[W: #18] Jesus is GOD

[redbeer]

Nonsense! They constantly say that HE (JESUS) makes HIMSELF out to be equal with GOD.

Lol, we must understand the "coming" Messiah they were looking for was NOT to be God, but one like unto Moses, anointed by God. The religious leaders and this high priest did not believe Jesus was the Christ, the coming one, so to destroy his name, character, and reputation they falsely accused him of claiming to be God......why side with these liars?

JESUS had emptied HIMSELF to take on humanity and become SON of MAN. CHRIST depended on the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT from the very beginning of HIS MINISTRY.

Phil. 2: 7 does not teach that.


(Php 2:5) For, let this mind be in you that is also in Christ Jesus,
(Php 2:6) who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,
(Php 2:7) but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
(Php 2:8) and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death—death even of a cross,
(Php 2:9) wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,
(Php 2:10) that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow—of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth—
(Php 2:11) and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


It takes an abundant imagination to contrive here that Jesus was a God, who dropped his godhood to become a man, lol. This "mind" should also be in us.....it's a humbling attitude to be obedient to God.....Jesus did and "God" highly exalted him. We are to follow this example.

JESUS was in fact claiming to be GOD. He in ONE with the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT! I AM is YAHW = JEHOVAH/YAHWEH JESUS likely said it in Hebrew and that would have emphasized that implication. JESUS CHRIST NEVER denied what they said. And HE could have answered them in an entirely different way. You simply do not understand the magnitude of GOD and HIS immense scope and power. Yesterday, today, and tomorrow. There's some more triplets for you.

I AM one with the Father and Christ......according to your thought process, I guess I am God too....wow, there must be billions and billions of Gods through the millennia. Jesus prayed that we would be one as he and his Father are one, and guess what?.....we can become One as they are One.

Stating the phrase "I am" after being questioned if you are the Christ is NOT stating he is God.

Heck, let's not stop there......let's look for doubles, quadruples, sevens, etc in scripture.

 

[redbeer]

CHRIST cannot live in you if you don't worship HIM. In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD, and the WORD was GOD. The TRINITY (FATHER, SON, SPIRIT) is the mystery manifested to the saints of CHRIST.

Nonsense, Jesus is the Christ and it is HE who brings us to God, His Father.......the trinity does NOT.

 

[LittleNipper]

Nonsense, Jesus is the Christ and it is HE who brings us to God, His Father.......the trinity does NOT.

GOD is a TRIUNE package. They are ONE

 

[LittleNipper]

Lol, we must understand the "coming" Messiah they were looking for was NOT to be God, but one like unto Moses, anointed by God. The religious leaders and this high priest did not believe Jesus was the Christ, the coming one, so to destroy his name, character, and reputation they falsely accused him of claiming to be God......why side with these liars?



Phil. 2: 7 does not teach that.


(Php 2:5) For, let this mind be in you that is also in Christ Jesus,
(Php 2:6) who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,
(Php 2:7) but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
(Php 2:8) and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death—death even of a cross,
(Php 2:9) wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,
(Php 2:10) that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow—of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth—
(Php 2:11) and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


It takes an abundant imagination to contrive here that Jesus was a God, who dropped his godhood to become a man, lol. This "mind" should also be in us.....it's a humbling attitude to be obedient to God.....Jesus did and "God" highly exalted him. We are to follow this example.



I AM one with the Father and Christ......according to your thought process, I guess I am God too....wow, there must be billions and billions of Gods through the millennia. Jesus prayed that we would be one as he and his Father are one, and guess what?.....we can become One as they are One.

Stating the phrase "I am" after being questioned if you are the Christ is NOT stating he is God.

Heck, let's not stop there......let's look for doubles, quadruples, sevens, etc in scripture.

You don't WORSHIP CHRIST, you are not a CHRISTian. And CHRIST who is in the very form GOD, doesn't regard being GOD to be stealing, but EQUALITY. You simply don't understand the verses you are quoting --- all are expressing exactly what I'm saying and you don't want to hear.

 

[Daisy]

ut you believe that you are only flesh and have no spirit according to the Witness teachings.

