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Watch Conservative Media's Favorite Benghazi Myth Fall Apart [W:47,61]

pbrauer

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More bad news for Fox News and the conservative media concerning a supposed scandal. Adm. Michael Mullen and Thomas Pickering blows their lies out of the water.

 

WCH

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First of all, they DID nothing...nothing at all. He's FOS.

Secondly, the POTUS or one of his subordinates would have to give that order.

Was the order they gave...STAND DOWN?
 

Wiseone

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First of all, they DID nothing...nothing at all. He's FOS.

Secondly, the POTUS or one of his subordinates would have to give that order.

Was the order they gave...STAND DOWN?

Are you asking that question? If you have to ask does that mean you don't know?

Also, "It was an election year so he had to leave four Americans to die to avoid looking back" has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen anywhere, because the entire thing is based on the premise that letting Americans die looks good in an election.
 

WCH

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Are you asking that question? If you have to ask does that mean you don't know?

Also, "It was an election year so he had to leave four Americans to die to avoid looking back" has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen anywhere, because the entire thing is based on the premise that letting Americans die looks good in an election.

I was posing the question to the OP but, if you would care to answer?

I'll take Valerie Jarrett for the win. Barry was busy planning his next vacation or something.
 

Wiseone

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I was posing the question to the OP but, if you would care to answer?

I'll take Valerie Jarrett for the win. Barry was busy planning his next vacation or something.

My answer is that I'll look at the facts first and nothing there suggests a stand down order was given and certainly not a deliberate choice was made to simply leave them to die.
 

Wiseone

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I was posing the question to the OP but, if you would care to answer?

I'll take Valerie Jarrett for the win. Barry was busy planning his next vacation or something.

My answer is that I'll look at the facts first and nothing there suggests a stand down order was given and certainly not a deliberate choice was made to simply leave them to die.
 

ttwtt78640

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Are you asking that question? If you have to ask does that mean you don't know?

Also, "It was an election year so he had to leave four Americans to die to avoid looking back" has to be one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen anywhere, because the entire thing is based on the premise that letting Americans die looks good in an election.

The Obama campaign message was that UBL was dead, GM was alive and well and that Al Qaeda was on the run. That made it politcally dangerous for Obama to admit that terrorists were still quite able to plan successful attacks against U.S. personnel and receive no U.S. retaliation. Better to play off Benghazi as just another random protest over an offensive movie and not a terrorist attack against some very vulnerable U.S. facilities.
 

P. Kersey

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My answer is that I'll look at the facts first and nothing there suggests a stand down order was given and certainly not a deliberate choice was made to simply leave them to die.

The "facts" that the govt gives you is what you'll look at...and we all know the govt would never lie to citizens, right?

We can get the 82nd Airborne halfway around the world overnight if we want to. Don't tell me they couldn't have sent help when an embassy is attacked. There are bases in the med where support could have come from. Sigonella is only a few hundred miles from libya...less than 30 minutes for air support to arrive.
 

polgara

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The "facts" that the govt gives you is what you'll look at...and we all know the govt would never lie to citizens, right?

We can get the 82nd Airborne halfway around the world overnight if we want to. Don't tell me they couldn't have sent help when an embassy is attacked. There are bases in the med where support could have come from. Sigonella is only a few hundred miles from libya...less than 30 minutes for air support to arrive.

Benghazi is not going to go away until we are given the truth about what happened, IMO. If an Ambassador's death isn't considered important, where does that leave the rest of us? :eek:
 

Kobie

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First of all, they DID nothing...nothing at all. He's FOS.

Secondly, the POTUS or one of his subordinates would have to give that order.

Was the order they gave...STAND DOWN?

There was no Stand Down order. No matter how much you attempt to conjure one out of thin air.

Benghazi is not going to go away until we are given the truth about what happened, IMO. If an Ambassador's death isn't considered important, where does that leave the rest of us? :eek:

You've been given the truth about what happened. Repeatedly. That you choose not to accept it in order to tilt at your partisan windmills is nobody's problem but your own.

