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We Missed The Warning Signs....... AGAIN

joG

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That is a frequent response to technical questions from those that love to talk the talk but unwilling to walk the walk.
 

Gaztopian

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That is a frequent response to technical questions from those that love to talk the talk but unwilling to walk the walk.


Forgive this unthinking person for receiving your post as satire.
 

Crovax

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I dunno...why is it so easy for the mentally deranged and ISIS sympathizers to get guns in the US? Follow the money.

Or you could just read the constitution...
 

Manc Skipper

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The maths are very simple. Americans own half the privately held guns in the world. Five per cent of the global population owns half the guns. The country is awash with them.
 

HowardBThiname

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Now that you mention it, had it not been for the deranged gun laws of the U.S, this creep would've probably ended up getting life in prison for a pathetic knife attack on the club that the bouncer alone would've prevented.

You must be unaware that the weapon of choice for terrorists in many countries is an explosive vest. Alternately -- if they don't want to die -- they just leave pressure cooker bombs by marathons.
 

blackjack50

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the warning signs weren't missed, he was interviewed by the fbi twice. He just was allowed to acquire his weapons of death regardless as if he had no clear intention to hurt a fly

to all the gun nuts on this forum who insist that it's only illegally acquired guns that are used in crime: well the worst mass shooting in american history just blew up that fat lie. I don't need to hear about motorcycle gangs importing illegal weapons. A complete loser such as this would never have gotten his hands on an AR if he couldn't just waltz into a random store. And the NRA will *still* put up every barrier possible to expanding background checks, much less banning totally non self defense weapons like the AR, because their hatred of victims knows no end

Killers in mass shootings used AR-15, thanks to NRA - NY Daily News

ISIS and the NRA, two peas in a pod

So tell us...in spite of the clear warning signs...you are saying government will protect us even though they didn't? **** that. If the government would have done their job, nobody would have died either.

But as usual, they have no duty to protect you. Just their own ass. That is why Hillary is still surrounded by the fully automatic versions of ar15s and probably other high quality firearms. Go figure.
 

countryboy

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Now that you mention it, had it not been for the deranged gun laws of the U.S, this creep would've probably ended up getting life in prison for a pathetic knife attack on the club that the bouncer alone would've prevented.

Right, because someone hell bent on mayhem and destruction would never consider breaking the law. :roll:

Do grabbers ever think these things through? :doh
 

ttwtt78640

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I think that's the point...why wasn't this guy charged with domestic violence and denied the right to own a gun?

Because, that alleged crime was not reported. Why are so many street gang members allowed to operate free of charges? BTW, being charged with a crime is not enough to deny constitutiional rights for life.
 

reinoe

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It seems that the Orlando shooter had a history of violence, hate speech, and threats.

His first wife left him in 2009 when her family rescued her from routine beatings? (according to her words in this article) Why where the beatings not reported?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?tid=sm_tw

Former co-worker at G4S security quit after the company refused to address Mateen's racial and gay threats. They ignored the complaints, and the former co-worker ended up quitting after Mateen stalked him on his cell phone. Why didn't the co-worker or the security company not report Mateen?
Former Coworker of ISIS Killer Omar Mateen: Employer Did Nothing About His Homophobic-Racist Comments Cuz He Was Muslim

He was on the terrorist watch list and then removed? (I tried some research on this but only found a few sources)
Omar Mateen was taken off a terrorist watch list, but keeping him on it wouldn't have stopped him from buying guns - LA Times

History of mental illness and "roid rage" according to his ex. Again, why didn't she report him?
Orlando Gunman'''s Ex-Wife: '''He Had a History With Steroids,''' Mental Illness - NBC News

Two investigations by the FBI?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/u...-abuse-and-suspected-terrorist-ties.html?_r=0

Mateen's father hosted a anti American talk show, and openly supported the Taliban.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-bizarre-anti-us-talk-show-article-1.2670939
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/


I think a lot of people could have had a hand in preventing the Pulse Nightclub shooting. Why didn't they react beforehand and report this creep?

