War on Terror is bogus

[mixedmedia]

Big mistake using the drug "war" metaphorically. My point was that terrorism is a crime and should be treated accordingly. Of course, if the war on drugs is not working through law enforcement means, then perhaps it is time to take it up a notch. Trying to catch a neighborhood kingpin? Blow-up his apartment complex while he's sleeping. Sounds ridiculous? Sounds like what we're doing in Iraq to me. And in fact, we did that exact thing. Only thing, funny this, he wasn't at home.

I don't know where the drugs are coming and going, but I find it hard to believe that Canada is sending us more drugs than we are sending them. It's simply un-American.

 

[Pacridge]

Big mistake using the drug "war" metaphorically. My point was that terrorism is a crime and should be treated accordingly. Of course, if the war on drugs is not working through law enforcement means, then perhaps it is time to take it up a notch. Trying to catch a neighborhood kingpin? Blow-up his apartment complex while he's sleeping. Sounds ridiculous? Sounds like what we're doing in Iraq to me. And in fact, we did that exact thing. Only thing, funny this, he wasn't at home.

I don't know where the drugs are coming and going, but I find it hard to believe that Canada is sending us more drugs than we are sending them. It's simply un-American.

I don't think Canada's sending us any drugs per se. I think the majority of our drugs come from the south and east. I just read some Justice Department Reports a few years back and they seemed to think the northern boarder were becoming an issue as they weren't as well on guard for drug smuggling.

As for un-American. What do you mean? We import just about every thing any more. We've got a huge trade deficit. The only thing we still make that the rest of the world wants is Hollywood movies.

And again I was being sarcastic with what I said about the drug war as compared to how we're fighting the war on terrorism. I really thought you were trying to look at the larger picture- which I thought made sense.

 

[mixedmedia]

I don't think Canada's sending us any drugs per se. I think the majority of our drugs come from the south and east. I just read some Justice Department Reports a few years back and they seemed to think the northern boarder were becoming an issue as they weren't as well on guard for drug smuggling.

As for un-American. What do you mean? We import just about every thing any more. We've got a huge trade deficit. The only thing we still make that the rest of the world wants is Hollywood movies.

And again I was being sarcastic with what I said about the drug war as compared to how we're fighting the war on terrorism. I really thought you were trying to look at the larger picture- which I thought made sense.

Yeah, we don't make anything worth a crap anymore do we. But at least we can pat ourselves on the back for sending sizable amounts of quality smoking weeds to Canada. Better than most of the movies we send there, I'll bet ya, and more appreciated.

I got your sarcastic shtick. No worries. :fu
Just kidding...but gee, he's cute. Is he new to the debate politics emoticon palette?

 

[mixedmedia]

You are right about this and I think that is what is happening now in Iraq.Our people started rebuilding Iraq after the military won the war(military to military I know where still fighting terrorist and their gorilla warfare) and the repairs are done to our standards which greatly improves the environment. We have to win over people. It's hard to help people who hate us but it will take time to undo negative propaganda.

I appreciate your sincerity alienken, but we are only repairing the colossal amounts of damage that we caused in the first place. It's not what I'm referring to at all. You speak as if Iraq were a third world country. It was not and their building standards in metropolitan areas is on par with most of what is accepted as "modern." I could be wrong about this, but I don't think I am. I think it's a common mistake for Americans to think that all the Middle East is like a Palestinian refugee city. It's simply not true.

As for bettering the circumstances for creating jobs and stability, it's just sad to me that we are spending the 100 million a day that we are and seeing so little for our efforts. People are still living without reliable power & drinking water in their homes because of damage done during the war that has not been corrected. This is not what I am talking about.

My vision is of a total commitent to non-violent, pro-active (even though I hate that word; can't think of a better one this close to 5am) approach to cutting the roots of terrorism. It can be done but it will take commitment and much sacrifice from the most powerful and wealthy in the world. But just imagine what the world stands to gain.

