[W:254] What is a "living wage?"

[Citizen]

That's exactly what he's doing.

He thinks this is Iceland with a population of 379,000 people and a uniform Cost-of-Living,

And, he's part of the Entitlement Crowd: It exists, therefore I am entitled.

He's mad because I won't pay for his $180/month cable bill and $150/month for streaming-services, and $200/month for his Apple iPhone and cell services and his Honda Prius and whatever else.

Do you realize that people who make less than 25k per year get government subsidies. No matter where they live. Now tell me who you know that lives independently on 7.25 an hour.

 

[cpwill]

Are you not understanding that living off of 7.25 an hour is not the same as your situation?

Absolutely; I've been low income and worked with them for years.

However, that wasn't what you said in that post. You stated "No one lives of of just $30k a year". If that is the case - and I think that it is not - then that would suggest, mathematically, that we pretty much had poverty licked. Everyone is living off of more than $30k.

Which, it is worth noting, puts pretty much the entire US population in the global 1%. Go Team America

 

[Citizen]

Absolutely; I've been low income and worked with them for years.

However, that wasn't what you said in that post. You stated "No one lives of of just $30k a year". If that is the case - and I think that it is not - then that would suggest, mathematically, that we pretty much had poverty licked. Everyone is living off of more than $30k.

Which, it is worth noting, puts pretty much the entire US population in the global 1%. Go Team America

Do you know a couple that is living independently off of 30k per year?

 

[cpwill]

Do you know a couple that is living independently off of 30k per year?

We did, back when I was brand new in the Marine Corps, although folks are always swift to point out that the Military also gets health benefits, which should count as income.

It's an interesting question, but you claimed that no such people existed. If that is the case, then, well, that would be a grand thing, as it would mean we had poverty pretty well licked. Is that your argument?

 

[OpportunityCost]

Do you know a couple that is living independently off of 30k per year?

I would strongly suggest you are not looking very far.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sangamoncountyillinois/PST045219

Median household income (in 2019 dollars), 2015-2019	$61,912
Per capita income in past 12 months (in 2019 dollars), 2015-2019	$35,509

 

[Citizen]

I would strongly suggest you are not looking very far.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sangamoncountyillinois/PST045219

Median household income (in 2019 dollars), 2015-2019	$61,912
Per capita income in past 12 months (in 2019 dollars), 2015-2019	$35,509

So where does it say they are not getting government assistance

 

[Citizen]

We did, back when I was brand new in the Marine Corps, although folks are always swift to point out that the Military also gets health benefits, which should count as income.

It's an interesting question, but you claimed that no such people existed. If that is the case, then, well, that would be a grand thing, as it would mean we had poverty pretty well licked. Is that your argument?

I really don’t understand what you are saying, but back in 1975, I lived off of less than 10k a year. But this is 2021. 7.25 in 2021 is not quite the same as 7.25 in 1996

 

[OpportunityCost]

So where does it say they are not getting government assistance

Where does it say they are? Simply if the median income is barely above what you think is the poverty line, they aren't all on assistance. Cost of living just isn't the same everywhere.

 

[cpwill]

I really don’t understand what you are saying, but back in 1975, I lived off of less than 10k a year. But this is 2021. 7.25 in 2021 is not quite the same as 7.25 in 1996

True enough, and it's probably not the same as it was back in 2008.

If, as you seem to be claiming, No One Is Living On Less Than $30k A Year, then my point is that your statement suggests all U.S. citizens are currently making more than that, likely pulling nigh on the entirety of them out of poverty.

I do not think you are correct about that, but, you seem to hold to it.

 

[Citizen]

True enough, and it's probably not the same as it was back in 2008.

If, as you seem to be claiming, No One Is Living On Less Than $30k A Year, then my point is that your statement suggests all U.S. citizens are currently making more than that, likely pulling nigh on the entirety of them out of poverty.

I do not think you are correct about that, but, you seem to hold to it.

But that is not what I said. I said not couple is living off of 30k per year independently

 

[cpwill]

But that is not what I said. I said not couple is living off of 30k per year independently

AH. So you mean that any couple who is making $30k / year is likely also recieving public support, bringing their total post-transfer income above $30k ?

 

[Citizen]

Where does it say they are? Simply if the median income is barely above what you think is the poverty line, they aren't all on assistance. Cost of living just isn't the same everywhere.

Well, I asked you to show me where. You haven't

 

[skeptic llc]

Apologies for repetition if, somewhere in the last 25 pages of comments, someone already said this. A "living wage" is the wage that would have to be given to a worker who is single or has a non-working spouse, to support a family (kids, plus maybe said non-working spouse) in reasonable comfort with no additional source of income, while working full time but no more. If we could magically decree things, everyone would earn a living wage (or more!). Also, we would legislate away tummy aches and bad weather.

 

[Citizen]

AH. So you mean that any couple who is making $30k / year is likely also recieving public support, bringing their total post-transfer income above $30k ?

Likely

 

[Mircea]

Do you realize that people who make less than 25k per year get government subsidies. No matter where they live. Now tell me who you know that lives independently on 7.25 an hour.

That's not true. As I have explained repeatedly, there are people with incomes of $14,001/annually who do not qualify for HUD Section 8 housing because they make too much money in the low Cost-of-Living area where they live.

