but those saying that ISIS and the NRA are in league are just ridiculous
 

Crovax

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i don't debate or negotiate with terrorists or terrorist enablers, sorry

You mean you cant refute any of my points so you have stooped to personal insults.
 

joG

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Is that right? last time I checked, the UK, Spain, and France don't have more than one mass shooting a day all year long.



Trite and passe. The "let's focus on the problem instead of politicizing" shtick doesn't fool anyone anymore. The U.S has a serious guns problem that's caused by selfish and maladaptive obsession with guns and merciless special interest. Until the country is ready to remedy the former and stand up to the latter, we'll continue to witness one mass-shooting after the other.

No. They do not have as many shootings. That probably has more to do, however, with the socialization and other aspects of their societies, than with the availability of weapons in the populations. At least the statistics I did myself and the analysis I have seen would indicate this. The number of weapons are not the issue. Sure it makes sense to an unthinking person that fewer weapons are the root cause for their use in acts of violence. That is because it is more difficult to understand the violence, while simplistic structures of thought pop up more means more. It needs no thinking, no education, no analysis. That does not make it right.

There was a study circled recently that was purported to prove that more weapons meant more killings. It was talked up to be the largest and grandest study ever and conclusive. I looked at the thing rather closely, but found that even in the summary the gun control advocates had chosen to ignore that the scientists said that it did not confirm the more weapons more killings hypothesis. It did not measure the indicators that would have been necessary to make that possible. So, if you have more than hearsay and "I figger" arguments or better still research, I am game and promise to read it and think about, what I read.
 

Gaztopian

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No. They do not have as many shootings. That probably has more to do, however, with the socialization and other aspects of their societies, than with the availability of weapons in the populations. At least the statistics I did myself and the analysis I have seen would indicate this. The number of weapons are not the issue. Sure it makes sense to an unthinking person that fewer weapons are the root cause for their use in acts of violence. That is because it is more difficult to understand the violence, while simplistic structures of thought pop up more means more. It needs no thinking, no education, no analysis. That does not make it right.

There was a study circled recently that was purported to prove that more weapons meant more killings. It was talked up to be the largest and grandest study ever and conclusive. I looked at the thing rather closely, but found that even in the summary the gun control advocates had chosen to ignore that the scientists said that it did not confirm the more weapons more killings hypothesis. It did not measure the indicators that would have been necessary to make that possible. So, if you have more than hearsay and "I figger" arguments or better still research, I am game and promise to read it and think about, what I read.

Rofl.
 

Moot

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I agree thats the OPs point, but those saying that ISIS and the NRA are in league are just ridiculous

I dunno...why is it so easy for the mentally deranged and ISIS sympathizers to get guns in the US? Follow the money.
 
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