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Wait, California has lower middle-class taxes than Texas?

Phys251

Purge evil with Justice
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One of the big myths that Republicans like to sell us is that red states necessarily have lower taxes than blue states. The reality of the situation is much murkier.


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Texas has no state income taxes, but it has some of the highest property taxes in the nation.

The idea that Texas is a low-tax haven is only true for big corporations who reap too many of the benefits.
 
One of the big myths that Republicans like to sell us is that red states necessarily have lower taxes than blue states. The reality of the situation is much murkier.


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Texas has no state income taxes, but it has some of the highest property taxes in the nation.

The idea that Texas is a low-tax haven is only true for big corporations who reap too many of the benefits.
People seem to be unaware that states have to fund their expenditures somehow.
 
Florida has a low tax rate but then you get lousy services and worse> Floridah. Only state I've ever lived in that takes 14 months to build an ramp leading to the expressway/freeway.
By the time they poured the concrete, the rebar looked like it was in the ocean for 6 months....rusted as hell. Plus the so-call traffic engineers are on a par with Bozo-the-Clown.
 
One of the big myths that Republicans like to sell us is that red states necessarily have lower taxes than blue states. The reality of the situation is much murkier.


1200x-1.png


Texas has no state income taxes, but it has some of the highest property taxes in the nation.

The idea that Texas is a low-tax haven is only true for big corporations who reap too many of the benefits.
But... but... Democrats! California is run by Democrats! This can't possibly be. Next, you'll be claiming that it has a surplus, when we know that only Republicans cut taxes and have surpluses!

 
Personally, I believe California's low property taxes have contributed to runaway land speculation. In the 1940s, California had high property taxes and low sales tax and income tax. That eventually flipped and they've had problems ever since.
 
One of the big myths that Republicans like to sell us is that red states necessarily have lower taxes than blue states. The reality of the situation is much murkier.


1200x-1.png


Texas has no state income taxes, but it has some of the highest property taxes in the nation.

The idea that Texas is a low-tax haven is only true for big corporations who reap too many of the benefits.

BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE THIS FOR AGES! 🤣🤣🤣
We lived in Mansfield TX for many years and we not only got charged for Johnson County, we also had to pay Tarrant County too.
And the moment you leave your driveway, you're paying tolls, fees, the kitchen sink.
All this crap about not having a state income tax is just a fancy bamboozle.
 
One of the big myths that Republicans like to sell us is that red states necessarily have lower taxes than blue states. The reality of the situation is much murkier.


1200x-1.png


Texas has no state income taxes, but it has some of the highest property taxes in the nation.

The idea that Texas is a low-tax haven is only true for big corporations who reap too many of the benefits.
What's happening with the consumer utility rates in TX these days?
 
Personally, I believe California's low property taxes have contributed to runaway land speculation. In the 1940s, California had high property taxes and low sales tax and income tax. That eventually flipped and they've had problems ever since.

If you are referring to our insane home prices, our problem with housing prices comes from a shortage of housing. The failure to increase the supply of housing, whether single-family residences, multi-unit apartments and everything in between to keep up with the demand of our growing population has naturally led to an increase in the cost. Now, if you mean that low property taxes means that people who already own homes are more easily able to afford keeping the homes they have managed to pay off without having to worry about their homes being foreclosed on at tax auctions, you may be right. But raising property taxes are the ultimate form of regressive tax because it makes it more difficult for the working class or those living on fixed income to own a home and build or maintain wealth. And if someone owns a rental property (single family, multi-family, multi-unit apartment, etc.), the increased property taxes would simply be passed on to the renters.
 
If you are referring to our insane home prices, our problem with housing prices comes from a shortage of housing. The failure to increase the supply of housing, whether single-family residences, multi-unit apartments and everything in between to keep up with the demand of our growing population has naturally led to an increase in the cost. Now, if you mean that low property taxes means that people who already own homes are more easily able to afford keeping the homes they have managed to pay off without having to worry about their homes being foreclosed on at tax auctions, you may be right.

Low property taxes encourage speculative behavior. If you make the tax negligible for landowners then there is little incentive for them to sell the property to those who will build homes.

But raising property taxes are the ultimate form of regressive tax because it makes it more difficult for the working class or those living on fixed income to own a home and build or maintain wealth. And if someone owns a rental property (single family, multi-family, multi-unit apartment, etc.), the increased property taxes would simply be passed on to the renters.

Actually, when the property tax is implemented as a land value tax they are the most progressive of all taxes. In fact, libertarians have advocated for it, including Milton Friedman and founder of the Libertarian Party, David Nolan. LVT discourages speculative behavior that actually drives up the costs of homes/property.
 
Low property taxes encourage speculative behavior. If you make the tax negligible for landowners then there is little incentive for them to sell the property to those who will build homes.
I have little doubt that much of the cause of California's housing crisis comes from wealthy landowners not wanting to loosen their chokehold on the limited supply of housing by allowing the promotion of more development.

