Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response? [W:377]

[Redress]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Reality sucks for socialists sorry...

I am not the one denying reality. He really did more than one thing. Some really good things. Some not so good.

 

[legalimmigrant]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

We fixed the imaginary spies real good I bet. :roll:

Japanese Americans were overwhelming loyal to the US

How many is "overwhelming"?

And you know this how? Going door-to-door and asking?

 

[Redress]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

None at the moment..

Well, at least you are not trying to hide your fascism.

 

[Orly?]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

The Japanese government was very confusing at that time. A few radicals would not have necessarily made a difference(as they did not after the bombs where dropped). Now, I don't have a particular problem with the bombings, and what problem I do have is that I think there where better choices of targets that would have both reduced civilian casualties and done more to impair Japan's ability to fight, but I also understand that there is no real right or wrong answer. it is a value judgement based on guessing what people we know little about would do.

It was all about if the emperor wanted to continue to fight.. It all hinged on that one "radical"..

Nukes even made him throw in the towel...

And we did not nuke those cities to kill civilians, we nuked them to stop the war economy producing their war machines and supplies..

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Why? The US nuclear weapons project was originally designed as a measure to be used against Nazi Germany, not Japan. Explain your reasoning please.

No, I'm talking about the rabid, zealous nature with which the Japanese people wanted to destroy America. Probably because they were beginning to show signs of becoming to America what Nazi Germany became to the Jews. If you were Japanese, and you saw what Nazi Germany did to Jews, and you began to see the Americans doing to you what the Germans were doing to the Jews, you bet your ass you'd be running scared and infuriated into a willing and dying-breath daring-do suicide mission for the homeland that claimed it will protect you.

 

[Sherman123]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Barry Mehler, 'Eliminating the Inferior: American and Nazi Sterilization Programs,' Science for the People (Nov-Dec 1987) pp. 14-18.
Yale Study: U.S. Eugenics Paralleled Nazi Germany
The Horrifying American Roots of Nazi Eugenics
How American Eugenicists Helped Shape Nazi Tactics
American eugenics and the Nazi connection
History of Eugenics
How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power
Bush bank tied to Nazi funding
Wall St. and the Rise of Hitler

This has been common mainstream knowledge for almost 20 years.



Sure it would, it would have discouraged fascism in all forms. It wouldn't have been so popular had Hitler and the Nazis not risen to power. Mussolini would have had to fight off Germany, France, Russia, pretty much everyone. There wouldn't have been the motivation that sparked fascism abroad had it not been for Hitler and the Nazis.

None of your links support your central thesis which is that without Wall Street the Nazis wouldn't have risen to power or started World War II. No one questions, in this thread or in academia, that there were unsavory ties between some American industrialists and financiers and the NSDAP.

Furthermore you have your chronology out of order. Fascism in Germany was predated by the rise of a fascist regime in Italy, which Hitler and the NSDAP emulated, and nationalist-militarism in Japan which predated the rise of the Third Reich.

Edit: I should also add that there isn't significant evidence that Japanese State Showa-ism was significantly influenced by the NSDAP. There are some comparisons which can be made but it was overall a uniquely Japanese institution which was the product of its own historical, political, religious, and cultural experiences.

 

[Redress]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

It was all about if the emperor wanted to continue to fight.. It all hinged on that one "radical"..

Nukes even made him throw in the towel...

And we did not nuke those cities to kill civilians, we nuked them to stop the war economy producing their war machines and supplies..

No, it was not. That is massively not understanding the Japanese government and power structure of the time.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

The Japanese government was very confusing at that time. A few radicals would not have necessarily made a difference(as they did not after the bombs where dropped). Now, I don't have a particular problem with the bombings, and what problem I do have is that I think there where better choices of targets that would have both reduced civilian casualties and done more to impair Japan's ability to fight, but I also understand that there is no real right or wrong answer. it is a value judgement based on guessing what people we know little about would do.

A few radicals can make all the difference when it comes to war.

