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[W:40] Hamas Condemns Ilhan Omar for Comparison to Israel

Equating what Hamas does and stands for with Israel defending its citizens from their terrorist attacks is simply an attempt to justify terrorism by Hamas.

When Hamas rejected terrorism its affiliated charities were assisted with Israeli government donations and Israeli money and people came and helped build roads, schools, mosques, hospitals, infrastructure. Hamas did choose non violence and when it did, it resulted in peaceful coexistence, mutual cooperation and Gaza citizens coming in to Israel to work.

Then Hamas chose terrorism. It blew up the roads, and other infrastructure built by Israeli government money. It took its citizens and openly tortured them and left them dying in the streets of Gaza as a warning not to collaborate in any way with Israel.

This organization and the Palestinian terrorist cells it engages with against Israel torture and kill their own citizens as much as they try with Israelis.

There ARE choices. If Hamas chose to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and denounce terrorism, the IDF would return to their barracks from Gaza and become a moot point.

Let the people who suppport Hamas stop dicking around on this forum with their couched references trying to make them sound rational and admit what they stand for:

1-Israel should not exist as a Jewish state but Muslims can have as many states as they want
2-Israel must be turned into a Muslim state it is the only solution
3-terrorism is acceptable to achieve a Muslim state in Israel.


By the way if you are a Muslim and you were taught by your Imam Jews can not and should not own land or have equal rights to a Jew, admit it-admit you believe in dhimmmitude-come on this forum and admit that is what you believe.

If you believe Jews are the only ethnic or religious group in the world who should not have a nation, say so.


Why do pro Hamas people on this forum couch their views, hide their true agendas, why?

Who is fooled?

By the way-many of us including myself the precise kind of Jew Hamas would kill no questions asked because I am a Zionist, believe Palestinians have legitimate grievances as to land title rights on the West Bank.

We believe if they recognize Israel as a Jewish state and denounce terror, the vast majority of Israelis will be willing to make major concessions ot help Palestinians with a second Palestinian nation since they rejected the Palestinian nation of Jordan,

I denounce Muhammed Abbas because he stood up in his assembly and along with his "moderate"Palestinian assembly members chanted "Death to Israel". I denounce the PA has made it clear they will never accept a Jewish state of Israel and the only state they will accept there is a Muslim state.

Israel can not and will not negotiate with anyone in ending its existence.

Most Zionists support the right of Palestinians to air their grievances and seek a better solution than the status quo on the West Bank.

We are no more all terrorists for being Zionist than Palestinians are terrorist for being Palestinian.
 
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cpwill said:
Hamas doesn't exactly need much in the way of an excuse to try to kill innocent people, but, I think - respectfully - that your hypothesis here rests on some leaps that lack supporting evidence.

I'm not sure I'd call what the IDF did "attacking" the al-Aqsa Mosque: they put up barriers to lock off some areas from protestors and to protect one set of protesters from another set of protesters. Palestinians responded with violence, and they responded in kind.

Background that both Times of Israel and al-Jazeera seem to agree on is: Israel allowed Jewish nationalists to have their celebration of Jerusalem Day, when they celebrate the end of the 1967 War.... except, because the Islamic calendar is lunar, and Ramadan therefore floats around relative to the Western calendar, this year Jerusalem Day fell towards the end of Ramadan, and the Palestinians reacted badly to the presence of Jews. The IDF used rubber bullets and pepper spray to disperse rioters, and arrested some.
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I saw some videos of the inside of the Mosque. Israeli forces didn't go in with murderous intent and I don't want to come off as saying or implying such but religious folk of any stripe, praying and getting shot with tear gas and rubber bullets... just imagine the outrage if Hamas was shooting rubber bullets at Jewish folk praying at the wall. It was a very very incidiary move. IMO religion isn't the problem as much as it is the excuse.

