[W:53]Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

[SLC]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

No, but the march was supposed to be the alt-right, unite the right, and was quite obviously a white supremacist movement from the very start. Antifa are basically people there to provoke violence , no matter what. White supremacists are white supremacists are white supremacists.

You may continue to defend the neo-nazi's if you like.

RAMOS [video]https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=you+tube+and+some+are+good+people+trump&view=detail&mid=FAB82C31068A96C523F8FAB82C31068A96C523F8&FORM=VIRE[/video]He specifically condemns Neo Nazis the White Supremacists and he SPECFICALLY said some of the people were peacefully protesting the removal of Robert E Lee's statue it was that group that had some very fine people. He made it VERY clear he was not talking about Neo Nazis and White Supremacies

Your lying about it isn't going to fool anyone.

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

RAMOS [video]https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=you+tube+and+some+are+good+people+trump&view=detail&mid=FAB82C31068A96C523F8FAB82C31068A96C523F8&FORM=VIRE[/video]He specifically condemns Neo Nazis the White Supremacists and he SPECFICALLY said some of the people were peacefully protesting the removal of Robert E Lee's statue it was that group that had some very fine people. He made it VERY clear he was not talking about Neo Nazis and White Supremacies

Your lying about it isn't going to fool anyone.

It's not lying.. and your defending the white supremists who marched in Charlottesville is noted.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Moderator's Warning:

This thread is not about Trump or Charlottesville. It's about an illegal alien that got deported. Stick to the topic or get booted. So if you go to a anti Trump march and ANTIFA shows up are you ANTIFA by definition? No, but the march was supposed to be the alt-right, unite the right, and was quite obviously a white supremacist movement from the very start. Antifa are basically people there to provoke violence , no matter what. White supremacists are white supremacists are white supremacists. You may continue to defend the neo-nazi's if you like.

 

[Amelia]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

The Democrats sold DACA out so they could give lottery to folks and they didn't budge on chain migration. That isn't a compromise. Trump was willing to give 1.8 million people a path to citizenship.
That wasn't a real compromise.


Washington Post

What the Democrats were on board with was compromise. Just because you and the Freedom Caucus didn't like it, didn't make it not a compromise. Republicans and Democrats AND Trump were all on board with it.

Then the Freedom Caucus sunk it, and set Trump off on a xenophobic diatribe which killed the process altogether.

Then when Republicans tried to revive some kind of bill, Trump's wishy-washiness threw the damp rag on it.

And without a win in his pocket, all Trump had was going out onto the campaign trail to dogwhistle for all it was worth to try to fire up the portion of the base whom the Freedom Caucus represented.


For the last time in this dead horse beating session ....
A compromise plan was come up with. One which both Democrats and Republicans .... AND TRUMP ... could claim let them stand on principles. But the most obstructionist remnant of the obstructionist GOP that Obama had to face decided that they didn't have to compromise and they killed it.


It was in the works and the Freedom Caucus ran as fast as they could to the White House to stop it from happening. And then the Freedom Caucus and the DACA kids and all the rest of us had to pay the price for the Freedom Caucus destroying the only viable plan that anyone put out there and pushing Trump so far off balance on the subject that he couldn't get back up.



And that's where we are now. With one big exception. The Freedom Caucus has been put in their place by the nation and now Democrats have the House.

So now we will see if something good can happen.

.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Rightwingers can have their wall if they'll give a path to legalization for people who are longtime contributing members to their communities.

Ripping parents out of their communities will add U.S. citizen children to our welfare roles and will provide recruits for these gangs that Trump is using to gin up fears.

And we need to be realistic about the home conditions which are compelling people to take the risk to come here. Trump is trying to make things more wretched in those countries while making it harder for people from those countries to come here legally. We need to get momentum the other way -- help make those countries safer with more opportunities, while making it easier for more to come here legally to work.

And of course address the system which apparently allows so many employers to hire worker with fake documents.



Legislators need to come to a table with an interest in compromise. Trump was set to accept a bipartisan plan from the Senate which would have give him billions for the wall and taken care of the DACA kids, when members of the Freedom Caucus rushed to the table to stop him from doing that and that was all it took to start Trump on the ****hole diatribe which shut down his chances to get his wall. He needs to reopen that dialogue.

