[W:53]Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Didn't a few of the 9/11 hijackers overstay their visas? I guess that doesn't harm people. The overstaying part, I mean. Carrying out terrorist acts and killing people kind of does though.

Lol. Ok, you're really grasping at straws. Overstaying a visa is not mass murder or an act of terrorism. Again, I am not defending illegal activity. I am simply saying the fear and rhetoric on this is completely out of hand, and that is causing certain American people to be a bigger danger to some of these "breeders" and "invaders" than they are to you.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

It's not how I feel. Its what is fact. Having secure borders is about safety of the American people. That you deny this doesn't change this fact.

I support a secure boarder, and get I find your posts off the wall. Illegally crossing is not a violent crime, nor is it hurting you, and that is the fact.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Letting those who have entered illegally or overstayed their 'temporary' visas remain here, be offered free use of all manner of government services and be granted a 'path to citizenship'. In other words, open border supporters make no distinction between legal and illegal immigrants - they just consider all immigrants (once here) to be of equal standing no matter how they got here.

Sorry, but you're not very clear. I think an open boarder would mean people are allowed to put in, stay, and get citizenship. It's kind of funny how it's just a political buzz word with no agreed definition, right?

Because that is how dysfunction America is on the issue.

We need real solutions, leadership, and meaningful discourse instead of fear, anger, and strawmen.

First of all, they aren't in equal standing to Americans. Not at all, but they are here, and we need to secure the boarder, and discuss what to do with them. We could send them back, no strings attached... open the boarders to let them leave, because they can't even leave without being detained, jailed, charged and fined, and their visa will be banned for rentry for years, so arguing they can go back, legally apply, and get in line is a lie. Trump's policies have led to people hiding, and living in shadows, and they don't feel comfortable leaving of their own will, nor do they trust ICE officers to manage their cases or children.

There are many other options our leaders could be discussing instead of leading people around with fear, anger, and misinformation.

Secondly, there are Americans who don't want a solution, and really don't care if they are gunned down at the boarder. Such people, who went violence and have no concern for treating these people with any decency, are the ones who deserve to be judged as angry bigots. That type of hate, anger, and violence is unnessary.

 

[Anthony60]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Lol. Ok, you're really grasping at straws. Overstaying a visa is not mass murder or an act of terrorism. Again, I am not defending illegal activity. I am simply saying the fear and rhetoric on this is completely out of hand, and that is causing certain American people to be a bigger danger to some of these "breeders" and "invaders" than they are to you.

Maybe it's out of hand. But, no doubt this is an exploitable path that has been used in the past to kill people here.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

I doubt that you would say the same if the border that they crossed was your front door's threshold or your yard's fence/boundary. You rightfully would feel that you have a right to decide who shares your resources - many simply feel the same about the public resources that they are forced to support (provide?) via taxation and/or share with 'needy' foreign nationals.

Every illegal immigrant who occupies a US job, ER bed, jail cell or classroom seat costs US society something that could otherwise have been used to improve the lot of our own citizens.

This is a lot of projection. I don't know how many times that I can say it, but I don't support illegal immigration or people just crossing the southern boarder as they please. We can secure out boarder, and I support that. We don't have to use violence, hate, or call these people breeders or invaders. I don't support Trump's dysfunctional leadership on this is issue, and America can find a solution without the insane and ugly leadership of Trump.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Maybe it's out of hand. But, no doubt this is an exploitable path that has been used in the past to kill people here.

Your post was out of hand. No question about it. I also question the honesty of your claim that the 911 terrorists were here illegally.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

I support a secure boarder, and get I find your posts off the wall. Illegally crossing is not a violent crime, nor is it hurting you, and that is the fact.

So because its not hurting me specifically and physically I can't be against illegal immigration? Pfft.

Do you know why people don't believe you when you say that you're for secure borders? Because you excuse and make excuses for illegal immigration. "It's not a violent crime" is just word play to ignore the fact that those that enter illegally are still committing a crime. And you know its a crime but are quite willing to ignore that crime.

And to say that it doesn't cause harm to people is just flat out ignoring the evidence that it does indeed harm people. It drives down wages for example. That may not be a harm that you are willing to acknowledge or a harm that you find acceptable....but it is still a harm. Our school system is overburdened and adding more kids into it via illegally entering the country is also causing harm to the students that are in the US legally and/or are citizens as it takes away resources from those kids. Again, that may not be a harm that you are willing to acknowledge or a harm that you find acceptable....but it is still a harm. Another harm that happens is that many that enter the US illegally do so by cooperating with drug runners bringing drugs into the country which causes harm directly to people and causes medical costs to go up, which harms millions of people. And yet again, that may not be a harm that you are willing to acknowledge or a harm that you find acceptable....but it is still a harm. So can it with the rhetoric of not causing harm because that is false.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Sorry, but you're not very clear. I think an open boarder would mean people are allowed to put in, stay, and get citizenship. It's kind of funny how it's just a political buzz word with no agreed definition, right?