Where was the right-wing outrage over the 60 embassy personnel killed in 16 separate incidents from 2001-08?
 

MMC

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Have they figured out yet why no one questioned the Turks Envoy who met Stevens and was one of the very last people outside his own that Stevens talked to? Did they want to cite security clearances? Diplomatic Immunity? As the Turks Envoy's Embassy closed and he had no Official business inside Libya at the time and was not the Turk Ambassador. So technically if picked up.....he would have to answer for his actions and who he was with.

It would seem to me with the investigation going nowhere in Libya.....that is one place to start hitting this Administration with its failure to notice the Side of the barn that got hit. The Turk Envoy can be given Immunity for testimony. Moreover the Repubs need to focus more on the Incompetency and then get to the issue of the Libyans warning the State Dept and the CIA 3 days ahead of the attack that Benghazi was to dangerous to conduct Business.

Note the Libyans didn't say to have talks.....nor anything that would be rationalized as Embassy Business. They said it was to dangerous to conduct business. Now why would they tell us this. A day before Al Zawahiri and AQ releases their Video calling for Revenge over Al Libi? Well for one they knew the Embassy for Libya was really in Tripoli. So they did know the difference as to the facilities. Also they need to connect the dots with the hit being on the Anniversary of 911 and to include the Social media that was used to Riot and Protest the US in 23 Muslim Countries. As they were in correlation with each other.
 

WCH

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There was no Stand Down order. No matter how much you attempt to conjure one out of thin air.
Without an order from the POTUS or one of his keepers, none of these assets would be available.

article-1368633-0B47B37400000578-873_964x769.jpg
 

APACHERAT

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Sounds like dereliction of duty. Our military wasn't prepared to respond in the hottest place in the world at the time.

I seem to remember when terrorist were discovered to be on board a commercial airliner over the Mediterranean Sea during the Reagan administration, in less than 30 minutes after receiving the orders from Cn'C Reagan, Navy aircraft took off of a carrier and intercepted that aircraft and forced it to land at a NATO air base in Italy.

Well that was Reagan's military. What did Obama's military have in the area ? Nothing.

BTW: Admiral Mullen was known as being one of the biggest yes men to ever have four stars on his collar.
 

Ray410

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Sounds like dereliction of duty. Our military wasn't prepared to respond in the hottest place in the world at the time.

I seem to remember when terrorist were discovered to be on board a commercial airliner over the Mediterranean Sea during the Reagan administration, in less than 30 minutes after receiving the orders from Cn'C Reagan, Navy aircraft took off of a carrier and intercepted that aircraft and forced it to land at a NATO air base in Italy.

Well that was Reagan's military. What did Obama's military have in the area ? Nothing.

BTW: Admiral Mullen was known as being one of the biggest yes men to ever have four stars on his collar.

That was the hijacking of the Achille Lauro by Palestinians, who were trying to force Israel to release 50 Palestinian terrorist prisoners. They killed a Jew in a wheelchair named Leon Klinghoffer. Reagan's go to guy Oliver North brought them down. It was a thing of beauty.
 

Wiseone

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The Obama campaign message was that UBL was dead, GM was alive and well and that Al Qaeda was on the run. That made it politcally dangerous for Obama to admit that terrorists were still quite able to plan successful attacks against U.S. personnel and receive no U.S. retaliation. Better to play off Benghazi as just another random protest over an offensive movie and not a terrorist attack against some very vulnerable U.S. facilities.

Ok you as a politician want to keep the narrative going that Al Qaeda is on the run, which doesn't exactly mean defeated or no longer dangerous but lets assume it does for this argument. How would letting four Americans die help that narrative!?!?! It still makes no damn sense, sure if they were already dead the protest narrative may be a good cover but if you'd only saved them to begin with you wouldn't need that as a back up. So again, WHY LET THEM DIE?!?!

What says Al Qaeda is weak better, "Al Qaeda launched an attack but resulted in no American deaths" or "Al Qaeda launched an attack that killed four?"