Thank you for your response. How arduous do you envision this path to legalization would be and what about those who are not contributing members to their communities?

I agree employers should not hire illegal workers, but in such a situation, isn't the person who presents the fake documents breaking the law? In those cases, the person with the fake documents knows that they are fake, the person reviewing the documents can only “reasonably appear on their face to be genuine and to relate to the person presenting them.”

Lastly, what exactly should we do in these "home" countries?

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Not all crimes are violent. But they are crimes none the less. And not all forms of safety is about physical safety. Using fraudulent government papers for example is a felony charge regardless if you're a citizen, here legally or illegally. And he was found guilty of it.

It's not a matter of public safety.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Oh no....they have to follow our laws...that is so sad. They snuck in maybe they should sneak back out. Perhaps they should have though about the consequences before they broke our laws. If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

Some were brought as kids. Others came years ago, long before Trump, ICE, and the current system, so it's really dishonest to act like they knew how the US would treat them

 

[cabse5]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...went-jail-protect-him/?utm_term=.4f2399658bdc

Samuel Oliver-Bruno, an undocumented immigrant who took refuge in the basement of a North Carolina church for 11 months, and whose fellow congregants were jailed after trying to block immigration authorities from arresting him, has been deported, his church said Thursday night.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement confirmed he had been deported to Mexico around 9 p.m. Thursday in statements to local news media.
========================================
A truly heart warming story for the holiday season:

'Minutes after Oliver-Bruno went inside for his scheduled appointment, which was part of the process for seeking a deportation reprieve, ICE officers tackled him and his 19-year-old son to the ground. The son was later charged with assaulting a government official while trying to prevent authorities from arresting his father.'

Yeah. I know all about the 'Christian' churches who have larger attendances to denounce Trump than to preach the gospel. I live across the street from one "Christian' church.

 

[Lovebug]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Godwin and emotional appeal rolled into one? :doh

Way to double down with deflection from the facts of this incident via condemnation of Immigration officials doing their jobs. :roll:

That might just be the gist of it, members of that very congregation reacting emotionally, making themselves feel better but pretending they are doing God's work. I remember reading about render to Cesar what's Cesar.
Hey, we weren't there, we don't know their reasoning. My issue is more with the illegal guy who was selfish enough to have others punished on his behalf. But again, we weren't there.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

It's not a matter of public safety.

Perhaps not for you. For millions of Americans, it is.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

The political language is appalling. Trump calls them invaders and breeders. Nobody is talking about the real issue, which is that these people have no pathway to citizenship or becoming legal. You can't just approach the southern boarder and peacefully "self deport," because you will be apprehended by ICE, charged, and imprisoned.

The only choice they have is to live in hiding.

As for people wanting to legally approach the boarder and apply for asylum, they will be gassed and treated like criminals.

A lot of Americans need to look in the mirror, because they really aren't so innocent when it comes to what they are doing and willing to do.

You brought up your view of the " real issue'. I disagree, the "real issue" is people entering the US illegally and staying. The "real issue" is those who entered legally and then over staying their visa.

Your "real issue" ignores the fact they came here illegally. Do we need to improve our immigration system, of course. Just giving in and granting citizenship to those who did not follow our laws is just not right to those who did.

 

[Lovebug]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

The political language is appalling. Trump calls them invaders and breeders. Nobody is talking about the real issue, which is that these people have no pathway to citizenship or becoming legal. You can't just approach the southern boarder and peacefully "self deport," because you will be apprehended by ICE, charged, and imprisoned.

When someone crosses the border illegally, they are illegal and perhaps invaders of a sovereign nation. Not undocumented, and of course not breeders. I agree, we must adhere to facts and stop the unnecessary name calling.

The only choice they have is to live in hiding.

You are forgetting sanctuary states and cities.

As for people wanting to legally approach the boarder and apply for asylum, they will be gassed and treated like criminals.

Actually, they were "gassed" for attacking BBA and forcing themselves across.

