Wait, California has lower middle-class taxes than Texas?

[AARguy]

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Dude, if California was its own country it would have the 6th highest GDP in the world. The only time California has had any serious problems in recent history was when Schwartzenegger was the governor and he was a Republican.
Jerry Brown brought California back from the abyss and Gavin Newsome is going to win this stupid recall bullshit in a landslide.

Yeah... California is doing great. LA has typhus. You wade through human feces walking the streets of San Francisco. You trip over homeless sleeping on sidewalks in LaMesa. You have to wear Obedience Masks in LA while the rest of the country is free. CA is obsessed with controlling its citizens, even to the point of banning plastic bags in supermarkets. With state income taxes hovering around 14%, California's taxes are oppressive. While Constitution guarantees that "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed", CA imposes crippling taxes on gun and ammunition sales while forcing a background check every time you buy a box of ammunition. Heck you can't even have straws!!!! Gas prices are through the ROOF!!!

We didn't "leave" CA three years ago... we ESCAPED.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Yeah... California is doing great. LA has typhus. You wade through human feces walking the streets of San Francisco. You trip over homeless sleeping on sidewalks in LaMesa. You have to wear Obedience Masks in LA while the rest of the country is free. CA is obsessed with controlling its citizens, even to the point of banning plastic bags in supermarkets. With state income taxes hovering around 14%, California's taxes are oppressive. While Constitution guarantees that "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed", CA imposes crippling taxes on gun and ammunition sales while forcing a background check every time you buy a box of ammunition. Heck you can't even have straws!!!! Gas prices are through the ROOF!!!

We didn't "leave" CA three years ago... we ESCAPED.

Liar.

I was in SF last week. It's a beautiful city.

Stop lying.

 

[Geoist]

The data are clear and the concept is simple. Higher demand increases prices because buyers can choose the higher bidders. Millionaires will make more money by selling to millionaires and they are more determined to protect their investments by passing local zoning and building regulations which restrict building (supply). And this is not about "blue" or "red" homeowners. It is about self-interest which makes both conservatives and liberals willing to impose regulations that protect the value of their investment. Most want to make profit and also want to preserve their lifestyle and avoid or delay as much as they can rapid urbanization. The idea that people seek a revenue-neutral solution is a fantasy.

How is it a fantasy? A revenue-neutral solution is a compromise. It is about shifting tax burden away from the working/middle class and placing it onto the wealthy speculators who drive up housing prices on the lower classes. This idea should appeal to anyone who isn't an elitist. Honestly surprised a self-described socialist is taking issue with putting more burden on the wealthy.

Speculation exists but is not a mere product of lowering the taxes.

When the tax on land values are so low that a landowner can sit on it for years to wait for values to go up then the tax is TOO low.

This is a gross simplification of what may happen under certain conditions. You can have speculation even when the houses are affordable to more people.

Of course. No one said otherwise.

The 2009 bubble was such a case. As I said before I cannot see a correlation in real life between lower taxes and higher housing prices. NY has insanely real estate prices despite its higher taxes.

So long as the real estate prices are worth the taxes then they will speculate and drive up prices up further.

 

[Geoist]

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Dude, if California was its own country it would have the 6th highest GDP in the world. The only time California has had any serious problems in recent history was when Schwartzenegger was the governor and he was a Republican.
Jerry Brown brought California back from the abyss and Gavin Newsome is going to win this stupid recall bullshit in a landslide.

As I said to the other guy: The USA has the highest GDP by a longshot. DO you deny the USA has problems?

 

[Aunt Antifa]

You don't know what a "northern ghetto" is? Have you ever driven through the South Bronx? Spanish Harlem? Baltimore? Newark? Chicago shooting gallery areas?

Oh, you mean anywhere people of color live. Gotcha.

 

[phoenix2020]

I think the assessment of California should be more measured than the two polar extremes being posed here:

1. It is true that California macroscopically is doing amazingly well, economically, but we mustn't lose sight of how much that economic engine is being driven by some specific industry sectors (especially tech) that most residents do not participate in. I am very grateful and blessed to benefit from it, however I see multiple tent camps every time I go out for a drive here in San Jose, no matter my destination or route. The homelessness problem is terrible. It's pervasive and so much worse than it was just five years ago.

2. It is true that there is a great deal of homelessness in the major cities etc. That said, there is no other place where a couple of hours' drive can take me to lush giant redwood forests, snow-capped mountains, bonafide desert, or an expansive ocean beach. It's a lovely and precious state, and one of the few places where state government, regardless of the party in charge, puts the environment first: clean air and water, and preserved natural beauty comes before economic interests even when a (R) is making the decisions. I love that there is a part of the country where that mindset exists.

