[W:53]Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

[Amelia]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Oh yes, the plan that the Freedom Caucus prodded Trump into nuking so spectacularly also would have cut lottery immigration by half.

But having true compromise legislation would have seriously undercut the Freedom Caucus sloganeering, so we couldn't have that. Instead we got amped up xenophobia.

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Rightwingers can have their wall if they'll give a path to legalization for people who are longtime contributing members to their communities.

Most of the Republican party wanted to trade DACA for a wall but the Democrats refused to give them the few votes they needed to pass it.

Ripping parents out of their communities will add U.S. citizen children to our welfare roles and will provide recruits for these gangs that Trump is using to gin up fears.

Or they could take their families home with them.

And we need to be realistic about the home conditions which are compelling people to take the risk to come here. Trump is trying to make things more wretched in those countries while making it harder for people from those countries to come here legally. We need to get momentum the other way -- help make those countries safer with more opportunities, while making it easier for more to come here legally to work.

America isn't unbreakable . We don't want the conditions in our country to change to be like their country. We are straining to pay for our poor and sick already we don't need to pay for the poor or sick from other countries.

And of course address the system which apparently allows so many employers to hire worker with fake documents.

I agree we need to be harder on employers that hire undocumented workers and dry up jobs for undocumented workers. We also need to increase the penalty for using fake documents.

Legislators need to come to a table with an interest in compromise. Trump was set to accept a bipartisan plan from the Senate which would have give him billions for the wall and taken care of the DACA kids, when members of the Freedom Caucus rushed to the table to stop him from doing that and that was all it took to start Trump on the ****hole diatribe which shut down his chances to get his wall. He needs to reopen that dialogue.

and the DEmocrats did not give him the FEW votes he needed to get the wall and give DACA's a path to citizenship. The Democrats screwed DACA because they don't want a wall and don't want a Trump win. So don't blame it all on the Republicans far more Democrats refused the deal to give DACA's a path to citizenship than Republicans did.

 

[Amelia]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

....



and the DEmocrats did not give him the FEW votes he needed to get the wall and give DACA's a path to citizenship. The Democrats screwed DACA because they don't want a wall and don't want a Trump win. So don't blame it all on the Republicans far more Democrats refused the deal to give DACA's a path to citizenship than Republicans did.

Democrats had signed onto the compromise. The Freedom Caucus blew it up.

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

That is not a very simple solution.

We have made that option so difficult that it doesn't come across as a solution at all.


But Trump and Trumpsters aren't really interested in solutions. They're working overtime to turn this manageable problem into a catastrophe. Presenting bumper sticker slogans as strategy while calling jingoism great again.

What ? Going home? These people have chosen to violate our laws and have entered our home without an invitation. They need to go back to their home and apply through the normal process. We naturalize about 800,000 a year and we give out about 1,000,000 green cards a year and we issue about 160,000 temporary worker visa a year. Illegal aliens don't need to be rewarded for breaking the law and muscling their way to the front of the line.

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Democrats had signed onto the compromise. The Freedom Caucus blew it up.

It only takes half of the house to pass a bill. The freedom caucus cannot stop a bipartisan bill they only have about 3 dozen freedom caucus members.

 

[Amelia]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

It only takes half of the house to pass a bill. The freedom caucus cannot stop a bipartisan bill they only have about 3 dozen freedom caucus members.

Trump was negotiating with senators. The senators had come up with a plan which would fund the wall and fix DACA, and cut in half the number of people allowed in by lottery.

Trump was saying it sounded good. He was beaming at the thought of making this deal. He love the idea of being the guy who could do the bipartisan things with Democrats.

Then the Freedom Caucus members made sure to make it to the meeting with Trump and the senators and they submarined it. Trump went on the infamous anti-immigrant ****hole rant and the bipartisan deal was dead.

Then there were two or three possible deals from the House, but the House Republicans were so shellshocked that they didn't even want to hold a vote if they weren't absolutely sure they could get a bill that Trump would sign. Trump had them afraid that he would support their primary opponents if they signed on to a bill that he said he liked one day but the next day he said he didn't like it. And Trump never let them be sure that any of their bills were safe. After the Freedom Caucus blew up the bipartisan plan, Trump was all over the place, so the House just gave up the effort.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

The OP linked article plays to emotions. Samuel Oliver-Bruno entered the US illegally twice. The church members broke the law when interfering with ICE carrying out a legal action.