Single people, a family of two and family of three earning $25,000/year get nothing in federal subsidies (although they might qualify for HUD Section 8 in certain areas of the US), because they are below the poverty level threshold for the federal government (but not necessarily below the poverty level threshold for their State).

Given that only 1.6 Million people actually make the federal minimum wage, I'd have to grab 100 people just in the hope of finding one that actually does.

And, given that 1+Million of those 1.6 Million are part-time employees, I really don't expect someone who desires to work part-time to be able to live independently.

I suppose the real question is why do you think people who work part-time should be able to enjoy the living standards that those working full-time enjoy?

 

[joko104]

For the Democratic Party, it means at least $15/hr ($600 per week / $2500 per month) for a 16 year old dishwasher - whether citizen or illegal immigrant - but as little as $42 a month for the elderly on social security.

 

[Citizen]

That's not true. As I have explained repeatedly, there are people with incomes of $14,001/annually who do not qualify for HUD Section 8 housing because they make too much money in the low Cost-of-Living area where they live.

Single people, a family of two and family of three earning $25,000/year get nothing in federal subsidies (although they might qualify for HUD Section 8 in certain areas of the US), because they are below the poverty level threshold for the federal government (but not necessarily below the poverty level threshold for their State).

Given that only 1.6 Million people actually make the federal minimum wage, I'd have to grab 100 people just in the hope of finding one that actually does.

And, given that 1+Million of those 1.6 Million are part-time employees, I really don't expect someone who desires to work part-time to be able to live independently.

I suppose the real question is why do you think people who work part-time should be able to enjoy the living standards that those working full-time enjoy?

You can say a whole lot of stuff, but that does not mean it is true. Now who do you know that lives independently on 7.25 an hour.

 

[Citizen]

For the Democratic Party, it means at least $15/hr ($600 per week / $2500 per month) for a 16 year old dishwasher - whether citizen or illegal immigrant - but as little as $42 a month for the elderly on social security.

a 16 year old is probably part time and won't make $600 per week

 

[joko104]

a 16 year old is probably part time and won't make $600 per week

Most 16 year olds could find any kind of $15 an hour job, whether part time or full time. Those jobs would be filled my illegal immigrants given a work permit and American elderly on social security so they aren't evicted and trying to come up with medical co=pay.
The except would be that entry level jobs become in such short supply, it takes a bachelor's college degree to get that dishwashing $15 per hour job.

 

[Individual]

Most, if not all, jobs which are considered career jobs pay a living wage or more, adequate to support and provide the needs of an individual.
Other jobs which can be filled by practically anyone,regardless of education are more likely not to be worth paying a living wage, but instead provide additional income to someone who wants to increase their income to provide a living "income" based upon their needs and/or wants. "Welcome to Walmart." for example, If the cost to employ a dishwasher is greater than the cost of the dishes, it would be more rational to simply buy dishes in large quantity and eliminate the dishwasher.
If a business hires a single (unmarried) individual and pays them what is considered a living wage, and that person marries and has 3 kids, should their wages be raised to compensate for the increased costs of the employee?

 

[Maccabee]

For the Democratic Party, it means at least $15/hr ($600 per week / $2500 per month) for a 16 year old dishwasher - whether citizen or illegal immigrant - but as little as $42 a month for the elderly on social security.

First off, what's wrong with paying the 16 year old dishwasher $15/He? He's doing a job most of us wouldn't want to do. Second, why not match SS to the minimum wage?

 

[joko104]

First off, what's wrong with paying the 16 year old dishwasher $15/He? He's doing a job most of us wouldn't want to do. Second, why not match SS to the minimum wage?

Why not $150 an hour?
I haven't seen Biden, Pelosi, Schumer or the Democratic party doing anything to increase SS to even the current minimum wage. Have you?
NO, a $15 dollar required wage means the 16 year old has no job at all, nor should he receive it due to the great offense this is against the disabled and seniors on SS. The government ordering private business to be charity, while the government exempts itself from charity for a far greater need is outrageous.

 

[Maccabee]

Why not $150 an hour?

If the company can afford it, sure, why not? But really, the minimum wage should be tied to inflation like it was when it was first implemented. If we do that, we should actually have a $20+ MW by now. Are you suggesting the MW should remain stagnant forever?

I haven't seen Biden, Pelosi, Schumer or the Democratic party doing anything to increase SS to even the current minimum wage. Have you?

No, but they should.

NO, a $15 dollar required wage means the 16 year old has no job at all, nor should he receive it due to the great offense this is against the disabled and seniors on SS. The government ordering private business to be charity, while the government exempts itself from charity for a far greater need is outrageous.

Historically, that has never been the case. Almost every time the minimum wage is increased, more jobs are created and people have more money to spend.

 

[joko104]

If the company can afford it, sure, why not? But really, the minimum wage should be tied to inflation like it was when it was first implemented. If we do that, we should actually have a $20+ MW by now. Are you suggesting the MW should remain stagnant forever?



No, but they should.


Historically, that has never been the case. Almost every time the minimum wage is increased, more jobs are created and people have more money to spend.

I gotta go. Appreciate time you took to reply. I'll try to get back to this.

 

[poweRob]