The "facts" that the govt gives you is what you'll look at...and we all know the govt would never lie to citizens, right?

We can get the 82nd Airborne halfway around the world overnight if we want to. Don't tell me they couldn't have sent help when an embassy is attacked. There are bases in the med where support could have come from. Sigonella is only a few hundred miles from libya...less than 30 minutes for air support to arrive.

No we can't get the 82nd ABN halfway around the world overnight, you have a cartoonish view of the military. And Sigonella does not host combat aircraft, again you don't know what you're talking about.
 
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Wiseone

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There was no Stand Down order. No matter how much you attempt to conjure one out of thin air.
Without an order from the POTUS or one of his keepers, none of these assets would be available.

article-1368633-0B47B37400000578-873_964x769.jpg

This map isn't only stupidly old compared to when the attack in Benghazi took place, but it also reflects the results of a massive amount of planning and logistical operations that don't just happen over night or on the fly. Also Obama doesn't have command over foreign military...
 

APACHERAT

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That was the hijacking of the Achille Lauro by Palestinians, who were trying to force Israel to release 50 Palestinian terrorist prisoners. They killed a Jew in a wheelchair named Leon Klinghoffer. Reagan's go to guy Oliver North brought them down. It was a thing of beauty.

President Reagan was one of the better Commander in Chiefs in America's history, highly competent when it came to the military.
He put a highly competent Casper Weinberger as Secretary of Defense and had John Lehman as Secretary of the Navy, definitely not a yes man who made sure that all the military commanders were warriors and competent and always made sure their was a Carrier Battle Group on station in every fleet's AOR 24/7 to be able to respond in minutes to any international crises. That's the main job of the President, Commander in Chief of the military.
 

P. Kersey

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Ok you as a politician want to keep the narrative going that Al Qaeda is on the run, which doesn't exactly mean defeated or no longer dangerous but lets assume it does for this argument. How would letting four Americans die help that narrative!?!?! It still makes no damn sense, sure if they were already dead the protest narrative may be a good cover but if you'd only saved them to begin with you wouldn't need that as a back up. So again, WHY LET THEM DIE?!?!

What says Al Qaeda is weak better, "Al Qaeda launched an attack but resulted in no American deaths" or "Al Qaeda launched an attack that killed four?"

...but we were willing to attack syria to support al qaeda fighters there...isn't that interesting....



No we can't get the 82nd ABN halfway around the world overnight, you have a cartoonish view of the military. And Sigonella does not host combat aircraft, again you don't know what you're talking about.

LMAO..ONE of us doesn't know what he's talking about, THAT'S for SURE.
Educate yourself;
82nd Airborne Division

The mission of the 82nd Airborne Division is to, within 18 hours of notification, strategically deploy, conduct forcible entry parachute assault and secure key objectives for follow-on military operations in support of U.S. national interests. The mission of the reorganized modular 82nd Airborne Division remained the same.


On any day, a third of the division is on mission cycle, ready to respond to any contingency. Another third is on a wartime training cycle, and the rest of the division is on support cycle. These support units prepare vehicles and equipment for deployment and support such other division and post activities.

As the largest parachute force in the free world, the 82nd Airborne Division is trained to deploy anywhere, at any time, to fight upon arrival and to win. From cook to computer operator, from infantryman or engineer, every soldier in the 82nd is airborne qualified. Almost every piece of divisional combat equipment can be dropped by parachute onto the field of battle.



Educate yourself a little more...
Could U.S. military have helped during Libya attack? - CBS News

CBS News has been told that, hours after the attack began, an unmanned Predator drone was sent over the U.S. mission in Benghazi, and that the drone and other reconnaissance aircraft apparently observed the final hours of the protracted battle....

....A White House official told CBS News that a "small group of reinforcements" was sent from Tripoli to Benghazi, but declined to say how many or what time they arrived....
....Retired CIA officer Gary Berntsen believes help could have come much sooner. He commanded CIA counter-terrorism missions targeting Osama bin Laden and led the team that responded after bombings of the U.S. Embassy in East Africa.