It's Florida. It's the worst state in this country. I'd gladly replace them with D.C. or one ouf our island territories.
 

Manc Skipper

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Right, because someone hell bent on mayhem and destruction would never consider breaking the law. :roll:

Do grabbers ever think these things through? :doh

Do you? If you only pass laws that all criminals will obey, there will be none. Duh!
 

Manc Skipper

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You must be unaware that the weapon of choice for terrorists in many countries is an explosive vest. Alternately -- if they don't want to die -- they just leave pressure cooker bombs by marathons.

The weapons of choice in the USA is the gun. By a long way. More maths:

CkyFicuVAAAQi_Z.jpg:large
 

ttwtt78640

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I dunno...why is it so easy for the mentally deranged and ISIS sympathizers to get guns in the US? Follow the money.

Why is it that due process cannot be employed if a clear and present danger can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? The danger of using short cuts (removing the need for due process of law) is that anyone can get someone placed on a "watch list" (see the SPLC's version of what qualifies) and shift the burden of proof to those trying to get off of those lists (if they are even told of being placed on one).
 

HowardBThiname

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The weapons of choice in the USA is the gun. By a long way. More maths:

That means absolutely nothing. Since guns are readily available here -- they choose them for their terrorist acts. When guns are not as available, they choose bombs and suicide vests.

They won't be deterred by banning guns.
 

DaveFagan

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It's the USA that is famous for these mass killings. We do have more personal weapons than any other Nation. These are usually home grown killers. They are a product of our social and educational system. My conclusion is that we produce, likely by accident, a mentality that sees death as a reasonable solution to their problem. That is analagous to saying it's OK to kill a few hundred thousand babies in Iraq. It's OK to kill anonomously with a drone. It's OK to kill a few hundred thousand Syrians. It's OK to kill a few hundred thousand Libyans. These groups seem to be allied behind someone we don't like or won't do business with us, ergo it is OK to kill them. Large scale killing, don't ya' know? USA wars after WWII have resulted in 20 million deaths. Is this the seed that infilitrates malleable minds by bending the facts in the Mass Media that make all these deaths sound inconsequential? Does reality and propaganda adjusted reality create a mind altering paradigm? The USA is different in that we take war to many parts of the World, both directly and covertly. There is a lot more of the COVERT than is ever acknowledged. Have we made acceptance of large scale death a viable solution or are we collectively nuts? Home grown mass killers on a large scale are a product of something and I have offerred my two cents. One must step behind the Mass Media Narrative and look at the real World.
 

Socrates1

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It seems that the Orlando shooter had a history of violence, hate speech, and threats.

His first wife left him in 2009 when her family rescued her from routine beatings? (according to her words in this article) Why where the beatings not reported?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?tid=sm_tw

Former co-worker at G4S security quit after the company refused to address Mateen's racial and gay threats. They ignored the complaints, and the former co-worker ended up quitting after Mateen stalked him on his cell phone. Why didn't the co-worker or the security company not report Mateen?
Former Coworker of ISIS Killer Omar Mateen: Employer Did Nothing About His Homophobic-Racist Comments Cuz He Was Muslim

He was on the terrorist watch list and then removed? (I tried some research on this but only found a few sources)
Omar Mateen was taken off a terrorist watch list, but keeping him on it wouldn't have stopped him from buying guns - LA Times

History of mental illness and "roid rage" according to his ex. Again, why didn't she report him?
Orlando Gunman'''s Ex-Wife: '''He Had a History With Steroids,''' Mental Illness - NBC News

Two investigations by the FBI?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/u...-abuse-and-suspected-terrorist-ties.html?_r=0

Mateen's father hosted a anti American talk show, and openly supported the Taliban.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-bizarre-anti-us-talk-show-article-1.2670939
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/


I think a lot of people could have had a hand in preventing the Pulse Nightclub shooting. Why didn't they react beforehand and report this creep?

