[W: #18] Jesus is GOD

[redbeer]

I don't know your former religious background, but I do know that following GOD requires one to follow HIS Word . That doesn't mean one may not experience questions and moments of doubt, but, it does require perseverance in expecting GOD to reveal the answers one seeks. And that is maturity. Everyone's days are numbered as are the hairs of our head.

Yes it does:


Jesus praying to his Father:

(Joh 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


God speaking to the Israelites:

(Deu 6:4) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
(Deu 6:5) And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.


It's the mark of God's People:

(Deu 6:8) And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
(Deu 6:9) And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.


Not to follow the strange gods around:

(Deu 6:14) Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
(Deu 6:15) (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.


The trinity is NOT any part of this equation, whatsoever, in fact hopes to draw God's people away from the truth to follow after strange, mysterious gods having the appearance of God-like, but inside are ravenous wolves.

 

[Daisy]

I don't feel shame nor guilt with regard to anything the Witnesses offer. I do feel sorrow that such fervent people could be so blind to the truth as are those who practice Mormonism. I wish I could remove your blinders, but only the HOLY SPIRIT can do that. The questions are which do YOU love more, JW.org or Our LORD JESUS CHRIST? And which are YOU willing to serve the Kingdom Hall or HOLY SPIRIT? Both require your cooperation with them and not some organization.

And I feel exactly the same way about you...expect I'm not obsessing over you or what you believe...

 

[Daisy]

Trinitarianism is the largest multi-branched organization in the history of the world, having its tentacles within the majority of Christianity, both Catholicism and Protestantism require belief in this doctrine.

I notice most trinitarians who attempt to debate always end up losing the debate and turn it into personal insults and accusations, for they don't have a lot of scripture for support, mainly nothing but only twisted, obscure, read into verses hodge-podged together like a mysterious puzzle only they grasp.

As you know, I'm not a trinitarian nor a member of the JW's and from what I can see, Daisy has left you all in the dust, to where now all you can do is hurl insults, crying for the teething ring.

Insults is all they got...that's what's sad and certainly not a way to win someone over...

 

[LittleNipper]

Yes it does:


Jesus praying to his Father:

(Joh 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


God speaking to the Israelites:

(Deu 6:4) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
(Deu 6:5) And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.


It's the mark of God's People:

(Deu 6:8) And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
(Deu 6:9) And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.


Not to follow the strange gods around:

(Deu 6:14) Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
(Deu 6:15) (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.


The trinity is NOT any part of this equation, whatsoever, in fact hopes to draw God's people away from the truth to follow after strange, mysterious gods having the appearance of God-like, but inside are ravenous wolves.

One must know GOD and JESUS CHRIST, It's not just one or the other because THEY are ONE.

 

[redbeer]

One must know GOD and JESUS CHRIST, It's not just one or the other because THEY are ONE.

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. He is the door, the only way to God the Father. Together we are one through having the same God as Jesus. As the Father was in Christ now they come to be one in us and we are one as they are one.


(Joh 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


(Joh 17:21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(Joh 17:22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
(Joh 17:23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. He is the door, the only way to God the Father. Together we are one through having the same God as Jesus. As the Father was in Christ now they come to be one in us and we are one as they are one.


(Joh 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


(Joh 17:21) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
(Joh 17:22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
(Joh 17:23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

CHRIST is not a created being. Since HE is the door to the eternal "house" can that door be any less eternal?

 

[redbeer]

CHRIST is not a created being. Since HE is the door to the eternal "house" can that door be any less eternal?

(Rom 5:7) For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
(Rom 5:8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(Rom 5:9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
(Rom 5:10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
(Rom 5:11) And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


It was not another god or a part of the One true God which saved us, it was by the death and blood of God's Son, the Christ which reconciles us to God. Jesus was born a mortal human being like all human beings, died as all humans eventually do and through his obedience to his Father and God this man saved us.

Raised from death, ascended to heaven and received the gift of the HS from the Father, given all authority and power from God, Jesus is our Lord decreed by the only true God, His Father.

Look at those verses......"Christ died for us", "justified by his blood", "saved from wrath", reconciled to God by the death of his Son", and "saved by his life".....God has no need of an anointing, is not mortal capable of death, neither did God become a man for God sent His Son. This son was miraculously conceived in Mary, born a true human being and the entire reason for this creation, to come in the meridian of time, for God so loved the world that he sent His son.

Fantastic scripture to think about:


(1Jn 4:10) Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
(1Jn 4:11) Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
(1Jn 4:12) No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
(1Jn 4:13) Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
(1Jn 4:14) And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
(1Jn 4:15) Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
(1Jn 4:16) And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
(1Jn 4:17) Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
(1Jn 4:18) There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
(1Jn 4:19) We love him, because he first loved us.
(1Jn 4:20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
(1Jn 4:21) And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

 

[LittleNipper]

A man doesn't need to make HIMSELF of no reputation. Philippians 2:7 But made HIMSELF of no reputation, and took upon HIM the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

 

[redbeer]

A man doesn't need to make HIMSELF of no reputation. Philippians 2:7 But made HIMSELF of no reputation, and took upon HIM the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Each of us need to follow Jesus' example and have the same mindset:


(Php 2:5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:


You are preaching that we should not have this mindset, the exact opposite to the scripture's intention. These verses have been twisted by trinitarians to foster false doctrine, as it's nothing about a God dropping his Godhood to become a man......that's ridiculous.