Actually, when the property tax is implemented as a land value tax they are the most progressive of all taxes. In fact, libertarians have advocated for it, including Milton Friedman and founder of the Libertarian Party, David Nolan. LVT discourages speculative behavior that actually drives up the costs of homes/property.

As much as I love the work of Professor Milton Friedman, he was not exactly an advocate for the interests of those living on fixed incomes who managed to purchase and pay off their homes during their working years. The only way I think such a proposal would be just is if the basis amount that folks paid on was capped at their original home purchase price with no further increase. That way an old widowed grandmother collecting Social Security and a small pension and who managed to buy and pay off a home that she and her husband paid $40,000.00 for it in Los Angeles in the 1970sand that is now worth $1,000,000.00 can remain in her neighborhood and pass it on to her descendants preserving the family wealth.
 
BEEN TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE THIS FOR AGES! 🤣🤣🤣
We lived in Mansfield TX for many years and we not only got charged for Johnson County, we also had to pay Tarrant County too.
And the moment you leave your driveway, you're paying tolls, fees, the kitchen sink.
All this crap about not having a state income tax is just a fancy bamboozle.

Back in the day you could count all the toll roads in Texas on one hand. Hardy Toll Road in Houston, Dallas North Tollway, a couple of toll bridges, and that was about it.

Now toll roads are everywhere there, and they're not cheap.
 
Back in the day you could count all the toll roads in Texas on one hand. Hardy Toll Road in Houston, Dallas North Tollway, a couple of toll bridges, and that was about it.

Now toll roads are everywhere there, and they're not cheap.
One of the big myths that Republicans like to sell us is that red states necessarily have lower taxes than blue states. The reality of the situation is much murkier.


1200x-1.png


Texas has no state income taxes, but it has some of the highest property taxes in the nation.

The idea that Texas is a low-tax haven is only true for big corporations who reap too many of the benefits.

Let's look at this.

Income tax. One of if not the highest in the nation.

Sales tax. Up there.

Gas tax. Ridiculously high.

Annual car taxes and "fees".
 
Let's look at this.

Income tax. One of if not the highest in the nation.

Sales tax. Up there.

Gas tax. Ridiculously high.

Annual car taxes and "fees".

Hmmmm...not enough. Let’s raise property taxes!
 
is a tax by a different color still a tax?
 
i researched the hell out of North Carolina when they gained their Republican Super Majority (years ago) and had a Republican Governor. Democrats were totally powerless. They couldn't stop anything.

So, the Republicans did the following...
  • Flattened the income tax rate (the richest saved gobs of $$$$ while the poorest paid a bit more).
  • Added sales tax to just about anything that didn't have sales tax (labor, concert tix, sewing machine services, movie tix, etc).
  • Took "part" of the sales tax $$$$ collected by richer counties (like the coastal counties and places like where Charlotte is) and shipped it to the poorer/rural counties (ironically where many of the Republican politicians were elected from). it was a dreaded socialist move.
  • Massively increased DMV fees
  • And did some weird thing about decreasing taxes/fees on yachts

It was brilliant. They accomplished the following...
  • Bought votes (by stealing the $$$$ from the richer counties and moving it to the rural counties).
  • Still collected about the same amount of tax $$$$ and fees from North Carolinians.
  • Looked like heros to the rural Republican voters.
  • Made it impossible to tell how much taxes/fees/sales tax that each North Carolinian was paying (who tracks sales tax expense from year to year?).
  • Then bragged that they had lowered everyone's tax burden (which was a lie/half truth and worked on people not paying attention).

It was sleazy as hell.
 
I have little doubt that much of the cause of California's housing crisis comes from wealthy landowners not wanting to loosen their chokehold on the limited supply of housing by allowing the promotion of more development.



As much as I love the work of Professor Milton Friedman, he was not exactly an advocate for the interests of those living on fixed incomes who managed to purchase and pay off their homes during their working years. The only way I think such a proposal would be just is if the basis amount that folks paid on was capped at their original home purchase price with no further increase. That way an old widowed grandmother collecting Social Security and a small pension and who managed to buy and pay off a home that she and her husband paid $40,000.00 for it in Los Angeles in the 1970sand that is now worth $1,000,000.00 can remain in her neighborhood and pass it on to her descendants preserving the family wealth.

I normally wouldn't be referencing Friedman in a positive light, but hey a broken clock is correct twice a day and I like to play to my audience on this subject. ;) And while I do think most of his policy ideas did not help the poor, he was an advocate of the negative income tax, which is a form of basic income.

And yes, I'm all for protecting the old widow who wants to live out her golden years in her home. She can avoid the tax burden through deferment. But these cases are pretty rare.
 
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Let's look at this.

Income tax. One of if not the highest in the nation.

Sales tax. Up there.