 

[Contrarian]

Pac, here is one of the links to the air conditioned garbage truck story. The city officials were taking alot of heat from people defending their logic. Eventually, Homeland Security stepped in to defend the city saying that these trucks "could" be used to haul away debris or act as road blocks. It makes you wonder what other pork barreling is going on? Lawn sprinklers in all the parks of Peoria in case they experience a chemical attack and have to wash off their grass? Fallout shelters for all the cows in Wisconsin? It borders on hysterical! :lamo

I guess it's W's way of showing us how safe he is keeping us.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/w...r15,0,571607.story?coll=ny-region-apnewjersey

 

[Pacridge]

Pac, here is one of the links to the air conditioned garbage truck story. The city officials were taking alot of heat from people defending their logic. Eventually, Homeland Security stepped in to defend the city saying that these trucks "could" be used to haul away debris or act as road blocks. It makes you wonder what other pork barreling is going on? Lawn sprinklers in all the parks of Peoria in case they experience a chemical attack and have to wash off their grass? Fallout shelters for all the cows in Wisconsin? It borders on hysterical! :lamo

I guess it's W's way of showing us how safe he is keeping us.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj--garbagetrucks0315mar15,0,571607.story?coll=ny-region-apnewjersey

Yep, that's a joke. And not a very funny one at that. And it's law makers on both sides of the fence trying to get pork for their districts to ensure their re-election that leads to this BS spending. Here's a link to a site that goes into some pork spending. Detailing where some of our much needed port security dollars are going.

http://www.taxpayer.net/TCS/wastebasket/nationalsecurity/2005-3-14portsecurity.htm

You'll find that while the ports of New York and L.A. handle most of our cargo they don't get most of our dollars instead:

"grants were awarded to protect the port at Martha's Vineyard as well as to the states of Oklahoma, Kentucky, New Hampshire and Tennessee - hardly the frontlines of the war on terror. After examining four rounds of grants, the Inspector General found that the DHS appeared to be intentionally distributing the money as widely as politically possible."

I think this clearly shows our elected officials are more interested in their political future then our safety.

 

[Strangelove]

[FONT = Times New Roman]xxx[/FONT]Okay, there are terrorists in the Middle East, that's a given, but tell me something... how many terrorists have we killed by bombing civilian targets in Iraq? Yea, okay, we killed SOME, but compared to the innocent men, women, and children we also killed, i dont think it was worth it. There are others ways of stop terrorism other than declare war on countries. Countries aren't terrorists, individuals are terrorists.

In my opnion, this war began in at the 1972 Olympics in 1972.

We are only now addressing it.

And we MUST be victorious. Winning this war is even more critical than winning WW2.

 

[anomaly]

In my opnion, this war began in at the 1972 Olympics in 1972.

We are only now addressing it.

And we MUST be victorious. Winning this war is even more critical than winning WW2.

This war is not able to be won! It is against something so abstract as terrorism. Tell me, how do we fight terrorism? By invading a sovereign country? The president seems to maintain that Iraq was part of the war against terrorism. It clearly was not. We should wage war on Al Qaida, not terrorism itself. Terrorism will always exist, as long as there is some empire in the world many do not like. We should increase our defensive measures, and increase security, rather than continuing on with offensive ones.

 

[Repubteen]

We should increase our defensive measures, and increase security, rather than continuing on with offensive ones.

:thumbdown

No, this would not work because your just taking the problem of terrorism and putting it on the back burner, like Clinton did. And look where that got us. We need to make these terrorist feel threatened we need to give them an ultimatum,if you lay a finger on an American citizen you can say good bye to Kabul.Or something along those lines. Were the ones in charge not the terrorists. The US doesn't back down from anybody.

 

[mixedmedia]

Yep, that's a joke. And not a very funny one at that. And it's law makers on both sides of the fence trying to get pork for their districts to ensure their re-election that leads to this BS spending. Here's a link to a site that goes into some pork spending. Detailing where some of our much needed port security dollars are going.

http://www.taxpayer.net/TCS/wastebasket/nationalsecurity/2005-3-14portsecurity.htm

You'll find that while the ports of New York and L.A. handle most of our cargo they don't get most of our dollars instead:

"grants were awarded to protect the port at Martha's Vineyard as well as to the states of Oklahoma, Kentucky, New Hampshire and Tennessee - hardly the frontlines of the war on terror. After examining four rounds of grants, the Inspector General found that the DHS appeared to be intentionally distributing the money as widely as politically possible."