 

[Daisy]

 

[tosca1]

John 1

The Word Became Flesh​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.




1 John 1

The Word of Life​

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—
2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—
3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And we are writing these things so that our[a] joy may be complete.

 

[tosca1]

@Alter2Ego



Is JESUS an angel?

You might want to show me where that is stated in the Bible.

 

[redbeer]

John 1

The Word Became Flesh​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.


(1Jn 1:5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(1Jn 1:6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
(1Jn 1:7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


1 John 1

The Word of Life​

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—
2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—
3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And we are writing these things so that our[a] joy may be complete.

Yeah, keep reading:


(1Jn 1:5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(1Jn 1:6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
(1Jn 1:7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


It was not a part of God which cleansed their sin....what was it? The blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Trinitarianism turns the sacrifice of both Jesus and His Father into a 'circus show' lessening the love God has for us and the obedience of the Christ to follow through for us. All of these men and women during the time of Jesus, who walked with him, ate with him, was with him through his death and resurrection are telling us that they saw, knew, felt and testify to us the "eternal life" which was and is God the Father made manifest to them through His Son, Jesus the Christ.

Man cannot see God and live in this material world, but they saw the Christ, the Son of God and this one had "God in him", for the Father was clearly manifest to be 'in' Christ. This is the problem with trinitarianism......you deny the Father then raise the Christ "of" God "to" God. Think on that for a minute......the religious leaders of Jesus' time actually killed this Christ of God, because they saw Jesus as claiming to be God.....forward to today and they are still killing the Christ of God, claiming he is God. Albeit, raising him to idol worship status, awaiting his return this Jesus of theirs is eerily similar to the 'golden calf' in Moses time.

In John 1 the correct understanding is whose "logos" did Jesus speak?.....was it his own or those of somebody else? I'm sure you know the correct answer.

 

[redbeer]

Romans 1: 23.....they've made a God of human flesh, a Godman unto themselves no longer see the incorruptible God as God. Much of scripture is ignored or twisted to embellish their fantasy of a human God, instead of knowing God was 'in' Christ, they've turned it into Christ is God, a monumental change done through subtly even convincing others to say/believe 3 persons are 1 being.....it's amazing.

 

[Loulit01]

Watch How Jesus Became God | Prime Video

What exactly happened, such that Jesus came to be considered God? To ask this question is to delve into a fascinating, multilayered historical puzzle - one that offers a richly illuminating look into the origins of the Western worldview and the theological underpinnings of our civilization...

www.amazon.com

He didn't start out that way.

 

[LittleNipper]

Each of us need to follow Jesus' example and have the same mindset:


(Php 2:5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:


You are preaching that we should not have this mindset, the exact opposite to the scripture's intention. These verses have been twisted by trinitarians to foster false doctrine, as it's nothing about a God dropping his Godhood to become a man......that's ridiculous.

Absolute nonsense, Trinitarians. We believe in grace displayed through works and not works as the means of salvation. We believe in ONE GOD manifested in the FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT ---- and this is also known as the GODHEAD in the Bible...

• Colossians 2:9
  For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
  
• Romans 1:20
  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
  

 

[redbeer]

Absolute nonsense, Trinitarians. We believe in grace displayed through works and not works as the means of salvation. We believe in ONE GOD manifested in the FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT ---- and this is also known as the GODHEAD in the Bible...

• Colossians 2:9
  For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
• Romans 1:20
  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

"Godhead" is not a descriptive word for a triune God. It's divinity, divine.......and we know from scripture, it's true for God was "in" Christ, the Father is "in" Christ, as Jesus and the apostles tell us many times. It's not that the Christ of God is God, it's that "God was in Christ" in fullness and in truth.

For in Christ, dwells the fullness, the entirety, the completeness of God's Spirit, for the Father is in Christ, for God was with and in Him. So much so, that when we see Christ, we see the Father:


(Joh 14:5) Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
(Joh 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(Joh 14:7) If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
(Joh 14:8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
(Joh 14:9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
(Joh 14:10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
(Joh 14:11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


Jesus had the "fullness" of the divinity (Godhead) and notice it's not a plural 'them' or 'they' or group, it's a singular "He", namely the Father who is God. All of these men/women and Jesus himself are testifying/witnessing to you that "God was in Christ", over and over and over......yet in comes trinitarianism and changes the very core message to another, changing it to "Christ is God". This is the grave error of this doctrine.