The problem is that there weren't a whole lot of targets left where the full power of the weapons could be demonstrated in order to force the Japanese to the table. Many Japanese cities had been more or less burned down by incinidary bombs. Nobody wanted to hit the emperor's residence, which had been somewhat unscathed if I recall correctly over fears he'd be accidentally killed. The idea was to cripple the Japanese ability to fight, to destroy their willingness to fight on with what they had and to end the war with the minimum loss of life possible.

 

[Orly?]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

No, it was not. That is massively not understanding the Japanese government and power structure of the time.

I understand just fine thank you.. You must be confused if your PC crusade jihad..

 

[Sherman123]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

No, I'm talking about the rabid, zealous nature with which the Japanese people wanted to destroy America. Probably because they were beginning to show signs of becoming to America what Nazi Germany became to the Jews. If you were Japanese, and you saw what Nazi Germany did to Jews, and you began to see the Americans doing to you what the Germans were doing to the Jews, you bet your ass you'd be running scared and infuriated into a willing and dying-breath daring-do suicide mission for the homeland that claimed it will protect you.

Again you need to learn more about Japanese history because the inception of a Japanese nationalist-militarist regime predates the rise of the NSDAP. Furthermore they began enacting their own crackdowns, atrocities, and the like far before the outbreak of World War II and before Hitler had fully cemented his grip on power.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

How many is "overwhelming"?

And you know this how? Going door-to-door and asking?

There were 21 Medal of Honor winners in the 442nd Infantry Regiment. That's not the kind of behavior typical of a populace which is rooting for the other side. More then 9,000 Purple Hearts too.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

None of your links support your central thesis which is that without Wall Street the Nazis wouldn't have risen to power or started World War II. No one questions, in this thread or in academia, that there were unsavory ties between some American industrialists and financiers and the NSDAP.

I didn't say "without Wall Street the Nazis wouldn't have risen to power or started World War II", what I said was, "I'm sorry, but I think WWII wouldn't have been necessary if Wall Street hadn't funded the friggen Nazis in the first place!"

All of my links support the second bolded part of your quote, which is the same as Wall Street elites funding Nazis. That happened, you cannot deny that. Downplay it if you want (I find it hilarious you try to make the Nazis sound respectable by calling them by their initials, and kind of disgusting).

Furthermore you have your chronology out of order. Fascism in Germany was predated by the rise of a fascist regime in Italy, which Hitler and the NSDAP emulated, and nationalist-militarism in Japan which predated the rise of the Third Reich.

Okay, I was mistaken on the chronology part. The militarism of Japan was boosted by European militarism, however.

 

[Redress]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

A few radicals can make all the difference when it comes to war.

The problem is that there weren't a whole lot of targets left where the full power of the weapons could be demonstrated in order to force the Japanese to the table. Many Japanese cities had been more or less burned down by incinidary bombs. Nobody wanted to hit the emperor's residence, which had been somewhat unscathed if I recall correctly over fears he'd be accidentally killed. The idea was to cripple the Japanese ability to fight, to destroy their willingness to fight on with what they had and to end the war with the minimum loss of life possible.

There where tons of primarily military targets. Kure Naval Precinct, while heavily bombed, was still a major problem any invasion would have to deal with.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

No, I'm talking about the rabid, zealous nature with which the Japanese people wanted to destroy America. Probably because they were beginning to show signs of becoming to America what Nazi Germany became to the Jews. If you were Japanese, and you saw what Nazi Germany did to Jews, and you began to see the Americans doing to you what the Germans were doing to the Jews, you bet your ass you'd be running scared and infuriated into a willing and dying-breath daring-do suicide mission for the homeland that claimed it will protect you.

Are you serious? First off, no. America wasn't doing to the Japanese what Nazi Germany was doing to its Jews. That's blatantly false. The detainment camps were no summer camps but they weren't designed to wipe out the Japanese population.

Why are you trying to apologize for a regime which committed atrocities such as the Rape of Nanking? Ever hear of Unit 731?

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Again you need to learn more about Japanese history because the inception of a Japanese nationalist-militarist regime predates the rise of the NSDAP. Furthermore they began enacting their own crackdowns, atrocities, and the like far before the outbreak of World War II and before Hitler had fully cemented his grip on power.

I'm not talking about when it started. That is completely different. I'm talking about how it escalated.