It is sad when families are broken apart. What gets lost by many is the first illegal action by Samuel started his problems and illegal actions can /do have consequences. The actions of the church members also have consequences.

The illegal immigration issue has been around for many years. Some Presidents have been hard on illegals (Eisenhower) and some not so much. Immigrants who come in legally through the system should be welcomed. Those playing the asylum game and or enter illegally should go to the back of the list for legal entry into this country.

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Trump was negotiating with senators. The senators had come up with a plan which would fund the wall and fix DACA, and cut in half the number of people allowed in by lottery.

Trump was saying it sounded good. He was beaming at the thought of making this deal. He love the idea of being the guy who could do the bipartisan things with Democrats.

Then the Freedom Caucus members made sure to make it to the meeting with Trump and the senators and they submarined it. Trump went on the infamous anti-immigrant ****hole rant and the bipartisan deal was dead.

Then there were two or three possible deals from the House, but the House Republicans were so shellshocked that they didn't even want to hold a vote if they weren't absolutely sure they could get a bill that Trump would sign. Trump had them afraid that he would support their primary opponents if they signed on to a bill that he said he liked one day but the next day he said he didn't like it. And Trump never let them be sure that any of their bills were safe. After the Freedom Caucus blew up the bipartisan plan, Trump was all over the place, so the House just gave up the effort.

And the Democrats didn't want to give up chain migration an lottery citizenship to get DACA.

The Democrats sold out DACA because they view immigration to the US as a potential voter gain for them. And they view a DACA controversy as good for them. If I was a DACA person I'd be ticked at the Democrats not the Republicans.

 

[Amelia]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

And the Democrats didn't want to give up chain migration an lottery citizenship to get DACA.

The Democrats sold out DACA because they view immigration to the US as a potential voter gain for them. And they view a DACA controversy as good for them. If I was a DACA person I'd be ticked at the Democrats not the Republicans.

Democrats were willing to cut the lottery in half. That's a big change.

That's what's called compromise.

It was on track to happen. The DACA fix was going to happen. Trump was going to get his wall and the credit he wanted.

Then the Freedom Caucus derailed it.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

We've spent years trying to reassure people that it was safe to do the things which help make America safe -- such as send your kids to school, get treated for infectious disease, report dangerous criminals, seek legal remedies when you find yourself on the wrong side of the law -- and now the Trump administration has undone all that.

More American citizen kids are going to end up on welfare rolls for lack of education and lack of parents to support and guide them, more disease will incubate because people are afraid to go to a hospital, more crime will incubate because witnesses will be too afraid to have contact with police, and people who really want to make things right will stay in hiding knowing that even trying to fill out the paperwork to get legal puts them on the radar of Trump's stormtroopers.

The Holocaust didn't happen overnight in Hitler's Germany. They sunk to that level gradually. We would be mistaken to say "it couldn't happen here," mistaken to think that the degradation and dehumanization we are witnessing will reach some tolerable bottom and settle there and not go lower.

The political language is appalling. Trump calls them invaders and breeders. Nobody is talking about the real issue, which is that these people have no pathway to citizenship or becoming legal. You can't just approach the southern boarder and peacefully "self deport," because you will be apprehended by ICE, charged, and imprisoned.

The only choice they have is to live in hiding.

As for people wanting to legally approach the boarder and apply for asylum, they will be gassed and treated like criminals.

A lot of Americans need to look in the mirror, because they really aren't so innocent when it comes to what they are doing and willing to do.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Part of making sure America is safe is to punish those that commit crimes. Entering the US illegally is a crime. Doing it multiple times like Mr. Bruno did is a felony.

He didn't commit a violent crime against an American, so stop trying to equate illegal boarder crossing or overstaying visas with violence or a threat to American safety

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

My memory is not as good as it used to be. Would you please quote back to me where Trump called some Neo Nazis very fine people.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

*flick* here's a tear for ya.

Some of us who live in the real world are concerned about the affects of allowing millions of illegals into our country such as the suppression of wages, over burdening local, state and federal programs meant to help our poor and disabled and the influx of drugs, crime and disease that inevitably follows immigrants from ass backwards, poverty stricken countries.


And before you go on another of your tear jerk, "oh you must be racist against brown people" gambit, many of us have zero problems with brown people coming from India or Pakistan because,...like,...they are typically educated, have low crime rates and assimilate into American culture.