Gas tax. Ridiculously high.

Annual car taxes and "fees".
Add 'em all up, and...


...Texas is still more expensive.
 
i researched the hell out of North Carolina when they gained their Republican Super Majority (years ago) and had a Republican Governor. Democrats were totally powerless. They couldn't stop anything.

So, the Republicans did the following...

  • And did some weird thing about decreasing taxes/fees on yachts

Of course they would. 😂
 
Back in the day you could count all the toll roads in Texas on one hand. Hardy Toll Road in Houston, Dallas North Tollway, a couple of toll bridges, and that was about it.

Now toll roads are everywhere there, and they're not cheap.

Mansfield is roughly located at the intersection of U.S. 287 and Texas state road 360...that's the closest major freeway interchange, about three miles South of the old township itself.
360 is a main freeway traveling North-South and it divides Dallas and Fort Worth right down the middle of the two cities, pretty much.
It's been mostly unimproved or enhanced since it was first constructed in the 1970's and the part that connects to Mansfield starts about four miles South of Camp Wisdom Road.
It was always little more than two "service roads" built in anticipation of the day the actual 360 freeway gets extended, and it stayed that way until about three years ago when that part became a toll road.
Until recently Mansfield was just a little cow town (pop. 25000) known mostly for being the place where "Black Like Me" author John Howard Griffin got burned and hung in effigy by the local Klan in 1959.
In the last few years the population has more than doubled as developers built out the surrounding area with sprawling HOA bedroom communities.
The state "rewarded" all that growth by making the new portion of 360 into a toll road, but only the portion South of Interstate 20.

Of course once you get North of I-20, then the fun really starts because everything North of the I-20 is a parking lot sunrise to sundown, especially in the summer. (Six Flags traffic!)
It is not surprising for a journey from DFW Airport to Mansfield to take almost an hour, a distance of about twenty miles, the last seven of which will cost you $2.50, or $1.50 if you have a toll tag.
So it's safe to say that freeway traffic isn't any better than it is in Los Angeles.
But a lot of that is due to the fact that once freeways get built down there, that's it, they're pretty much the way they're going to stay unless they get turned into a toll road.
 
Doesn't the collection of tolls slow traffic?
Or how can you pay tolls on the fly?
 
Let's look at this.

Income tax. One of if not the highest in the nation.

Sales tax. Up there.

Gas tax. Ridiculously high.

Annual car taxes and "fees".

Car fees are absolutely out of control in California.
Then again, trying to breathe was absolutely out of control when I first moved here in the 80's, it's a whole lot easier now.
Gas taxes...again absolutely unreal how high they are, but I can see downtown from here, whereas it was tough to see more than two blocks in the old days.

Ah well, another shitty day in Paradise.
Right now it is surprisingly PLEASANT in North Texas, it's in the low 80's.
I am truly shocked it's that nice at the end of May down there because most years it would already be in the mid to high 90's and venturing toward 100.
 
If you are referring to our insane home prices, our problem with housing prices comes from a shortage of housing. The failure to increase the supply of housing, whether single-family residences, multi-unit apartments and everything in between to keep up with the demand of our growing population has naturally led to an increase in the cost. Now, if you mean that low property taxes means that people who already own homes are more easily able to afford keeping the homes they have managed to pay off without having to worry about their homes being foreclosed on at tax auctions, you may be right. But raising property taxes are the ultimate form of regressive tax because it makes it more difficult for the working class or those living on fixed income to own a home and build or maintain wealth. And if someone owns a rental property (single family, multi-family, multi-unit apartment, etc.), the increased property taxes would simply be passed on to the renters.
It doesn’t matter though, if the state is making itself a haven for millions of foreigners every year. Between illegals and the “high skilled” immigrants imported by the tech industry. The state went from 10 million in 1950 to 40 million in 2010. You simply cannot build enough housing for that growth. Regardless of policy
 
One of the big myths that Republicans like to sell us is that red states necessarily have lower taxes than blue states. The reality of the situation is much murkier


1200x-1.png


Texas has no state income taxes, but it has some of the highest property taxes in the nation.

The idea that Texas is a low-tax haven is only true for big corporations who reap too many of the benefits.
Red States do have lower taxes than blue States. Even your own data proves it.

Alaska is a red State and has zero State sales or income taxes. The only reason Alaska ranks #21 in property taxes is because a large section of Alaska also does not pay property taxes. So the reality is that Alaska should be somewhere between #10 and #15 in property taxes, for those who actually do pay property taxes.

My property taxes in the Matanuska-Susitna Borough, for example, is more along the lines with Michigan, which ranks #8, taxing at 1.62% of the property value. However, other boroughs in Alaska have lower property taxes. So if you were to exclude the unorganized boroughs in Alaska which do not have any property taxes and you only include the boroughs where property taxes exist, then Alaska falls somewhere in the 1.50% to 1.25% property tax range.
 
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