Because that is how dysfunction America is on the issue.

We need real solutions, leadership, and meaningful discourse instead of fear, anger, and strawmen.

First of all, they aren't in equal standing to Americans. Not at all, but they are here, and we need to secure the boarder, and discuss what to do with them. We could send them back, no strings attached... open the boarders to let them leave, because they can't even leave without being detained, jailed, charged and fined, and their visa will be banned for rentry for years, so arguing they can go back, legally apply, and get in line is a lie. Trump's policies have led to people hiding, and living in shadows, and they don't feel comfortable leaving of their own will, nor do they trust ICE officers to manage their cases or children.

There are many other options our leaders could be discussing instead of leading people around with fear, anger, and misinformation.

Secondly, there are Americans who don't want a solution, and really don't care if they are gunned down at the boarder. Such people, who went violence and have no concern for treating these people with any decency, are the ones who deserve to be judged as angry bigots. That type of hate, anger, and violence is unnessary.

I was quite clear - it is you that injected the immigrants = US citizens nonsense. I stated that the open borders crew wants no distinction between legal and illegal immigrants (once they get into the US) not that immigrants (foreign nationals) are the same as US citizens.

 

[Lovebug]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Again, I don't support illegal immigration, but also don't support demonizing these people, which is exactly what Trump does. He calls them invaders and breeders. Invasion sounds like an act of war imo, and it's not necessary. We have treated these people horribly, separated families, lost custody of kids, call them names, the president condones use of violence towards them, etc.

It's out of hand.

This can be resolved, but that will involve people calming the hell down, and people also need to realize that Trump is the worst president in terms of handling this.

Invading, like forming caravans with the purpose of rushing the border of a sovereign nation. Invading, like sneaking across the border by any means necessary.
We have treated, and are treating, illegal (mostly) immigrants rather nicely. As an example, making most, if not all, signs in 2 languages just to accommodate, establishing sanctuary cities, affording them anchor status.
They, not us, have put families in harms way and necessitated loss of custody and separating families.
And no, Trump isn't " the worst president in terms of handling this." I hold all previous Presidents accountable, along with Congress, for passing the buck and looking the other way. Had they come up with a more sensible and clear immigration policy, we wouldn't have to blame Trump. We have been too calm for too long.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Your post was out of hand. No question about it. I also question the honesty of your claim that the 911 terrorists were here illegally.

Fraudulent documents are used to facilitate terrorism, smuggling, drug trafficking, immigration violations, and many other crimes. In fact, some of the most significant crimes and terrorist events of the past few decades, including the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, were made possible by the use of fake identification documents.

Fraudulent Documents

Context of '(July-August 2001): Some 9/11 Hijackers Obtain Fake IDs'

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

This is a lot of projection. I don't know how many times that I can say it, but I don't support illegal immigration or people just crossing the southern boarder as they please. We can secure out boarder, and I support that. We don't have to use violence, hate, or call these people breeders or invaders. I don't support Trump's dysfunctional leadership on this is issue, and America can find a solution without the insane and ugly leadership of Trump.

Congress is not going to do anything to change this mess - they enjoy a re-election rate of over 90% simply by keeping the current immigration mess as an 'issue'. I agree that Trump often talks like a jerk but he does want better border and interior enforcement of current immigration law - that, BTW, is his job.

 

[trixare4kids]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Sorry, but you're not very clear. I think an open boarder would mean people are allowed to put in, stay, and get citizenship. It's kind of funny how it's just a political buzz word with no agreed definition, right?

Because that is how dysfunction America is on the issue.

We need real solutions, leadership, and meaningful discourse instead of fear, anger, and strawmen.

First of all, they aren't in equal standing to Americans. Not at all, but they are here, and we need to secure the boarder, and discuss what to do with them. We could send them back, no strings attached... open the boarders to let them leave, because they can't even leave without being detained, jailed, charged and fined, and their visa will be banned for rentry for years, so arguing they can go back, legally apply, and get in line is a lie. Trump's policies have led to people hiding, and living in shadows, and they don't feel comfortable leaving of their own will, nor do they trust ICE officers to manage their cases or children.

There are many other options our leaders could be discussing instead of leading people around with fear, anger, and misinformation.

Secondly, there are Americans who don't want a solution, and really don't care if they are gunned down at the boarder. Such people, who went violence and have no concern for treating these people with any decency, are the ones who deserve to be judged as angry bigots. That type of hate, anger, and violence is unnessary.

