War on Terror is bogus

[Simon W. Moon]

The terrorist cells grew because we did nothing, not because we did something.

Now terrorist cels and support for anti-American terrorism is growing because we've started a damn fool war in Iraq.

 

[MSgt]

Terrorist cells aren't growing. Syria and Iran are wasting their "martyrs" by sending them to their deaths in Iraq. Their reserves are running low. There is a reason why they have chosen to target their own Muslim people over military targets.

The spread of Democracy is the only way to end all of this Islamist terrorism against American civillians. Starting it in Iraq forced a wedge between Iran and Syria. We'll see what happens in the years to follow.

 

[aquapub]

Wow! I was going to set the schmuck straight who would start such an idiotic topic, but gysgt just kicked the ***** out of the lefty weiner. "Nothing more needs to be said about the motives of the left."

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Terrorist cells aren't growing.

Perhaps you should contact the Department of Defense and the CIA and set them straight.

Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Strategic Communication

Worldwide anger and discontent are directed at America’s tarnished credibility[!] and ways the U.S. pursues its goals[!].

"The information campaign — or as some still would have it, “the war of ideas,” or the struggle for “hearts and minds” — is important to every war effort. In this war it is an essential objective ... But American efforts have not only failed in this respect: they may also have achieved the opposite of what they intended.
American direct intervention in the Muslim World has paradoxically elevated the stature of and support for radical Islamists ...
Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering.

• Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an Ummah ... to broad public support.

• What was a marginal network is now an Ummah-wide movement of fighting groups. Not only has there been a proliferation of “terrorist” groups: the unifying context of a shared cause creates a sense of affiliation across the many cultural and sectarian boundaries that divide Islam.

​

Testimony of Director of Central Intelligence Porter J. Goss Before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
16 February 2005

Islamic extremists are exploiting the Iraqi conflict to recruit new anti-US jihadists.
These jihadists who survive will leave Iraq experienced in and focused on acts of urban terrorism. They represent a potential pool of contacts to build transnational terrorist cells, groups, and networks in Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries.

​

http://www.foia.cia.gov/2020/2020.pdf

• Anti-globalization and opposition to
US policies could cement a greater
body of terrorist sympathizers,
financiers, and collaborators.
societies.
• Iraq and other possible conflicts in
the future could provide recruitment,
training grounds, technical skills and
language proficiency for a new class
of terrorists who are “professionalized”
and for whom political
violence becomes an end in itself.

​

'New militant threat' from Iraq

The insurgency in Iraq is creating a new type of Islamic militant who could go on to destabilise other countries, a leaked CIA report says.

The classified document says Iraqi and foreign fighters are developing a broad range of skills, from car bombings and assassinations to co-ordinated attacks.

It says these skills may make them more dangerous than fighters from Afghanistan in the 1980s and 1990s.

And the threat may grow when the Iraq insurgency ends and fighters disperse.

The broad conclusions of the report have been confirmed by an unnamed CIA official and are said to have been widely circulated in the intelligence community.

​

Iraq May Be Prime Place for Training of Militants, C.I.A. Report Concludes

A new classified assessment by the Central Intelligence Agency says Iraq may prove to be an even more effective training ground for Islamic extremists than Afghanistan was in Al Qaeda's early days, because it is serving as a real-world laboratory for urban combat.

They said the assessment had argued that Iraq, since the American invasion of 2003, had in many ways assumed the role played by Afghanistan during the rise of Al Qaeda during the 1980's and 1990's, as a magnet and a proving ground for Islamic extremists from Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries.

​

Iraq a site to train terrorists, CIA says

The CIA believes the Iraq insurgency poses an international threat and may produce better-trained Islamic terrorists than the 1980s Afghanistan war that gave rise to Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, officials said yesterday.​

Once the insurgency ends, Islamic militants are likely to disperse as highly organized battle-hardened combatants capable of operating throughout the Arab-speaking world and in other regions including Europe.

The May report, which has been widely circulated in the intelligence community, also cites a potential threat to the United States.

Although the Afghan war against the Soviets was largely fought on a rural battlefield, the CIA report said, Iraq is providing extremists with more comprehensive skills including training in operations devised for populated urban areas.
​

I'm sure that the CIA and the DoD phone numbers are listed somewhere (or you could prob'ly email them) and that they'd be glad to accept correction from you.
Give 'em a call and let 'em know.

Of course, they might ask how you know. So, to practice for that part, perhaps you could share your source of information about how there has not been a proliferation of terrorist groups.