The FBI questioned him twice for terrorist ties and he was allowed to buy guns one week before , I have to think our vetting process stinks ! And the democrats are committed to allow 100,000 refugees enter our Country .
 

MaggieD

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It seems that the Orlando shooter had a history of violence, hate speech, and threats.

His first wife left him in 2009 when her family rescued her from routine beatings? (according to her words in this article) Why where the beatings not reported?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?tid=sm_tw

Former co-worker at G4S security quit after the company refused to address Mateen's racial and gay threats. They ignored the complaints, and the former co-worker ended up quitting after Mateen stalked him on his cell phone. Why didn't the co-worker or the security company not report Mateen?
Former Coworker of ISIS Killer Omar Mateen: Employer Did Nothing About His Homophobic-Racist Comments Cuz He Was Muslim

He was on the terrorist watch list and then removed? (I tried some research on this but only found a few sources)
Omar Mateen was taken off a terrorist watch list, but keeping him on it wouldn't have stopped him from buying guns - LA Times

History of mental illness and "roid rage" according to his ex. Again, why didn't she report him?
Orlando Gunman'''s Ex-Wife: '''He Had a History With Steroids,''' Mental Illness - NBC News

Two investigations by the FBI?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/u...-abuse-and-suspected-terrorist-ties.html?_r=0

Mateen's father hosted a anti American talk show, and openly supported the Taliban.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...s-bizarre-anti-us-talk-show-article-1.2670939
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-even-tried-to-run-for-the-afghan-presidency/


I think a lot of people could have had a hand in preventing the Pulse Nightclub shooting. Why didn't they react beforehand and report this creep?

If he was investigated by the FBI twice and put on the terrorist watch list, the failure lies either in our Constitution (hard to call that "a failure") or the culture of Homeland Security authority. And THAT failure of culture comes from the top.

As for the women, my thought would be that they were relieved to extricate themselves from his clutches and were afraid to press charges and put themselves back on his radar. Retribution would have quite likely been deadly as evidenced by Pulse. They may well have sensed that.

And his dad? He should have been deported. Period. And can you IMAGINE that fool telling the press his son's actions weren't religiously motivated? That it was all about the son seeing two gays kiss in Miami a few months ago??

A POTUS who is more interested in treating us like children than talking about the dangers of radical Islam bears responsibility as well.

I hope the FBI, cops and Homeland Security does a forensic autopsy of this horrific incident and comes up with new policy. For instance, we haven't heard that his father was on the radar. Why wasn't he? Didn't take long to find the videos after the massacre. When ******* was investigated, why not his family? The apple rarely falls far from the tree, after all.
 

Lovebug

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Failure to identify, perhaps not enough thorough investigations. In hindsight, this man should have been stopped.
We are blaming the NRA, knowing full well that the man would have obtained weapons by any means possible.
What if he had been a bartender and poisoned the drinks? Whom would you blame then? Jack Daniels?
The FBI didn't do their job.
The co workers could have been more insistent.
The ex wife/family could have pushed harder and pressed charges preventing the man from obtaining weapons.
The man's employer could have done more.
Hindsight is 20/20, isn't it?
Let me ask you this. How many times have you read some comments here that could be interpreted as incitement to violence? Sure, we have rules for that. But have we read them? Yeah, I think most of us have come across a few.
Fact is, we all are complacent at times.
So what is the answer? Can we prevent such heinous acts without infringing on the rights of our citizens,...you, me, all of us? Are we to become so suspicious of those around us that we can't trust anyone anymore?
This young man was Muslim. Are we to turn in all Muslims? What if an NRA member goes beserk and someone calls for identifying all NRA members? How about Clinton supporters, Trump supporters?
Why don't we identify the individual and go from there? No one group is responsible for the one member who goes crazy.
It is never all Muslims, all Christians, all NRA, all Dem, all Rep or whatever comes to mind. Start with the one person who happens to be a disturbed psycho.
 