Speaking of straw men, "anger and fear" are two of the left's most overused, straw man fallacies.
Let me make this simple for you. Law abiding Americans do want a solution. They want to continue to see strong borders and strictly enforced immigration law.
IMO, the wall is a bonus but not really necessary to achieve the above.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

I was quite clear - it is you that injected the immigrants = US citizens nonsense. I stated that the open borders crew wants no distinction between legal and illegal immigrants (once they get into the US) not that immigrants (foreign nationals) are the same as US citizens.

Who thinks there should be no difference between legal and illegal? There is an undeniable difference. First of all, they don't have a SSN, so it's really hard to keep track of them for so many purposes and it also impairs their ability to do a number of things. If anybody thinks there is not a differnce, they are denying reality. I also don't presume that is a popular political position in America.

Also, be careful of backtracking because you were insisting that I want open boarders

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Speaking of straw men, "anger and fear" are two of the left's most overused, straw man fallacies.
Let me make this simple for you. Law abiding Americans do want a solution. They want to continue to see strong borders and strictly enforced immigration law.
IMO, the wall is a bonus but not really necessary to achieve the above.

You're a hardcore Trumper. You are all about fear, fake news, and misinformation over real world solutions

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Your post was out of hand. No question about it. I also question the honesty of your claim that the 911 terrorists were here illegally.

I'm always curious, when people support illegal immigration, what state are area they live in. Do you live in a border state?

 

[mike2810]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Who thinks there should be no difference between legal and illegal? There is an undeniable difference. First of all, they don't have a SSN, so it's really hard to keep track of them for so many purposes and it also impairs their ability to do a number of things. If anybody thinks there is not a differnce, they are denying reality. I also don't presume that is a popular political position in America.

Also, be careful of backtracking because you were insisting that I want open boarders

You are forgetting the number of illegal aliens who are using stolen ssn.

"Nearly 40 million Social Security numbers have been stolen and used by illegal immigrants and others to get work, according to agency records obtained by an immigration reform group.
The Immigration Reform Law Institute said that from 2012 to 2016 there were “39 million instances where names and Social Security numbers on W-2 tax forms did not match the corresponding Social Security records."

https://www.google.com/search?sourc.......1..gws-wiz.....0..0j0i131j0i3.S0uY31Essw4

 

[Amelia]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Thank you for your response. How arduous do you envision this path to legalization would be and what about those who are not contributing members to their communities?

I agree employers should not hire illegal workers, but in such a situation, isn't the person who presents the fake documents breaking the law? In those cases, the person with the fake documents knows that they are fake, the person reviewing the documents can only “reasonably appear on their face to be genuine and to relate to the person presenting them.”

Lastly, what exactly should we do in these "home" countries?

Medium arduous. Not punitive. Not so steep that people won't thing there is any point in trying to get on the right side of the law. (And right now we have a lot of work to do to repair trust, because the word is out now that our current government lays in wait to deport people who are actually in the process of trying to get on the right side of the law. Using their attempts to make things right as a way to locate them so they can deport them.) The people who aren't contributing? If they've been here long enough they get a chance to start legally contributing. If they abuse the chance, then send them away. If they're old or disabled then we show mercy. The problem isn't that big. And uprooting the majority of the people who are here illegally would create much more economic damage than it would solve.

"Appear on their face"? Really? All employers have to do is eyeball the documents and if the documents look authentic the employer has no more responsibility? Gee, maybe someday someone will invent an electronic system where we can verify people's work eligibility. Just a thought.

As to their "home" countries, first do no harm. We won't be able to fix their home countries but we can stop doing things which will further destabilize the countries. Our smart government people or smart business people can surely come up with ideas to nudge them in a better direction, but "first do no harm".

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Invading, like forming caravans with the purpose of rushing the border of a sovereign nation. Invading, like sneaking across the border by any means necessary.
We have treated, and are treating, illegal (mostly) immigrants rather nicely. As an example, making most, if not all, signs in 2 languages just to accommodate, establishing sanctuary cities, affording them anchor status.
They, not us, have put families in harms way and necessitated loss of custody and separating families.
And no, Trump isn't " the worst president in terms of handling this." I hold all previous Presidents accountable, along with Congress, for passing the buck and looking the other way. Had they come up with a more sensible and clear immigration policy, we wouldn't have to blame Trump. We have been too calm for too long.

Trump is a horrible leader and it's sad you have bought into it. Trump is separating families at boarder camps, and losing track of their children, creating orphans. They didn't do that to themselves, Trump's policies are doing it, and you support those policies.

Also bi lingual signs are not just about illegal immigrants. Having a child in America, or an anchor baby, is not a matter of treating them well either, but a matter of constitutional law, which Trump wants changed.

As for the caravans, you have no idea who plans on rushing the border and who wants to apply for asylum at the boarder, which is not illegal.