I think this clearly shows our elected officials are more interested in their political future then our safety.

Yes, I worked in importation and exportation for a "major plastics manufacturing corporation" and was shocked, even before 9/11, at the lax security regarding these containers coming in from overseas into our ports and even more so by the carrying of uninspected commercial cargo on our passenger planes. I mean, working there, I, in a limited administrative capacity, could arrange for uninspected cargo to be loaded onto a passenger plane. Even after 9/11 (as I was working there at that time).

But, hey, Oklahoma gots the beef, right? Tennessee, well it's so pretty...much of it. Kentucky, hey that's the home of bluegrass music and Loretta Lynn, that's a no-brainer. And New Hampshire, I don't know, I just sleep better knowing that New Hampshireans are safely sleeping, too.

Those fancy metropolitan centers think they're all that anyway. F 'em.

<trying to match Pac sardonic wit for wit....pitifully>

 

[mixedmedia]

:thumbdown

No, this would not work because your just taking the problem of terrorism and putting it on the back burner, like Clinton did. And look where that got us. We need to make these terrorist feel threatened we need to give them an ultimatum,if you lay a finger on an American citizen you can say good bye to Kabul.Or something along those lines. Were the ones in charge not the terrorists. The US doesn't back down from anybody.

This kind of thinking drives me nuts. Kabul is full of people & very few of them are terrorists. How can "taking out" Kabul be the right thing to do? Only a sheltered American would say something so ridiculous. Well, no I take that back. Osama bin Laden would say something as ridiculous. Jeesh, when's this backwards cr*p gonna end? Don't you realize that the destruction we cause in these wars only makes conditions BETTER for terrorism. Every day we are creating new terrorists. Did you ever stop to think that some folks in power right now might know this and not want terrorism to end right now because it serves their purposes? Free your mind....the rest will follow. Sorry to quote an En Vogue song, but it works.

 

[mixedmedia]

<trying to match Pac sardonic wit for wit....pitifully>

Not that it matters to anyone but me, but I meant sarcastic...I'm a stickler for the appropriate usage of words.

 

[Strangelove]

This war is not able to be won! It is against something so abstract as terrorism. Tell me, how do we fight terrorism? By invading a sovereign country? The president seems to maintain that Iraq was part of the war against terrorism. It clearly was not. We should wage war on Al Qaida, not terrorism itself. Terrorism will always exist, as long as there is some empire in the world many do not like. We should increase our defensive measures, and increase security, rather than continuing on with offensive ones.

It amazes me how people think that because we're waging a war on terrorism in Iraq, that by default, we're not waging a war on Al-Qaeda

Are you just not paying attenton?

Was Khalid Skaikh Mohammed (no.2 man in Al-Qaeda and key 9/11 planner) in Iraq when he was bagged?......NO.

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0303/48.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,127864,00.html

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/10/26/inv.bosnia.arrests/


I wish there was a 'bang-head against wall' emoticon here.

We are waging a war against ISLAMIC terrorism WHEREVER it is. Since it is everywhere, the world fights it everywhere.

It's just incredible to me how short peoples' memories are.

 

[Repubteen]

well I didn't mean Kabul exactly i just couldn't think of a common "terrorist" city. But how do we handle these terrorists, I don't want to just fix our port security and make our airports safer. I want revenge on the people who took 3,000 lives on 9/11 not for me but for the American families that lost loved ones. I'm not a war crazy person I just want to see these terrorists brought to justice and war is the only way I'm thinkin is going to work.

By the way Family Guy is such a great show, I own all three seasons...

 

[Strangelove]

I'm not a war crazy person I just want to see these terrorists brought to justice and war is the only way I'm thinkin is going to work.

I think most Americans are aligned with this sentiment.