ttwtt78640

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Failure to identify, perhaps not enough thorough investigations. In hindsight, this man should have been stopped.
We are blaming the NRA, knowing full well that the man would have obtained weapons by any means possible.
What if he had been a bartender and poisoned the drinks? Whom would you blame then? Jack Daniels?
The FBI didn't do their job.
The co workers could have been more insistent.
The ex wife/family could have pushed harder and pressed charges preventing the man from obtaining weapons.
The man's employer could have done more.
Hindsight is 20/20, isn't it?
Let me ask you this. How many times have you read some comments here that could be interpreted as incitement to violence? Sure, we have rules for that. But have we read them? Yeah, I think most of us have come across a few.
Fact is, we all are complacent at times.
So what is the answer? Can we prevent such heinous acts without infringing on the rights of our citizens,...you, me, all of us? Are we to become so suspicious of those around us that we can't trust anyone anymore?
This young man was Muslim. Are we to turn in all Muslims? What if an NRA member goes beserk and someone calls for identifying all NRA members? How about Clinton supporters, Trump supporters?
Why don't we identify the individual and go from there? No one group is responsible for the one member who goes crazy.
It is never all Muslims, all Christians, all NRA, all Dem, all Rep or whatever comes to mind. Start with the one person who happens to be a disturbed psycho.

Hmm... It did not take you very long to contradict yourself. ;)
 

EMNofSeattle

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If he was investigated by the FBI twice and put on the terrorist watch list, the failure lies either in our Constitution (hard to call that "a failure") or the culture of Homeland Security authority. And THAT failure of culture comes from the top.

As for the women, my thought would be that they were relieved to extricate themselves from his clutches and were afraid to press charges and put themselves back on his radar. Retribution would have quite likely been deadly as evidenced by Pulse. They may well have sensed that.

And his dad? He should have been deported. Period. And can you IMAGINE that fool telling the press his son's actions weren't religiously motivated? That it was all about the son seeing two gays kiss in Miami a few months ago??

A POTUS who is more interested in treating us like children than talking about the dangers of radical Islam bears responsibility as well.

I hope the FBI, cops and Homeland Security does a forensic autopsy of this horrific incident and comes up with new policy. For instance, we haven't heard that his father was on the radar. Why wasn't he? Didn't take long to find the videos after the massacre. When ******* was investigated, why not his family? The apple rarely falls far from the tree, after all.

Well and there's the thing with the wife, if the wife had gone to the police he would've been convicted of DV or had a RO against him which would've revoked his guard license and placed him on the no buy list.
 

Lovebug

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Hmm... It did not take you very long to contradict yourself. ;)
Bigger picture.
You focus on what you think is a contradiction. I am focusing on hindsight. We are all such experts after the fact. How it could have been prevented? Could it have been prevented? Had the wife filed charges, he might have ended up not being able to buy weapons legally. But then what? He would have fulfilled his sick mission by any other means.
Sometimes the perfect storm comes about.
Is blaming each other or this or that a solution? Will this finger pointing prevent the next act?
 

MaggieD

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Well and there's the thing with the wife, if the wife had gone to the police he would've been convicted of DV or had a RO against him which would've revoked his guard license and placed him on the no buy list.

Yes, true. Do you have any idea how worthless a RO is to a victim of domestic violence? And how DANGEROUS it is to cause a violent man to lose his job? But you're right in principle.
 

EMNofSeattle

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Yes, true. Do you have any idea how worthless a RO is to a victim of domestic violence? And how DANGEROUS it is to cause a violent man to lose his job? But you're right in principle.

It is dangerous for a time after.

Add that to I was listening to the radio yesterday and they identified her as Uzbek, so danger plus from a background where the police are probably not well trusted it makes it difficult to want to go to the authorities.

Clearly we need to do something about DV outreach, because DV kills many women every year, and on this case a DV rap may have saved many more lives
 
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