A lot of Americans need to look in the mirror, because they really aren't so innocent when it comes to what they are doing and willing to do.

True, and yet we don't need to look the other way when someone breaks the law, citizens or not. Laws have been established for a reason, ideally helping us to live with each other without interfering with another's rights and privileges.
So when you ask us to look in the mirror, that means that those who are crossing our border illegally, must do so as well. We can't make exceptions.
As for

have no pathway to citizenship or becoming legal

, that simply isn't true. We do have a pathway, which many have taken. True, that way may not be fast or efficient enough, but it is a path nevertheless. It needs to be improved, not ignored.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

He didn't commit a violent crime against an American, so stop trying to equate illegal boarder crossing or overstaying visas with violence or a threat to American safety

Stop trying to pretend that open borders is a policy that would work. There are many millions, and probably billions, of folks on the planet that would likely benefit (at least within a generation) from moving to the US from wherever they now reside. Which of them should be allowed to come/stay here cannot be left to random chance or simply their own personal choice.

 

[Anthony60]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Oh, no! But why didn't they ignore the law for this guy? He was in a church! You can't be deported if you hid in a church! Oh, that's not in the law?

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Perhaps not for you. For millions of Americans, it is.

Its not for anybody. Illegally crossing the boarder or overstaying a visa is not physically harming people, nor is it a public safety concern. This is propterious. I mean, seriously. This kind of dishonesty highlights why America is way too dysfunctional to reasonably solve the issue. Forget even reasonably discussing the issue at this point.

America needs to pull it's ass out of its ****ing head, because this issue can be resolved, and it can be resolved peacefully.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

You brought up your view of the " real issue'. I disagree, the "real issue" is people entering the US illegally and staying. The "real issue" is those who entered legally and then over staying their visa.

Your "real issue" ignores the fact they came here illegally. Do we need to improve our immigration system, of course. Just giving in and granting citizenship to those who did not follow our laws is just not right to those who did.

Actually a lot of people enter legally and overstay their visa, becoming illegal. I personally know two girls from the former Soviet Union in that situation, and there is a large underground community if such people from Europe.

People coming from the southern boarder get all the focus and attention. The only thing unique about them, is that they can illegally cross the boarder, and that is simply a matter of geography.

The last time I heard, statistically, there are far more people here illegally of European orgin than Latin. That's because it's getting very hard to cross the boarder. Whereas it is very easy to get a Visa, enter legally, and then stay.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Its not for anybody. Illegally crossing the boarder or overstaying a visa is not physically harming people, nor is it a public safety concern. This is propterious. I mean, seriously. This kind of dishonesty highlights why America is way too dysfunctional to reasonably solve the issue. Forget even reasonably discussing the issue at this point.

America needs to pull it's ass out of its ****ing head, because this issue can be resolved, and it can be resolved peacefully.

If that were true then we would not be discussing illegal immigration in this country.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

When someone crosses the border illegally, they are illegal and perhaps invaders of a sovereign nation. Not undocumented, and of course not breeders. I agree, we must adhere to facts and stop the unnecessary name calling.


You are forgetting sanctuary states and cities.


Actually, they were "gassed" for attacking BBA and forcing themselves across.



True, and yet we don't need to look the other way when someone breaks the law, citizens or not. Laws have been established for a reason, ideally helping us to live with each other without interfering with another's rights and privileges.
So when you ask us to look in the mirror, that means that those who are crossing our border illegally, must do so as well. We can't make exceptions.
As for , that simply isn't true. We do have a pathway, which many have taken. True, that way may not be fast or efficient enough, but it is a path nevertheless. It needs to be improved, not ignored.

Again, I don't support illegal immigration, but also don't support demonizing these people, which is exactly what Trump does. He calls them invaders and breeders. Invasion sounds like an act of war imo, and it's not necessary. We have treated these people horribly, separated families, lost custody of kids, call them names, the president condones use of violence towards them, etc.

It's out of hand.

This can be resolved, but that will involve people calming the hell down, and people also need to realize that Trump is the worst president in terms of handling this.