Negative stereotypes and attitudes are way too common. Yes, America has been good to illegals, better than where they came from, which is why they came. But at some point, you need to take responsibility for yourself, and the policies you support and defend. Yes, they bare much responsibility for coming illegally, and I am not excusing them either. However, you need to understand they would prefer being legal than not, and that's what the ones at the boarder now would prefer. Instead you assume they come with criminal intentions, and to invade, and I know about the stupid conspiracies that there are terrorists hiding in the caravans too. Arab muslims.

It's just out of hand. It's fear based demonization.

They want to work in America. They want to be legal. They aren't criminal invaders wanting to harm America. And we don't have to take them all, or any at all. We have a legal system, and a legal boarder, but the options Trump presents us with are nothing but appalling and so is his rhetoric

 

[trixare4kids]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

You're a hardcore Trumper. You are all about fear, fake news, and misinformation over real world solutions

Getting back to your overuse of straw man fallacies... you might want to lay off the ad hominems.

:mrgreen:

 

[trixare4kids]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Trump is a horrible leader and it's sad you have bought into it. Trump is separating families at boarder camps, and losing track of their children, creating orphans. They didn't do that to themselves, Trump's policies are doing it, and you support those policies.

Your response is meant for someone else above so I am snipping that part of your response to make my point.

You most certainly have the right to hate Trump, call him names, or whatever it is that you enjoy doing, but one of the most wonderful things about being an American is our freedom to see and say what we wish, so good for you.

However,...did it ever occur to you that those who did not vote for Hillary or Bernie wouldn't allow themselves to buy into what they were selling? Don't get me started on their :bs.
Did it ever occur to you that Trump was elected not in spite of his tough immigration stance but BECAUSE of it?
Oh the horrors! A president who actually tries to keep his campaign promises to his voters....

 

[Anthony60]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Your post was out of hand. No question about it. I also question the honesty of your claim that the 911 terrorists were here illegally.

No, my post was not out of hand. I question your ability to look things up, information that is readily available, if you question my honesty. It is easily verifiably. Why wouldn't you check first, before making an irresponsible statement about my honesty?

You're very fast and loose with the accusations, calls into question your accuracy.

 

[trixare4kids]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

I'm always curious, when people support illegal immigration, what state are area they live in. Do you live in a border state?

I live in a border state as you do, and most everything she has countered is wrong... no surprise there.

 

[trixare4kids]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

No, my post was not out of hand. I question your ability to look things up, information that is readily available, if you question my honesty. It is easily verifiably. Why wouldn't you check first, before making an irresponsible statement about my honesty?

You're very fast and loose with the accusations, calls into question your accuracy.

You weren't wrong.
It's telling that she won't apologize for calling you dishonest though...

 

[jonny5]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...went-jail-protect-him/?utm_term=.4f2399658bdc

Samuel Oliver-Bruno, an undocumented immigrant who took refuge in the basement of a North Carolina church for 11 months, and whose fellow congregants were jailed after trying to block immigration authorities from arresting him, has been deported, his church said Thursday night.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement confirmed he had been deported to Mexico around 9 p.m. Thursday in statements to local news media.
========================================
A truly heart warming story for the holiday season:

'Minutes after Oliver-Bruno went inside for his scheduled appointment, which was part of the process for seeking a deportation reprieve, ICE officers tackled him and his 19-year-old son to the ground. The son was later charged with assaulting a government official while trying to prevent authorities from arresting his father.'

Its not heartwarming at all, but it certainly is justice, which after all, is the point of laws.

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

I support a secure boarder,https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/271072/ice-busts-illegal-alien-wanted-murder-mexico-media-daniel-greenfield and get I find your posts off the wall. Illegally crossing is not a violent crime, nor is it hurting you, and that is the fact.

Some of the Aliens that cross are in fact criminals feeling justice in Mexico or their native country. ICE recently arrest an illegal alien that was wanted for a murder in Mexico.

My office manager is a US citizen daughter of legal immigrants from Mexico. Her 13 year old daughter was raped by an illegal immigrant , their landscaper. I raped her knocked her unconscious and dumped her in her front yard. He fled back to Mexico to avoid prosecution in the United States. He has not been apprehended yet. My offices manager's daughter has recovered from her physical injuries but she still sleeps in her parents room almost two years later.

I realize the majority of illegal aliens are not bad people and just want to better their lives. I am not opposed to a bigger J Visa program to bring in migrant workers legally. I would prefer that my tax dollars go to support or educate the poor and sick US citizens and not illegal aliens. We have plenty of poor people we don't need to import more. I do think we need to have the SC look at the wording of the 14th amendment because its clear that the congress that passed it in 1868 did not intend it to grant citizenship to the child, born on US soil, of 2 illegal immigrants. The 14t A. has never granted citizenship to the majority of Native Americans its crazy to think it grants citizenship to illegal aliens.
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