 

[MrWonka]

As I said to the other guy: The USA has the highest GDP by a longshot. DO you deny the USA has problems?

GDP has historically been one of the favorite measuring sticks of Conservatives, not Liberals. We're just using your own arguments against you.

 

[AARguy]

Liar.

I was in SF last week. It's a beautiful city.

Stop lying.

Sorry... your anecdotal observations don't change the facts. Look past your little trip and look at the BIG PICTURE:

https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/22/california-poop-streets-homeless/

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-human-poop-problem-2019-4

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/apnewsalert/2020/01/22/id/928925/

 

[Geoist]

GDP has historically been one of the favorite measuring sticks of Conservatives, not Liberals. We're just using your own arguments against you.

Do you realize I'm a frikkin' leftist? It's not like I'm new here.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Sorry... your anecdotal observations don't change the facts. Look past your little trip and look at the BIG PICTURE:

https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/22/california-poop-streets-homeless/

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-human-poop-problem-2019-4

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/apnewsalert/2020/01/22/id/928925/

You have one valid source there business insider. Yes there are some problems in small areas. Go there and go about your business, chances are you'll never see it.its a beautiful city.

 

[phoenix2020]

You have one valid source there business insider. Yes there are some problems in small areas. Go there and go about your business, chances are you'll never see it.its a beautiful city.

In all fairness, a ton of us South Bay residents are basically avoiding SF due to break-ins these days. I've lost track of the number of friends who had car windows shattered after taking a day trip to the city, and are not going back anytime soon. I don't think the general cleanliness is particularly worse than any other major city (on the aggregate it's probably better) but the break-ins are way out of hand now.

National retailers don't close all their locations en masse in one city alone just because they felt like it.

 

[pamak]

How is it a fantasy? A revenue-neutral solution is a compromise. It is about shifting tax burden away from the working/middle class and placing it onto the wealthy speculators who drive up housing prices on the lower classes. This idea should appeal to anyone who isn't an elitist. Honestly surprised a self-described socialist is taking issue with putting more burden on the wealthy.



When the tax on land values are so low that a landowner can sit on it for years to wait for values to go up then the tax is TOO low.



Of course. No one said otherwise.



So long as the real estate prices are worth the taxes then they will speculate and drive up prices up further.

I do not see people compromising on makingg profit. This is also th reason why homeowners often refuse to make compromises in accomodating the housing needs of low-income people. The NIMBY (Not in my Backyard) Movement with respect to opposition of constructingg affordable housing is a clear example of this ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIMBY) As I said, I see no reason to explain the high prices in the CA housing market as a result o speculation by developers. The simple fact is that while the CA population was rising for decades, the square miles of the state's remain the same. Higher demand leads to higher bids for land purchase and this is the case even when multiple developers are interested in a construction project. Higher land price measn also that the developers will make profit mostly by selling more expensive houses to the wealthier part f the population. And the fact that local zoning regulations are affected by the wealthiest homeowners who have more interested in local politics to protect their investments and lifestyle makes housing even more expensive for the (roughly) bottom half of the less afluent Americans. Such dynamics exist in states with with lower property taxes, like CA and higher property taxes like NY. This is why I see state population density (better metric is living population density) as a much more relevant factor.

 

[Geoist]

I do not see people compromising on makingg profit.

Why push any left/socialist reforms at all then?

 

[pamak]

Why push any left/socialist reforms at all then?

Exactly because I do not count on charities, altruism and personal compromises by the wealhier citizens to address issues that involve a clash of competing interests. This applies also when we have competing interests between homeowners and renters.

 

[Geoist]

Exactly because I do not count on charities, altruism and personal compromises by the wealhier citizens to address issues that involve a clash of competing interests. This applies also when we have competing interests between homeowners and renters.

It is not a competing interest between homeowners and renters. People who buy homes have to pay higher prices thanks to speculators. No different from renters having to pay higher rents.

 

[pamak]

It is not a competing interest between homeowners and renters. People who buy homes have to pay higher prices thanks to speculators. No different from renters having to pay higher rents.

There is competing interests when homewoners refuse to accept zoning and building regulations that have the potentital to affect the value of their property, such as construction projects for smaller, cluttered and cheaper houses.
Annd the higher rent which indeed coexist with the more expensive housing goes also to homewowners.

 

[Geoist]

There is competing interests when homewoners refuse to accept zoning and building regulations that have the potentital to affect the value of their property, such as construction projects of smaller and cheaper houses.