 

[tosca1]

Yeah, keep reading:


(1Jn 1:5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(1Jn 1:6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
(1Jn 1:7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


It was not a part of God which cleansed their sin....what was it? The blood of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Trinitarianism turns the sacrifice of both Jesus and His Father into a 'circus show' lessening the love God has for us and the obedience of the Christ to follow through for us. All of these men and women during the time of Jesus, who walked with him, ate with him, was with him through his death and resurrection are telling us that they saw, knew, felt and testify to us the "eternal life" which was and is God the Father made manifest to them through His Son, Jesus the Christ.

Man cannot see God and live in this material world, but they saw the Christ, the Son of God and this one had "God in him", for the Father was clearly manifest to be 'in' Christ. This is the problem with trinitarianism......you deny the Father then raise the Christ "of" God "to" God. Think on that for a minute......the religious leaders of Jesus' time actually killed this Christ of God, because they saw Jesus as claiming to be God.....forward to today and they are still killing the Christ of God, claiming he is God. Albeit, raising him to idol worship status, awaiting his return this Jesus of theirs is eerily similar to the 'golden calf' in Moses time.

In John 1 the correct understanding is whose "logos" did Jesus speak?.....was it his own or those of somebody else? I'm sure you know the correct answer.

I'll believe what the Bible says - in so many different ways - that Jesus is GOD in human form, thank you.



Furthermore, we get it from JESUS, Himself:


I AM THE ALPHA AND OMEGA.

 

[redbeer]

I'll believe what the Bible says - in so many different ways - that Jesus is GOD in human form, thank you.



Furthermore, we get it from JESUS, Himself:


I AM THE ALPHA AND OMEGA.

The risen, glorified Christ has been given all power and authority from whom?.....his Father and God the Almighty. Acting on God's behalf, having been given this authority, Jesus is our Lord, yet we including Jesus all should have the same one true God.

The angel speaking in Revelation.....is he God or Christ?....of course not, but he was speaking of their behalf. Exactly as Jesus the Christ speaks/acts with authority on behalf of God. Everything, especially Christ points to God the Father the Almighty.

God did not die on the cross, Jesus the Christ did.....God does not have blood, Jesus the Christ did.....God cannot die, Jesus the Christ did...God has no need for an anointing, Jesus the Christ did.....God does not have power or authority given to Him, Jesus the Christ did.....God does not save us by His blood, Jesus the Christ did....

You believe in the doctrine of the trinity, not the bible.

 

[LittleNipper]

The risen, glorified Christ has been given all power and authority from whom?.....his Father and God the Almighty. Acting on God's behalf, having been given this authority, Jesus is our Lord, yet we including Jesus all should have the same one true God.

The angel speaking in Revelation.....is he God or Christ?....of course not, but he was speaking of their behalf. Exactly as Jesus the Christ speaks/acts with authority on behalf of God. Everything, especially Christ points to God the Father the Almighty.

God did not die on the cross, Jesus the Christ did.....God does not have blood, Jesus the Christ did.....God cannot die, Jesus the Christ did...God has no need for an anointing, Jesus the Christ did.....God does not have power or authority given to Him, Jesus the Christ did.....God does not save us by His blood, Jesus the Christ did....

You believe in the doctrine of the trinity, not the bible.

You just cannot accept CHRIST as the perfect expression of the FATHER. And as that perfect expression, HE is in fact GOD.

 

[Daisy]

Let's review again...

 

[LittleNipper]

Let's review again...

Let's show how you are wrong.

The Trinity is the understanding that the FATHER, MESSIAH, and HOLY SPIRIT have always existed and will always exist. They are titled GOD being the same essence and fully compatible with each other in love, desire, and perfection. Through the Bible it is clearly shown that these three persons all had a hand in the creation. The person labeled the SON emptied HIMSELF to assume a human form to become the perfect sacrifice that fallen man might be saved through HIS payment for our transgressions. As a result, the SON became the perfect SON of MAN, and became fully dependent upon the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT for guidance as a perfect human should. To receive this guidance the SON prayed. The FATHER in turn made a declaration of the SON's perfection to the world by saying how very pleased HE was of the SON. While the HOLY SPIRIT descended and alighted upon the SON as a sign of HIS anointed position.
Upon the cross, the SON was literally separated from the FATHER for a moment in time as the SON carried the guilt of ALL SIN upon HIMSELF. Only a person of the GODHEAD would have been capable of performing such a feat. Once accomplished, the GODHEAD was reunited because the MESSIAH/CHRIST/SON/JESUS arose and conquered death being GOD in the form of flesh. HE now has a body of the sort that all believers will one day possess.

 

[Daisy]

 

[redbeer]

You just cannot accept CHRIST as the perfect expression of the FATHER. And as that perfect expression, HE is in fact GOD.

An image of you is not you, it's a picture, a resemblance. Christ being the perfect image of the Father, but not the Father. There is only One who is God, namely the Father of Christ and this is what Jesus told us.

 

[Daisy]