"You find a way to make this happen," Berntsen says. "There isn't a plan for every single engagement. Sometimes you have to be able to make adjustments. They made zero adjustments in this. They stood and they watched and our people died."...

...The Pentagon says it did move a team of special operators from central Europe to the large Naval Air Station in Sigonella, Italy, but gave no other details. Sigonella is just an hour's flight from Libya. Other nearby bases include Aviano and Souda Bay. Military sources tell CBS News that resources at the three bases include fighter jets and Specter AC-130 gunships, which the sources say can be extremely effective in flying in and buzzing a crowd to disperse it....
 

ttwtt78640

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Ok you as a politician want to keep the narrative going that Al Qaeda is on the run, which doesn't exactly mean defeated or no longer dangerous but lets assume it does for this argument. How would letting four Americans die help that narrative!?!?! It still makes no damn sense, sure if they were already dead the protest narrative may be a good cover but if you'd only saved them to begin with you wouldn't need that as a back up. So again, WHY LET THEM DIE?!?!

What says Al Qaeda is weak better, "Al Qaeda launched an attack but resulted in no American deaths" or "Al Qaeda launched an attack that killed four?"



No we can't get the 82nd ABN halfway around the world overnight, you have a cartoonish view of the military. And Sigonella does not host combat aircraft, again you don't know what you're talking about.

That the attack was not a terrorist attack at all, but simply a protest that got out of control. ;)
 

Kobie

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That the attack was not a terrorist attack at all, but simply a protest that got out of control. ;)

It never ceases to intrigue me that the most inconsequential part of the Benghazi incident -- the original blaming of the "protest" -- is the one that most seems to have the right wing's knickers in a twist.
 

ttwtt78640

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It never ceases to intrigue me that the most inconsequential part of the Benghazi incident -- the original blaming of the "protest" -- is the one that most seems to have the right wing's knickers in a twist.

Because it was done purposefully, after the fact and not "in the fog of war". Blame can be placed easily for simply making up a convenient lie to help the current administration politically. As with most gov't screw ups, it is not that mistakes were made which makes them so bad, it is the cover up, denial of responsibility and blame shifting that pisses folks off. Everyone else seemed to have figured out the extreme danger in Benghazi and left, except for the U.S. which "lacked resources" to even think clearly, it would appear. Obviously, if there was officially no problem then there will be no solution sought for it.
 

Grant

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Because it was done purposefully, after the fact and not "in the fog of war". Blame can be placed easily for simply making up a convenient lie to help the current administration politically. As with most gov't screw ups, it is not that mistakes were made which makes them so bad, it is the cover up, denial of responsibility and blame shifting that pisses folks off. Everyone else seemed to have figured out the extreme danger in Benghazi and left, except for the U.S. which "lacked resources" to even think clearly, it would appear. Obviously, if there was officially no problem then there will be no solution sought for it.

As well the British had already pulled out of Benghazi because it had become too dangerous for their personnel and Ambassador Stevens had sent several prior warnings that something dreadful was going on. His diary, discovered by CNN!, lists all his concerns. Certainly there should have been plans made well in advance and to bring in all the other Embassies into the world, when there was this one hot spot, is pure obfuscation.

Then of course there was the obvious cover up and lies, blaming it all on a video. This is a straightforward attempt at a whitewash.
 

P. Kersey

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It never ceases to intrigue me that the most inconsequential part of the Benghazi incident -- the original blaming of the "protest" -- is the one that most seems to have the right wing's knickers in a twist.

No..it's the fact that a U.S. embassy..sovereign territory...was attacked, overran and americans killed, including the ambassador while the u.s. govt sat and watched it happen in real time via a drone circling and decided not to do anything to help.

See, that's what pisses people off...that and hyperpartisan hacks making excuses for them.
 

nota bene

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The Administration shouldn't have spun the story; it should have been transparently truthful with the American people. It was not. It still is not.
 

Kobie

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The Administration shouldn't have spun the story; it should have been transparently truthful with the American people. It was not. It still is not.

What is being hidden?
 
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