Good grief, the crap I hear from whiny liberals who don't have an ounce of logic in those tiny nickel heads just floors me.

First of all, you need to understand that most Americans are not for illegal immigration, so you can just stop right there. People like you need to recognize that the immigration system is broken, and there is no pathway for many here and wanting to legally enter, to even become legal. If you support legal immigration, then let them do the right thing instead of calling them invaders, gassing them at the boarder, separating families, etc.

People like you often present this conversation and crisis in such a dishonest way, that we can only assume your real motive is to stop, slow down, and/or prevent all immigration from the southern boarder.

The system needs fixed. Nobody wants to argue with you that legal immigration is a wonderful thing

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

There is a very very simple solution here tell them if they want to as you say "make things right" they need to go back home. There they can apply for legal residency in the United States and wait in line like everyone else.

They can't just go back. They will get apprehended by ICE, charged, and jailed, and common punishment is to banned from reentry for years. I think it's minimum 10 years.

 

[washunut]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Perhaps you should listen to your own clip. Trump says Neo Nazis are bad but that there were others on the right and the left who were fine people. I know folks like to conflate to two. Seems like people lie on both sides as well.

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

They can't just go back. They will get apprehended by ICE, charged, and jailed, and common punishment is to banned from reentry for years. I think it's minimum 10 years.

Oh no....they have to follow our laws...that is so sad. They snuck in maybe they should sneak back out. Perhaps they should have though about the consequences before they broke our laws. If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Perhaps you should listen to your own clip. Trump says Neo Nazis are bad but that there were others on the right and the left who were fine people. I know folks like to conflate to two. Seems like people lie on both sides as well.

Except, he is talking about a bunch of neo nazi's marching, and 'some are good people'.

 

[washunut]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Except, he is talking about a bunch of neo nazi's marching, and 'some are good people'.

Were ALL the people marching Neo Nazis? Were all the people who rallied against them antifa???

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Democrats were willing to cut the lottery in half. That's a big change.

That's what's called compromise.

It was on track to happen. The DACA fix was going to happen. Trump was going to get his wall and the credit he wanted.

Then the Freedom Caucus derailed it.

The Democrats sold DACA out so they could give lottery to folks and they didn't budge on chain migration. That isn't a compromise. Trump was willing to give 1.8 million people a path to citizenship.
That wasn't a real compromise.


Washington Post

President Trump is proposing a path to citizenship for an estimated 1.8 million young undocumented immigrants in exchange for hard-line steps to increase border security and curb legal immigration, a trade-off swiftly opposed by key Democrats

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Were ALL the people marching Neo Nazis? Were all the people who rallied against them antifa???

All the alt-right have much in similarity with the Neo Nazi's. After all, they are the ones marching with Guns around black churches and synagogues, chanting Neo-Nazi slogans.

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Except, he is talking about a bunch of neo nazi's marching, and 'some are good people'.

No he wasn't he was talking about the people that objected to removal of Confederate Statues not Neo Nazis. He has condemned Neo Nazis and KKK and White Supremacist multiple times. You are just twisting and lying about what he said because it suits your partisan politics. You aren't fooling anyone though.

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

No he wasn't he was talking about the people that objected to removal of Confederate Statues not Neo Nazis. He has condemned Neo Nazis and KKK and White Supremacist multiple times. You are just twisting and lying about what he said because it suits your partisan politics. You aren't fooling anyone though.

If you go to a white supremacist march where Nazi flags are being displayed, by definition, you are a neo-nazi.

 

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

If you go to a white supremacist march where Nazi flags are being displayed, by definition, you are a neo-nazi.

So if you go to a anti Trump march and ANTIFA shows up are you ANTIFA by definition?

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

So if you go to a anti Trump march and ANTIFA shows up are you ANTIFA by definition?

No, but the march was supposed to be the alt-right, unite the right, and was quite obviously a white supremacist movement from the very start. Antifa are basically people there to provoke violence , no matter what. White supremacists are white supremacists are white supremacists.

You may continue to defend the neo-nazi's if you like.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

He didn't commit a violent crime against an American, so stop trying to equate illegal boarder crossing or overstaying visas with violence or a threat to American safety

Not all crimes are violent. But they are crimes none the less. And not all forms of safety is about physical safety. Using fraudulent government papers for example is a felony charge regardless if you're a citizen, here legally or illegally. And he was found guilty of it.