I think this is some of what I saw...

 
poweRob said:
I saw some videos of the inside of the Mosque. Israeli forces didn't go in with murderous intent and I don't want to come off as saying or implying such but religious folk of any stripe, praying and getting shot with tear gas and rubber bullets... just imagine the outrage if Hamas was shooting rubber bullets at Jewish folk praying at the wall. It was a very very incidiary move. IMO religion isn't the problem as much as it is the excuse.

I think this is some of what I saw...

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That video looks pretty much like what I described.....

The Israeli police forces didn't shoot people for praying, and, respectfully, your video does not show them doing so; it mostly shows the smoke and some people running, a couple of people clearly hurt who had not been shot by lethal ammunition, and a bunch of folks milling around.

I've seen what happens when someone opens up live lethal fire into a crowd at close range. "Folks just mill around while one or two hobble outward when they get hurt" isn't the result.

As cited by Israeli and Arab sources earlier, they shot gas and rubber bullets at people for rioting in response to the presence of Jews. If Palestinians hadn't initiated violence, there very likely would have been no violence. 🤷‍♂️
 
cpwill said:
Eh, not all killing is the same at all. Killing a man who is in the act of murdering children is very different than the act of the man doing the murdering.
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Cool, but at least be willing to say someone was killed.
 
Mika-El said:
Well let's see:

1-Does it have a Charter calling for the extermination of Muslims world wide in a holy war? No.
2-Does it deliberately place its civilians in harms way so they can die and then use their deaths as a pr stunt to gain sympathy? No.
3-Does it deiberately aim at Palestinians when it fires back? No.
4-Does it attack Muslims worldwide in terrorist attacks? No.
5-Have any of its leaders called for the beheading of Muslims worldwide? No.
6-Does it demand Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank become a Jewish state? No.

Anything else?
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Just the one question.

Did they kill anyone?
 
VanceMack said:
Every 12 months or so they respond to the missile attacks.
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They also violate , injure and/or kill Palestinians in the OPTs every day. Obviously you don't want to see that reality put into the mix.

Like most ,so called/self proclaimed, supporters of Israel, you start the equation at a point it suits your preferred perspectives. The equation starts with Zionisms wish to make another peoples homeland their own and leads right up to the present brutal/repressive occupation , illegal settlement and the mass HRs violations that accompany that. Chronology doesn't appear to be your friend here
 
VanceMack said:
Really? Does she also point out your hatred of Jews and bigotry when you try to compare the Israeli act of retaliation to thousands of terrorist attacks to the actions of terrorists?
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The state terrorists of states kill infinitely more people than do the group terrorists of the likes of Hamas. I know, you were taught only the other side and their allies commit terrorist acts. When they do it , it's terrorism, when you do it, it's counterterrorism. So predictable!
 
oneworld2 said:
The state terrorists of states kill infinitely more people than do the group terrorists of the likes of Hamas. I know, you were taught only the other side and their allies commit terrorist acts. When they do it , it's terrorism, when you do it, it's counterterrorism. So predictable!
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Someone comes into another persons yard and starts swinging, they can expect to be carried out in response.

You 'people' only find your voice when Israel retaliates after literally thousands of missiles have been lobbed at them. Whne Hamas is launiching wave after wave after wave you say nothing. Your hypocrisy and Jew hatred doesnt fool anyone.
 
VanceMack said:
Someone comes into another persons yard and starts swinging, they can expect to be carried out in response.

You 'people' only find your voice when Israel retaliates after literally thousands of missiles have been lobbed at them. Whne Hamas is launiching wave after wave after wave you say nothing. Your hypocrisy and Jew hatred doesnt fool anyone.
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If someone came into my yard swinging, they wouldn't die. Is it different for you?

Er...also, you 'people?' what do you mean by that?
 
JustAFella said:
If someone came into my yard swinging, they wouldn't die. Is it different for you?

Er...also, you 'people?' what do you mean by that?
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Cant say. Might...might not. Either way...pretty clearly they should stay out of my yard and we wont be having this discussion.
 