 

[Anthony60]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Its not for anybody. Illegally crossing the boarder or overstaying a visa is not physically harming people, nor is it a public safety concern. This is propterious. I mean, seriously. This kind of dishonesty highlights why America is way too dysfunctional to reasonably solve the issue. Forget even reasonably discussing the issue at this point.

America needs to pull it's ass out of its ****ing head, because this issue can be resolved, and it can be resolved peacefully.

Didn't a few of the 9/11 hijackers overstay their visas? I guess that doesn't harm people. The overstaying part, I mean. Carrying out terrorist acts and killing people kind of does though.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

If that were true then we would not be discussing illegal immigration in this country.

If that's how you feel, you might as well start preparing for dooms day if you're not doing it already

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Its not for anybody. Illegally crossing the boarder or overstaying a visa is not physically harming people, nor is it a public safety concern. This is propterious. I mean, seriously. This kind of dishonesty highlights why America is way too dysfunctional to reasonably solve the issue. Forget even reasonably discussing the issue at this point.

America needs to pull it's ass out of its ****ing head, because this issue can be resolved, and it can be resolved peacefully.

I doubt that you would say the same if the border that they crossed was your front door's threshold or your yard's fence/boundary. You rightfully would feel that you have a right to decide who shares your resources - many simply feel the same about the public resources that they are forced to support (provide?) via taxation and/or share with 'needy' foreign nationals.

Every illegal immigrant who occupies a US job, ER bed, jail cell or classroom seat costs US society something that could otherwise have been used to improve the lot of our own citizens.

 

[SheWolf]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Stop trying to pretend that open borders is a policy that would work. There are many millions, and probably billions, of folks on the planet that would likely benefit (at least within a generation) from moving to the US from wherever they now reside. Which of them should be allowed to come/stay here cannot be left to random chance or simply their own personal choice.

What is an open boarder policy?

Because I have said over and over in this thread that I don't support illegal immirgation, but I think there is a massive problem with rhetoric, language, over estimating the threat and reality of what is happening, and overall, misinformation on this subject.

This situation can be resolved with leadership, honesty, and a change in national political discourse. Trump is not honest nor a leader, so we have people crapping over open boaders. That's not a solution, and not something I hear actual Americans supporting.

Please, seriously, tell me, what do you think open boarder policy means?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

What is an open boarder policy?

Because I have said over and over in this thread that I don't support illegal immirgation, but I think there is a massive problem with rhetoric, language, over estimating the threat and reality of what is happening, and overall, misinformation on this subject.

This situation can be resolved with leadership, honesty, and a change in national political discourse. Trump is not honest nor a leader, so we have people crapping over open boaders. That's not a solution, and not something I hear actual Americans supporting.

Please, seriously, tell me, what do you think open boarder policy means?

Letting those who have entered illegally or overstayed their 'temporary' visas remain here, be offered free use of all manner of government services and be granted a 'path to citizenship'. In other words, open border supporters make no distinction between legal and illegal immigrants - they just consider all immigrants (once here) to be of equal standing no matter how they got here.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

If that's how you feel, you might as well start preparing for dooms day if you're not doing it already

It's not how I feel. Its what is fact. Having secure borders is about safety of the American people. That you deny this doesn't change this fact.

 

[mike2810]

Re: Feds deport undocumented immigrant whose church supporters went to jail to protect him

Actually a lot of people enter legally and overstay their visa, becoming illegal. I personally know two girls from the former Soviet Union in that situation, and there is a large underground community if such people from Europe.

People coming from the southern boarder get all the focus and attention. The only thing unique about them, is that they can illegally cross the boarder, and that is simply a matter of geography.

The last time I heard, statistically, there are far more people here illegally of European orgin than Latin. That's because it's getting very hard to cross the boarder. Whereas it is very easy to get a Visa, enter legally, and then stay.

If you noticed I did not state anything about the country of origin of the illegal aliens. I also did not specify what border they crossed. I did include those overstaying visas.
Those entering legally, then overstaying their visas are just a guilty of breaking our current laws as those who enter without permission. If they get caught and deported, it is on them. The fact remains they chose to break our laws. There are consequences for doing so.