Libya has changed, Iraq is struggling but succeeding, The Palestinian/Israel conflict is stabilizing, Lebanon is demanding democracy, Egypt is softening

Why?

because war IS the answer in the M.E.... Power is the language that is understood there. (I've spent time there, Iknow)

 

[Strangelove]

There is no debate here, the war on terror is bogus. Bush is taking on the entire middle east almost to kill innocent people who haven't attacked us. Squack made a good point at the beginning, what is the terrorist to innocent person death ratio. Terrorists see us as the point of all evil because we're rich and their poor so we must be evil. I'm not saying we're perfect but we certainly aren't evil. Also, this rumor about invading iran for having nuclear weapons is also bogus. We have more nuclear weapons than the whole world combined. And we've killed hundreds of thousands of people with them. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to do this?

Is your name Neville Chamberlain?

 

[GarzaUK]

I want revenge on the people who took 3,000 lives on 9/11 not for me but for the American families that lost loved ones. I'm not a war crazy person I just want to see these terrorists brought to justice and war is the only way I'm thinkin is going to work.

You want revenge for 9/11 victims? So for their deaths to not be in vain you justify the killing of more innocent civilians, at least 3 times more that died on that September morning. Those civilians didn't drive those planes into WTC, who is going to avenge their deaths?
I certainly hope those dead people of the WTC didn't want innocent men, woman and children to die in their name.
Since your a teenager I'll give you some slack, you have alot to learn about death and the world. At your age, I would have similar post to yours, scary now when I think about it.

You think war is the only way to defeat terrorism? Your actually naive enough to think terror can be defeated? Something that has existed since modern man picked up a sharp stick. Terrorism will never be defeated - it is part of human nature unfortunely.

If terrorism is a flame, war is gasoline. War causes innocent deaths, which causes hate, which causes anger, which causes a man to pick up a gun to avenge his dead family. War is the problem in the war on terror.

I lived with terrorism personally, the British couldn't defeat the IRA in 30 years on their own turf. How is America going to defeat terror worldwide?

 

[Repubteen]

You want revenge for 9/11 victims? So for their deaths to not be in vain you justify the killing of more innocent civilians, at least 3 times more that died on that September morning. Those civilians didn't drive those planes into WTC, who is going to avenge their deaths?

First off you make it sound like Americans are the only ones killing the civilians. I highly doubt we are killing them just for the sake of killing them. What about these car bombers. How many do they kill daily? And im sure the Iraqi people would rather suffer for these months than have Saddam Hussein in power and have a life of missory.They are dieing as heros for the sake of freedom in their country.Also what your saying is that it was OK for these terrorists to kill 3000 people and have us do nothing about it?

Since your a teenager I'll give you some slack, you have alot to learn about death and the world. At your age, I would have similar post to yours, scary now when I think about it.

I have to learn about death and the world? Have you ever been in the military because that is the only way id think you would know more about death than me.And I have to learn about the world? I know how this world works, unfortunately its a dog eat cat world, and eye for an eye and thats the way it will always be.

 

[Repubteen]

Oh and don't act like your some experienced adult your only 21

 

[GarzaUK]

First off you make it sound like Americans are the only ones killing the civilians. I highly doubt we are killing them just for the sake of killing them. What about these car bombers. How many do they kill daily? And im sure the Iraqi people would rather suffer for these months than have Saddam Hussein in power and have a life of missory.They are dieing as heros for the sake of freedom in their country.Also what your saying is that it was OK for these terrorists to kill 3000 people and have us do nothing about it?

I never said that Americans were the only ones killing innocents. But you do agree that the war was America's idea, so by not waging war those innocents would be alive correct? Unless of course suicide bombers were killing people at a regular basis in Iraq and Afganistan before the war, but last time I checked they weren't.
Yeah I agree you should have done something about it, capture the guilty who planned the Sept 11th attack, bring them to justice - there sorted, the deaths of the Sept 11th have been avenged. But Iraq? I can't remember Iraq ever attacking America or a hijacker being an Iraqi. How are you avenging lives by invading a country who had nothing to do with the act?

I have to learn about death and the world? Have you ever been in the military because that is the only way id think you would know more about death than me.