JustAFella said:
Hrm. Has the Israeli government done anything in kind?
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No.
Hamas does everything in its power to kill as much civilians as possible, while Israel does everything in its power to kill as few civilians as possible.
Moreover, Israels attacks help stop the Hamas attacks, while Hamas attacks don't contribute to the Palestinians in any way.
 
oneworld2 said:
They also violate , injure and/or kill Palestinians in the OPTs every day. Obviously you don't want to see that reality put into the mix.

Like most ,so called/self proclaimed, supporters of Israel, you start the equation at a point it suits your preferred perspectives. The equation starts with Zionisms wish to make another peoples homeland their own and leads right up to the present brutal/repressive occupation , illegal settlement and the mass HRs violations that accompany that. Chronology doesn't appear to be your friend here
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Palestininas suffer every day from their own brutal and corrupt leadership. Lies like these are used by them to redirect the anger of the people at an external source, and excuse the unhelpful terror attacks on Israel.
 
JustAFella said:
If someone came into my yard swinging, they wouldn't die. Is it different for you?
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Uhuh. What if someone was murdering children next door, and you could stop them by killing them, or let them continue, and those were your only options.
 
JustAFella said:
JustAFella said:
If someone came into my yard swinging, they wouldn't die. Is it different for you?

Er...also, you 'people?' what do you mean by that?
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How do you equate 4,200 missiles fired into Israel with someone coming into your yard swinging. How is not not different for you?

The smug simplistic comments go both ways.
 
JustAFella said:
Terrorist attacks in the name of responding to terrorist attacks are still terrorist attacks. Disagree?
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Don't. The tactic of posing a statement in the form of a question which you answer is a waste of your time and everyone else's on this forum.

If you want to call IDF responses to Hamas terrorist say so, The passive aggressive rhetorical statements only indicate you won't make a clear statement you are calling the IDF terrorists. Have the intellectual integrity to do so.

Next and again the tactic of saying "just one thing" and then posing a rhetorical question that people have died is not only insulting to your intelligence but everyone else's.

You know damn well people have and will die in both the Gaza and in Israel. You know damn well Hamas initiated 4,200 missile attacks, You know damn well Hamas is in a declared state of hostility with Israel and feels terrorism, i.e., the attack on Israeli citizens is acceptable and is deliberate to induce fear in all Israelis.

You also know damn well that if the IDF had deliberately wanted to kill Gaza civilians it would have issued a warning for all Gaza citizens to get out and/or flatten it completely.

The smug and simplistic references, they don't cut it.

If you have proof the IDF deliberately plans to kill civilians provide it.

The IDF does not dig tunnels into Gaza. It does not indiscriminately attack and kill Muslims worldwide as Hamas said.

The Hamas leader less then 3 weeks ago called for a war against all Jews worldwide calling to cut off the heads of all Jews.

I am not aware of an Israeli Prime Minister who has claimed that.

Muhammed Abbas stood up in his assembly and joined his designated representatives screaming death to Israel.

In the Knesset elected representatives yell a lot of things but not death to a Palestinian nation death to Gaza.

Spit it out. You want to draw moral equivalence between Hamas and the PA go ahead and do so.

Make your arguments.

The PA and Hamas and over 200 Palestinian terror cells operating in Gaza and the West Bank have made clear what their agenda is-turning Israel into a Muslim state. The terror wing of the PA including Fatah Hawks and all these other terrorist cells including Hamas have made it clear Jews all over the world are legitimate targets, Israeli civilians are legitimate targets and they will engage in terror and violence.

You want to draw moral equivalence between the IDF and Hamas go on do so. Explain how the tactics are the same. Explain how Israel wants to force a Jewish state in Gaza and the West Bank and will deliberately terrorize Muslim civilians world wide to achieve this end.

Go on. Please.

Please explain how Hamas is morally not responsible for deliberately placing its citizens in harms way to kill them to be used as a pr prop to gain world sympathy. Please explain how Israel places its civilians in harms way so they can die and get Israel sympathy on world stage.

Please explain the moral equivalence.
 
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