I'm eagerly anticipating finding out how you came to have better info on terrorists than the DoD and the CIA.

So whenever you get ready, fill us in.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Wow! I was going to set the schmuck straight who would start such an idiotic topic, but gysgt just kicked the ***** out of the lefty weiner. "Nothing more needs to be said about the motives of the left."

Whom exactly are you referring to with the insults "schmuck" and "lefty weiner?"
Someone here on this MB?

 

[MSgt]

A lot of could ofs, would ofs, and maybes.

This was a fight that has been building for over fifty years. Let's draw them all out now and be done with them.

 

[akyron]

When you are the world's lone superpower, you are bound to step on toes and engender dislike from various factions. Unfortunately, there is no getting around this as it goes with the territory. As far as civilian and unintended casualties, I know of no war where this has not occured. This is not meant to be a moralistic excuse. Rather, the sad fact is that civilian casualties are another ugly byproduct of war.

US support for dictators and tyrants was a necessary yet nearsighted vestage of the Cold war era. Perhaps that is slowly changing. Associating with tyrants was/is hypocitical and shameful, and disassociating ourselves will also cause pain and heartache. I know this sounds simplistic, yet the simple truths are often the most profound ones.

I always enjoy your posts whether I agree or not. There are only 2 others I can say that about.

I agree with the necessary evils comment but what were the alternatives? Should Iran have won the Iraq/Iran conflict?
Maintaining the status quo was in our best interests at the time but now what?
There are definitely some changes coming soon.

 

[akyron]

Now terrorist cels and support for anti-American terrorism is growing because we've started a damn fool war in Iraq.

Damn fool war in the region has been going on in the region for nearly 30 centuries. The US is just the flavor of the month.

It is past time to put an end to it.

 

[teacher]

A lot of could ofs, would ofs, and maybes.

This was a fight that has been building for over fifty years. Let's draw them all out now and be done with them.

You know Gunny you say it all and say it well. Which leaves me nothing to say at all but this. Way to hold the line.

 

[teacher]

I agree with the necessary evils comment but what were the alternatives?

War. But at least our leaders have finally figured that out.

There are definitely some changes coming soon.

Should say: yet even more changes are coming soon.
Qaddafi disarmed real fast.
47% of Afghan voters were women.
Syria out of Lebanon.
Satellite dishes in liberated countries.
Iraqis proudly holding up ink stained fingers.
Kuwait now with women in government.
Terrorists dying by the truckload.
Not yet another attack on our homeland.
And imagine the hushed talk of hope in the still oppressed Arab countries.

Yet the libs still cling to their "I hate Bush" mantra. So what, everything else is going according to plan. The way I see it things are looking pretty friggin good because of W's actions.

And lest we forget the freed women. Free some more.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

What about the 350,000 people displaced in Afghanistan? They die of exposure and starvation everyday. Do you really think they don't hate America? How do you think their lives are looking as a result of W's actions?

 

[MSgt]

As with all the desolate and decrepit lifestyles in the Middle East that have existed for decades, the Afghanistan government's failure to take care of their own people is not our fault, though, they will be told that it is by their clerek leaders. For you see, it is always our fault. Pointing the finger at us as the scape goat is the norm for those governments. It alleviates them of responsibility, while remaining in power.

What's worse than them believing such lies, are the millions of Americans that give it credit by believing it too.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

We drop bombs on someone's house... and it's not our fault?

 

[MSgt]

Now you are spreading lies along with the terror regimes of the Middle East. Dropping bombs on military targets and destroying a house next to it hardly account for 350,000 homeless. The Taliban is to blame for what they have caused in their own country.

I suppose if we go to Rawanda and drop a bomb on a target and destroy someone's house, we will be responsible for the millions that are homeless there too.

The amount of civillian deaths contributed to our attacks is so extremely low that you wouldn't even know about it if it weren't for the liberal media trying it's hardest to undermine progress and to sell the story to those who will listen.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

So you think that a house was destroyed next to a military target and then 350,000 people left the area?

I'm trying to understand, really I am.

 

[MSgt]

No, you are not trying to understand. You have heard lies and misinformation and are grand standing just like Durbin did. We did not cause any of that. The former Taliban government has fallen, so now there are many people that have been forced to leave their areas by their fellow Muslims who were formally opressed by them. They do it to themselves, just like they have always done it to themselves. They are not a union of people. They are seperated into tribal religious sects and have very little tolerance for each other.