Okay? I am not necessarily proposing building public housing in specific areas. I propose a tax to replace property taxes and will unburden working class and middle class homeowners while burdening wealthy real estate speculators who snatch up every piece of land they can for profit. Nobody created the land and the value should be held in common. As a socialist, you should understand that.

 

[pamak]

Okay? I am not necessarily proposing building public housing in specific areas. I propose a tax to replace property taxes and will unburden working class and middle class homeowners while burdening wealthy real estate speculators who snatch up every piece of land they can for profit. Nobody created the land and the value should be held in common. As a socialist, you should understand that.

You responded before I completed the editing of my response. Notice that I added that the higher rent also goes to homeowners. I am not against socilaist policies. I do believe that political compromises are less difficult than personal compromises. I can see homeowners being more willing to accept some type of policy that may negatively affect their and every other homewowner's house than having a homeowner trying to be the good Samaritan hoping that enough people will emulate him to make a real difference in the housing market. I do not have easy answers for a solution, and I do not see a single measure as being enough to fix anything.

 

[Sagittarius83]

Last place I worked for in the states was in Utah.
So many companies were escaping draconian environmental laws and high corporate taxes in California. Mine was one of them.
California puts up with so much from it’s worthless dregs population which it constantly enables because it has so many big companies to bleed.
If a significant number of big companies leave then where are Nancy and Newsom going to get their money to fund this nonsense?
I say spread the enormous California economy through the Rocky Mountain states and leave Newsom and Pelosi to fight for votes between the Bloods and Crips.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Red States do have lower taxes than blue States. Even your own data proves it.

Alaska is a red State and has zero State sales or income taxes. The only reason Alaska ranks #21 in property taxes is because a large section of Alaska also does not pay property taxes. So the reality is that Alaska should be somewhere between #10 and #15 in property taxes, for those who actually do pay property taxes.

My property taxes in the Matanuska-Susitna Borough, for example, is more along the lines with Michigan, which ranks #8, taxing at 1.62% of the property value. However, other boroughs in Alaska have lower property taxes. So if you were to exclude the unorganized boroughs in Alaska which do not have any property taxes and you only include the boroughs where property taxes exist, then Alaska falls somewhere in the 1.50% to 1.25% property tax range.

Alaska is also a huge recipient of federal spending. Blue states tend to pay more in federal taxes than they get back in spending while red states tend to pay much less in federal taxes than they get back in spending. Over a third of the public spending in Alaska is federal.

 

[American]

One of the big myths that Republicans like to sell us is that red states necessarily have lower taxes than blue states. The reality of the situation is much murkier.

Wait, California Has Lower Middle-Class Taxes Than Texas?

Wait, California Has Lower Middle-Class Taxes Than Texas?

www.bloombergquint.com

Texas has no state income taxes, but it has some of the highest property taxes in the nation.

The idea that Texas is a low-tax haven is only true for big corporations who reap too many of the benefits.

Uh, not so much.

State and Local Tax Burdens, Calendar Year 2022

Tax burdens rose across the country as pandemic-era economic changes caused taxable income, activities, and property values to rise faster than net national product. Tax burdens in 2020, 2021, and 2022 are all higher than in any other year since 1978.

taxfoundation.org

 

[mrjurrs]

Do the property taxes go up as the assessed value of the home increases?

Nope, privately held property (including commercial and corporate properties) are reassessed at transfer of ownership. Property tax bills go up a little each year with new bond etc issues added to them.

 

[longview]

Nope, privately held property (including commercial and corporate properties) are reassessed at transfer of ownership. Property tax bills go up a little each year with new bond etc issues added to them.

I wish they would do that in Texas, assessed values can go up, by 10% per year.

 

[mrjurrs]

I wish they would do that in Texas, assessed values can go up, by 10% per year.

I would say that you should be careful of what you wish for. CA can point to the passage of Prop 13 as a tipping point for funding public education. It also adds to the housing issues here. People hold onto large homes long after they would have moved to just keep their tax level.

 

[Glitch]

Alaska is also a huge recipient of federal spending. Blue states tend to pay more in federal taxes than they get back in spending while red states tend to pay much less in federal taxes than they get back in spending. Over a third of the public spending in Alaska is federal.

That is because you are truly ignorant of what is actually happening. The federal government isn't giving Alaska a damn thing. They are spending all that taxpayer money on federal military bases, the National Defense System, federal buildings, and federal National Parks and other federal lands. So you continue to believe your nonsense, while we laugh at your abject ignorance.

Looks like your leftist indoctrination isn't serving you as well as that education you should have gotten.