[W: 269: 295:296] *****Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

[bongsaway]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Are there any unforgivable sins?

Is there any action or "crime" that has the ultimate consequence of not being forgivable?

My guess is some of you will say that the only possible action that is unforgivable, is not asking for forgiveness.
Is there anything else?

Now since we also know that "god works in mysterious ways", isn't it possible god can forgive even those who don't ask for it?

If someone killed my wife, I couldn't care less is god forgave the person. The true test is can I forgive that person since I don't believe in any god/s.

 

[nota bene]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Yes really. If you didn't like my response, you could have scrolled past it.

What a childish response, and my answer to it is "Not really." My concern is the hijacking of this thread, and my point was cautionary.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

For you it's all about self worth. Elitism is what you seek, not enlightenment.

A possible reason.


Personally, I've long thought that religion (or politics) does not make people hate, but that haters flock to religion (and politics) in order to justify their hatred of others.

In the case of Christianity, can anyone here really imagine Christ hating someone seeking spiritual guidance? Ridiculing and demeaning those seeking to know the nature of God? I cannot, therefore those who do so "in the name of Christ (or God)" are not really acting in their name.

 

[Overitall]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Which you just stated "None of the originals are in existence today."

Many of the OT books do still exist in original form. The NT was written on the fly several decades after the Crucifixion then, a few hundred years later, a few books were selected out of many to convey the message of those who were in power.

Christianity evolved over several hundred years to become the form we see today. The concept of the Trinity was not among the original ideas. Same goes for the divinity of Christ.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you. But by “original” I mean that which was written or spoken by the holy men of God. As far as I know none of those still exist. Copies of them do. This is especially true of the Old Testament. But even the original letters of men like Paul and Peter are copies.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

If someone killed my wife, I couldn't care less is god forgave the person. The true test is can I forgive that person since I don't believe in any god/s.

Do you believe in an afterlife? Anything beyond the physical? I ask because that, too, is a factor. If a person believes that mortal life is just a phase in one's existence, then it's easier to see the "big picture" about life events. If a person believes "when you're dead, you're dead" and that we're all just ambulatory meat computers responding to biochemical programming, then I can see how their views would be narrowed. In that case, there is no "sin"; there's only the law and the law only applies to those who are caught.

 

[it's just me]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

For you it's all about self worth. Elitism is what you seek, not enlightenment.

Don't project your problems onto me, enlightenment is when you find out you don't know everything. Now, I do know a few things, and what I have given you here are facts, only to have you pooh pooh them instead of finding out for yourself. You can believe whatever sophistry you want but don't blame it on me.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Well - looks like you are not familiar with NWT and Watchtower. You can't make comparisons with something you hardly know.

I'm familiar with Watchtower and Awake (the two pamphlets) as well as the encyclopedia. I studied with JWs for dozens of hours over the course of two years. Never needed a NWT.

 

[Dragonfly]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

If a person believes that mortal life is just a phase in one's existence, then it's easier to see the "big picture" about life events.

What's the "big picture" about life events?

What does that mean?

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Don't project your problems onto me, enlightenment is when you find out you don't know everything. Now, I do know a few things, and what I have given you here are facts, only to have you pooh pooh them instead of finding out for yourself. You can believe whatever sophistry you want but don't blame it on me.

Bloviating.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

I don’t necessarily disagree with you. But by “original” I mean that which was written or spoken by the holy men of God. As far as I know none of those still exist. Copies of them do. This is especially true of the Old Testament. But even the original letters of men like Paul and Peter are copies.

As noted in the link below, the discovery of ancient texts such as the Dead Sea scrolls confirmed the "accuracy of transmission" of the ancient texts to modern copies.

Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia
The discovery demonstrated the unusual accuracy of transmission over a thousand-year period, rendering it reasonable to believe that current Old Testament texts are reliable copies of the original works.


On a related note, if people believe God gave the Bible to man, then would it make sense that the message was allowed to be lost over the centuries? However, if a person believes the Bible is only mankind's perceptions of Biblical/Godly events, then, yes, due to the fallibility of man, those perceptions would be distorted over time.

 

[it's just me]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

I'm familiar with Watchtower and Awake (the two pamphlets) as well as the encyclopedia. I studied with JWs for dozens of hours over the course of two years. Never needed a NWT.

To avoid discomforting enlightenment, by all means stay away from the NWT.

 

[it's just me]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Bloviating.

I'll dumb it down the next time.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

What's the "big picture" about life events?

What does that mean?

That mortal life is a phase which one's soul transcends upon death. That mortal life is the equivalent of going to kindergarten when compared to an eternal, non-corporeal existence. Some kindergartners hate school and spend all their time bitching about how cruel their parents are to send them there, others embrace it and see "the big picture" of kindergarten being a learning experience.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

I'll dumb it down the next time.

I think all that hate is as dumb as you can get.

 

[it's just me]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

I think all that hate is as dumb as you can get.

Again, don't project your crap on me, calling the truth "hateful" is not just dumb, it's anti - intellectual. But I accept your surrender.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

I think all that hate is as dumb as you can get.