Oh I do apoligise, I didn't know you already know everything. In fact why I'm I debating you - your obviously right :rofl . I joined to learn as well as argue, it takes a big man to say he was wrong. I was wrong in being right-wing when I was a teenager. Men tend to go through a right-wing faze in their teens, I certainly did. I found that ring-wing people fear and hate too much.
Like I said I've lived with terrorism, do I know about death?, well I did lose friends due to terrorism. When I was a baby, my Mum tied a blanket around my bedroom window, so that if a grenade or petrol bomb was thrown in, it would bounce back out. My dad fought terrorism. Thankfully now when I was 14 the British made a deal with the IRA - now their is peace, not war.

And I have to learn about the world? I know how this world works, unfortunately its a dog eat cat world, and eye for an eye and thats the way it will always be

If what you are saying is true, then what is the point of the human race as a whole?

 

[Rhadamanthus]

As you were saying, war fuels terrorism. War and hate and hunger and a low minimum wage. If a poor person has spent their life being downtrodden by the better off, one day they will be so full of hate they will want to strike out at the rich person, the ones who are better off than they. Who would they strike? Their not going to bomb bangladesh. Now when you take hate fueled by religious fanatacism and give it a target like, say, america, you get people flying planes into buildings as a result. It seems to me logical that to stomp out terrorism you would have to stomp out what causes terrorism. Terrorism is just a symptom of something more.

By the way, i'm a teenager and i'm not a conservative.

 

[Rhadamanthus]

oh another question for GarzaUK. What exactly were the demands of the IRA and what was the deal that they cut with the govornment? I have an idea but i'm sure you know much more about it than i do.

 

[mixedmedia]

well I didn't mean Kabul exactly i just couldn't think of a common "terrorist" city. But how do we handle these terrorists, I don't want to just fix our port security and make our airports safer. I want revenge on the people who took 3,000 lives on 9/11 not for me but for the American families that lost loved ones. I'm not a war crazy person I just want to see these terrorists brought to justice and war is the only way I'm thinkin is going to work.

By the way Family Guy is such a great show, I own all three seasons...

There are no terrorist cities. Just as there are no mechanic cities or barber cities. There are cities and they are filled with a diverse selection of people. Most of them families. We will never solve the problem of terrorism with war. And, in fact, I believe that our leaders know this. The issue of terrorism is being used to justify a foreign policy that has been long desired by many of the key figures in power in Washington at this time. I feel like I am harping on the neoconservative issue alot with no feedback or acknowledgement but I truly believe there are forces at play here that have nothing to do with terrorism other than the philosophy that a middle east/arab world westernized by force will naturally move away from the destabilizing practices of terrorism. Not an altogether evil philosophy, but one I strongly disagree with as a person who feels that anything other than a non-violent solution based on human rights & the establishment of economically secure societies with respect to the diversity of native cultures in the middle east will ever resolve the conflicts we are facing now. A tall order perhaps, but in world matters I like to dream big and favor practices that do not infringe on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Guess I'm just an old-fashioned girl that way.

Revenge is a negative concept that breeds only hate and more desire for revenge. It says so in the Bible. It's best to let it be. Love thine enemy even. Jesus set a challenge before man that has yet to even be tried. Lots of lip service, but when the chips are down, nobody really has faith. So sad and pathetic.

 

[Squawker]

Revenge is a negative concept that breeds only hate and more desire for revenge. It says so in the Bible. It's best to let it be. Love thine enemy even. Jesus set a challenge before man that has yet to even be tried. Lots of lip service, but when the chips are down, nobody really has faith. So sad and pathetic.

Turning the other cheek has already been tried by the Clinton Administration, and 9/11 happened anyway. Not getting a handle on Terrorism early only emboldened them to do more acts. That is sad and pathetic.

 

[mixedmedia]

Turning the other cheek has already been tried by the Clinton Administration, and 9/11 happened anyway. Not getting a handle on Terrorism early only emboldened them to do more acts. That is sad and pathetic.

Your lack of vision is typical. There has NEVER been any turning of the cheek by any nation on earth. Turning the other cheek is not the same as ignoring it or hoping for the best. That is not what the lesson is supposed to teach. It is a spiritual concept. Killing in a mass style is easy to comprehend when you're speaking in generalities sitting in a country that has never had bombs dropped on it. Any natural-born American convinced that they know what the real meaning & necessity of war is is an idiot.