 

[Sherman123]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Specifically the Mukden incident and the Invasion of Manchuria occurred contemporaneously with the beginning of Hitlers final efforts to seize power in Germany in 1931. So it seems difficult to imagine that they were 'influenced' by the Nazis to take these measures. It isn't especially difficult to trace the rise of the militarist autocracy in Japan from the Meiji Restoration.

 

[Sherman123]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

I'm not talking about when it started. That is completely different. I'm talking about how it escalated.

Be specific then, what exactly is your contention? What exactly did this alleged influence cause them to escalate? Their invasion of China? What?

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

There where tons of primarily military targets. Kure Naval Precinct, while heavily bombed, was still a major problem any invasion would have to deal with.

And if the Japanese refused to surrender after the first two strikes then it probably would have been hit. But the atomic bombings were a psychological weapon as well as a conventional one.

 

[Redress]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

I understand just fine thank you.. You must be confused if your PC crusade jihad..

Well, actually, you do not understand if you think the emperor was the sole determiner of what Japan would do. I spend significant time reading and researching WW2, I kinda have some knowledge on this topic. If you would like to enlighten yourself a tad, maybe try Pacific Campaign by Van Der Vat.

 

[legalimmigrant]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

FDR was right. All that touchy-feely crap I am reading now is a typical post-fact PC crap. It feels good, but it's still crap. If the Japs were so loyal and so American, would you let them:

1. Work building war ships?
2. Be part of the top command?
2. Work on Project Manhattan?
3. Plan both nuclear attacks?
4. Fly Enola Gay to make the drop?

Luckily, neither FDR nor Truman consulted with any of you.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Are you serious? First off, no. America wasn't doing to the Japanese what Nazi Germany was doing to its Jews. That's blatantly false. The detainment camps were no summer camps but they weren't designed to wipe out the Japanese population.

From my quote, the part you missed,

robably because they were beginning to show signs of becoming to America what Nazi Germany became to the Jews.

you began to see the Americans doing to you what the Germans were doing to the Jews

Everyone makes mistakes.

Why are you trying to apologize for a regime which committed atrocities such as the Rape of Nanking? Ever hear of Unit 731?

This is all you guys got? Try harder. Point out where I am defending the Japanese Imperial Fascist war criminals.

 

[Redress]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

And if the Japanese refused to surrender after the first two strikes then it probably would have been hit. But the atomic bombings were a psychological weapon as well as a conventional one.

Kure would have had at least the same psychological impact. Just fewer civilian casualties.

 

[Sherman123]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

I didn't say "without Wall Street the Nazis wouldn't have risen to power or started World War II", what I said was, "I'm sorry, but I think WWII wouldn't have been necessary if Wall Street hadn't funded the friggen Nazis in the first place!"

All of my links support the second bolded part of your quote, which is the same as Wall Street elites funding Nazis. That happened, you cannot deny that. Downplay it if you want (I find it hilarious you try to make the Nazis sound respectable by calling them by their initials, and kind of disgusting).



Okay, I was mistaken on the chronology part. The militarism of Japan was boosted by European militarism, however.

""I'm sorry, but I think WWII wouldn't have been necessary if Wall Street hadn't funded the friggen Nazis in the first place!""

Explain to me how that isn't an argument for the position that without the influence of 'Wall Street' the Second World War wouldn't have occurred? I was paraphrasing but that looks like exactly what you're proposing.

If you're merely asserting that there were nefarious ties between industrialists in the United States and fascists in Germany than you'll get no opposition from me.

 

[Redress]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

FDR was right. All that touchy-feely crap I am reading now is a typical post-fact PC crap. It feels good, but it's still crap. If the Japs were so loyal and so American, would you let them:

1. Work building war ships?
2. Be part of the top command?
2. Work on Project Manhattan?
3. Plan both nuclear attacks?
4. Fly Enola Gay to make the drop?

Luckily, FDR didn't consult with any of you.

Did you know many Japanese Americans did fight in WW2 for the US?

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Was interning the Japanese during WW2 the right response?

Be specific then, what exactly is your contention? What exactly did this alleged influence cause them to escalate? Their invasion of China? What?

The topic of this thread.