Hate is certainly a negative emotion. Anger can be positive, especially in a desperate life-or-death situation, but hate blinds the reasoning powers of people. Hence several common phrases such as "blinded by hate", "he only saw red"and "blow a gasket". It's why police, soldiers and others involved in life-or-death occupations are taught to quell their emotions and remain calm because hate or intense emotion blinds their ability to reason.

 

[bongsaway]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Do you believe in an afterlife? Anything beyond the physical? I ask because that, too, is a factor. If a person believes that mortal life is just a phase in one's existence, then it's easier to see the "big picture" about life events. If a person believes "when you're dead, you're dead" and that we're all just ambulatory meat computers responding to biochemical programming, then I can see how their views would be narrowed. In that case, there is no "sin"; there's only the law and the law only applies to those who are caught.

I believe once you are dead, you're dead, period. If anything we 'might' be a piece of energy that goes back to the universe to be used elsewhere. You're also correct in the law only applies to those caught breaking it...and to some it doesn't seem to apply at all.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Again, don't project your crap on me, calling the truth "hateful" is not just dumb, it's anti - intellectual. But I accept your surrender.

You're calling Christians heretics and condemning them to eternal torture. I don't care how you mask it, that's what you're doing. That's your "Christianity". It's fake. All you care about is believing you're the special brand of Christian and better than all the rest. It's pathetic and it's not a preoccupation of real Christians.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Hate is certainly a negative emotion. Anger can be positive, especially in a desperate life-or-death situation, but hate blinds the reasoning powers of people. Hence several common phrases such as "blinded by hate", "he only saw red"and "blow a gasket". It's why police, soldiers and others involved in life-or-death occupations are taught to quell their emotions and remain calm because hate or intense emotion blinds their ability to reason.

Hate is based on ignorance and is thereby inherently blind.

 

[tosca1]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

You're calling Christians heretics and condemning them to eternal torture.

Oh boy, let's take a deep breath here.

How is calling out heretics, condemning them to eternal torture? :mrgreen:

It's only God who can condemn.

I don't care how you mask it, that's what you're doing. That's your "Christianity". It's fake. All you care about is believing you're the special brand of Christian and better than all the rest. It's pathetic and it's not a preoccupation of real Christians.

Calling out sin, is Christianity!

Warning your brother about sin.....is Christianity.

Calling out false teachings for what it is.....is Christianity!


You don't just sit back................................. and watch people fall off the cliff!

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Oh boy, let's take a deep breath here.

How is calling out heretics condemning them to eternal torture? :mrgreen:

You missed his rants about the sadistic hell other Christians are condemned to for not being the correct denomination. Piling hate on top of hate.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

I believe once you are dead, you're dead, period. If anything we 'might' be a piece of energy that goes back to the universe to be used elsewhere. You're also correct in the law only applies to those caught breaking it...and to some it doesn't seem to apply at all.

According to the physical laws of the Universe, yes, upon death, our bodies decompose and the laws of thermodynamics, law of conservation of energy and others continue to apply. Heck, our bodies are, as Carl Sagan once noted, "made of star stuff".

If one is spiritual and believes there is something beyond the physical, as most people do believe, then there is something in us (and, depending upon beliefs, all things) that transcends the cessation of mortal existence.

There is no evidence this happens, of course. OTOH, there is no evidence of what caused the origin of the Primordial Atom and the Big Bang. Current evidence shows it was a one-shot event; a Big Bang followed by the heat death AKA the Big Chill. Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

It's all just a big unknown.

 

[Overitall]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

As noted in the link below, the discovery of ancient texts such as the Dead Sea scrolls confirmed the "accuracy of transmission" of the ancient texts to modern copies.

Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia
The discovery demonstrated the unusual accuracy of transmission over a thousand-year period, rendering it reasonable to believe that current Old Testament texts are reliable copies of the original works.


On a related note, if people believe God gave the Bible to man, then would it make sense that the message was allowed to be lost over the centuries? However, if a person believes the Bible is only mankind's perceptions of Biblical/Godly events, then, yes, due to the fallibility of man, those perceptions would be distorted over time.

Thanks for your citation. I think it basically affirms my point. (Note the highlighted words). One has to keep in mind that not all the books found in our current versions of the Bible are found in the DSS. For instance I think Esther is missing entirely. And not all words in every book have been recovered. It’s been a long time since I studied this stuff so I may be mistaken on details.

On your other point. The whole message was not lost. In fact even the “gist” of the message is sufficient for millions upon millions to believe and worship God. Can’t win them all but I think He most likely is pleased with what He has.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Hate is based on ignorance and is thereby inherently blind.

Hate can be alleviated by education, so you are correct that some hate is based on ignorance. However, hate can also be caused by mental defect and that may or may not be cured by treatment depending upon the nature of the defect.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: Are There Any "Unforgivable" Sins ????

Hate can be alleviated by education, so you are correct that some hate is based on ignorance. However, hate can also be caused by mental defect and that may or may not be cured by treatment depending upon the nature of the defect.

Okay. In normal brains ignorance is always the source of hate. So in normal brains hate is thereby inherently blind. And I don't mean a lack of formal education. I mean a lack of knowledge regarding whatever or whomever is hated.