The amount of civillian deaths contributed to our attacks is so extremely low that you wouldn't even know about it if it weren't for the liberal media trying it's hardest to undermine progress and to sell the story to those who will listen.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

No, you are not trying to understand. You have heard lies and misinformation and are grand standing just like Durbin did. We did not cause any of that. The former Taliban government has fallen, so now there are many people that have been forced to leave their areas by their fellow Muslims who were formally opressed by them. They do it to themselves, just like they have always done it to themselves. They are not a union of people. They are seperated into tribal religious sects and have very little tolerance for each other.

The amount of civillian deaths contributed to our attacks is so extremely low that you wouldn't even know about it if it weren't for the liberal media trying it's hardest to undermine progress and to sell the story to those who will listen.

Proffessor Marc Herold has studied domestic and foriegn press reports and calculated more than 3,700 deaths from our bombings.

Also, you have to think about the huge numbers of people, perhaps more than 1 million, who have fled the cities and towns where they live because of the bombing.

From Terrorism and War by Howard Zinn.

He also quotes a report from the Guardian about A SINGLE refugee camp called Maslakh(slaughethouse) that has more than 350,000 displaced people. That's not very low. 3,700 people dead during JUST THE BOMBING. That's not very low.

If you have some sort of source that says that only 2 people have died in Afghanistan, great! That's great news. If you could provide a source that says that formerly oppressed muslims are forcing people out of there homes, and those are the ones that account for the displaced peoples, great. Personally, I don't think this is true, but I don't think you to be dishonest. If you have such a source, I'd love to see it.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

A lot of could ofs, would ofs, and maybes.

This was a fight that has been building for over fifty years. Let's draw them all out now and be done with them.

So, basically you're saying you've got nothin'. All right then, As long as we're clear.

Can't help but notice that the CIA and DoD are not saying there could be, would be, or maybe fewer terrorists.
Why do suppose that is?

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

So, basically you're saying you've got nothin'. All right then, As long as we're clear.

Can't help but notice that the CIA and DoD are not saying there could be, would be, or maybe fewer terrorists.
Why do suppose that is?

You can read every article you can find on this subject, but you'll never see an accurate count as to how many terrorists there are. More or less? We can't possibly know. We don't know how many there were to begin with, nor do we know how many were already in the making. Until 9/11 we had forgotten how much these people hate us. In a short amount of time, as long as life gets back to normal, we forget the acts of terror; especially if it didn't affect our lives personally. And let's face it; most of these acts have not affected most Americans personally.

 

[MSgt]

CIA gives numbers. Liberal Professors analyze paper work and reports and come up with scenarios and possibilities. Other Professors that would analyze those same reports with the social issues that exist in the Islamist world would come up with something totally different. The media runs stories on it and civillians give them their money for follow ups as long as the story involves contriversy. The same crap occurs for every war. Everybody fails to take into account tribal feuding, existing hunger, and the oppression that their governments feed on. The military does not bomb whole cities and villages and towns. Selected targets are hit and sourrounding collateral damage is kept to a minimum. What occurs in war has been what has always occured in war. What is unfair is to attribute all of the ailing problems in the Middle East on America's bombing. It is near sighted and ignorant to what the Middle East really is.

We are seeing the same thing in Iraq. Thousands and thousands of Sunni's in many areas have been kicked out of their homes now that Saddam isn't their to hold them above their neighbors. This is their lifestyle and their problem. America is not to blame for their prejudices and bigotry to their own people.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

You can read every article you can find on this subject, but you'll never see an accurate count as to how many terrorists there are. More or less? We can't possibly know.

I've just provided a reference to our best estimates.
If you know of a better estimate please share.

 

[Tashah]

He also quotes a report from the Guardian about A SINGLE refugee camp called Maslakh(slaughethouse) that has more than 350,000 displaced people. That's not very low. 3,700 people dead during JUST THE BOMBING. That's not very low.

The Guardian is probably the most liberal-leaning anti-American rag in the UK.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

The Guardian is probably the most liberal-leaning anti-American rag in the UK.

Therefore, the numbers are completely fabricated? :doh

 

[Tashah]

Therefore, the numbers are completely fabricated? :doh

Completely fabricated? Hmmm... *highly suspect* will suffice.

 

[MSgt]

They are fabricated. They take the worst possibly scenarios and print them.

The same people that would say that the Guardian is fact are the same people that say the American Government figures are lies. Both are used to persuade.

Seeing a number count of the amount of civillian casualties in Iraq hardly tell you the truth. What is never printed is the overwhelming percentage of civillians on that list that are murdered by their own Muslims. Knowing this wouldn't suit the liberal agendas, because they only want to blame America for everything.