That is not true...our spirit/life-giving force returns to God...our soul is made up of body and spirit
combined...

"Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7

"As long as my breath is within me And spirit from God is in my nostrils," Job 27:3

"And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person." Genesis 2:7

But you don't preach the GOSPEL. You go door to door promoting "kingdom government".

Again, not true...

Whatever the cost, Jehovah’s Witnesses adhere closely to the Bible. They have not invented a new religion. They merely follow what is written in the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel, which is the foundation of true religion.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101995240?q=what+is+the+gospel&p=sen

 

[LittleNipper]

Problem is, there is only one sitting on the throne and Jesus sits to the right of the throne. No multi-personage here on the throne. I understand scripture doesn't speak of a trinity and trinitarians need to be imaginative with scripture, but dang, this is a wild stretch.

Three persons can do that all the time. That doesn't change their character.

 

[Daisy]

Hard to grasp why it is trinitarians join forces with those who had Jesus killed.....the high priest and religious leaders were all envious, liars, false accusers, didn't understand the words of Jesus, and hated him. Yet, trinitarians side with them each and every time, weird. Jesus was asked if he was the Christ, he said "yes, I am".......but you and the liars say he is claiming to be God, why twist his words?

Amen!

 

[Daisy]

Nonsense, Jesus is the Christ and it is HE who brings us to God, His Father.......the trinity does NOT.

True...Jesus is the door...the door to who? Jehovah God...

"I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and that one will go in and out and find pasturage." John 10:9

"Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

 

[Daisy]

GOD is a TRIUNE package. They are ONE

 

[LittleNipper]

That is not true...our spirit/life-giving force returns to God...our soul is made up of body and spirit
combined...

"Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7

"As long as my breath is within me And spirit from God is in my nostrils," Job 27:3

"And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person." Genesis 2:7


Again, not true...

Whatever the cost, Jehovah’s Witnesses adhere closely to the Bible. They have not invented a new religion. They merely follow what is written in the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel, which is the foundation of true religion.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101995240?q=what+is+the+gospel&p=sen

The Witnesses ahere to THEIR teachings, THEIR leadership, THEIR translation (NWT), THEIR literature. THEIR regulations. They don't listen to the still small voice of the HOLY SPIRIT that is naggingly telling them that they are practicing legalism and that CHRIST is so much more. THEY wont listen to CHRIST's Witnesses. They wont read literature outside of their sphere of influence. They are afraid of being disfellowshipped, THEY are afraid of making THEIR own determinations. THEY what everyone else to agree with their beliefs. THEY are afraid of being labelled apostates. They are afraid of association outside their own congregation. They are afraid of what their membership will think of them.

 

[LittleNipper]

So tell me, Just how many individuals among the Witnesses do not agree with all the teachings of the Witnesses? Or are the teaching accepted because that's what the majority dictates?
Trinitarians in the Majority? I don't believe so! Research indicates most Americans who attend religious services, including Christian denominations, reject the traditional Trinity. A recent study found that only a minority of churchgoers, especially those attending evangelical and Pentecostal churches, embrace the concept of the Trinity. So, it would appear that your judgement has returned to haunt you... You are simply like most other non-christians.

 

[Daisy]

So tell me, Just how many individuals among the Witnesses do not agree with all the teachings of the Witnesses? Or are the teaching accepted because that's what the majority dictates?
Trinitarians in the Majority? I don't believe so! Research indicates most Americans who attend religious services, including Christian denominations, reject the traditional Trinity. A recent study found that only a minority of churchgoers, especially those attending evangelical and Pentecostal churches, embrace the concept of the Trinity. So, it would appear that your judgement has returned to haunt you... You are simply like most other non-christians.

Do you believe what Paul said? I do...that is why there are so many splinters of Christendom because they fail to believe him...there are no splinters among the JW's...

"Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." 1 Corinthians 1:10

 

[LittleNipper]

Do you believe what Paul said? I do...that is why there are so many splinters of Christendom because they fail to believe him...there are no splinters among the JW's...

"Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." 1 Corinthians 1:10

I don't disagree. However, you belong to a Kingdom Hall and not a CHURCH. And GOD does raise up individuals to bring a spotlight on heresy. The Apostle Paul’s first recorded words (when starting his ministry) didn't concern CHRIST, but a rebuke to an individual who misappropriated the name of Jesus for his own purposes. The man assumed the label “Bar-Jesus” in Acts 13:4-12 which literally means, “Son of Jesus.” Paul confronted this man’s heresy in front of many witnesses saying, “Will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord?” (13:10)

The CHURCH isn't an organization but consists of everyone who is saved everywhere. The Witnesses feel that they are the soul survivors and everyone else is apostate. The Mormons take the very same stance, as do the Scientologists, the Worldwide Church of God, Branch Divinians, Moonies, and there are others.

CHRISTians should speak in agreement, but not everyone is CHRISTian, and not everyone wishes to be.

 

[Daisy]

In the Bible, "church" (Greek: ekklesia) generally refers to the people of God, the body of Christ, rather than a physical building. It signifies the gathering of believers who have been called out from the world to follow Jesus and live under his authority. The church is a spiritual entity, the body of Christ, made up of all believers united in faith.
Google

 

[LittleNipper]

In the Bible, "church" (Greek: ekklesia) generally refers to the people of God, the body of Christ, rather than a physical building. It signifies the gathering of believers who have been called out from the world to follow Jesus and live under his authority. The church is a spiritual entity, the body of Christ, made up of all believers united in faith.
Google

Absolutely, The CHURCH is the body of ALL worshipers of CHRIST. The congregation with which I worship CHRIST regard the edifice as a sanctuary.

 

[Daisy]

Absolutely, The CHURCH is the body of ALL worshipers of CHRIST. The congregation with which I worship CHRIST regard the edifice as a sanctuary.

So, the name of the building is irrelevant...got it...

Why the name Kingdom Hall? Public gatherings at a Kingdom Hall focus primarily on the teachings of the Bible and its central message about “the kingdom of God,” the theme of Jesus’ ministry. (Luke 4:43) So the name Kingdom Hall, which was coined in the 1930’s, appropriately describes the purpose of these buildings—to promote true worship and serve as a hub for the preaching of the “good news of the kingdom.” (Matthew 24:14) Thus, Kingdom Halls are not used for social or commercial activities. Construction, operating costs, and support expenses are funded entirely by voluntary donations. A collection plate is never passed. Rather, there is a box in a fixed location for any who wish to make a contribution.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010331

 

[tosca1]

Obeisance is not the same as worshship...one can show obeisance to someone out of respect, worship results from love...

Now, it's clear why you rely on those out-of-context memes!

On your own - you give out .......................WORD SALAD!



Do you even realize what you imply with that red-colored phrase?


I thought.......................you love JESUS.

 

[tosca1]

Obeisance is not the same as worshship...one can show obeisance to someone out of respect, worship results from love...

You're trying too hard defending your lost position.

You and JW - and all anti-Trinitarians in the forum - had already lost the battle, and the war, Daisy ...................a long time ago.
Can't you accept that?

You're stubbornly beating a dead horse.



Be careful on what you say.




Matthew 15
” 15 But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.”
16 And he said, “Are you also still without understanding?

17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled?[b]
18 But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person.

19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.
20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

 

[tosca1]

What's happenning here?


First - it was the irony in the statement made by @redbeer.

Now..........this statement coming from @Daisy.

 

[tosca1]

Do you believe what Paul said? I do...that is why there are so many splinters of Christendom because they fail to believe him...there are no splinters among the JW's...

No splinter among JWs.....................should I congratulate you for that, guys?


Your splinter seems to be from JESUS, Himself!
No big deal.

 

[redbeer]

You don't WORSHIP CHRIST, you are not a CHRISTian. And CHRIST who is in the very form GOD, doesn't regard being GOD to be stealing, but EQUALITY. You simply don't understand the verses you are quoting --- all are expressing exactly what I'm saying and you don't want to hear.

Rofl.....at least for now, the trinitarians of today only banish me from Christianity. It wasn't too long ago, I would be killed and the church would steal my land and property. Such a lovely doctrine they have taken to heart.

 

[LittleNipper]

Rofl.....at least for now, the trinitarians of today only banish me from Christianity. It wasn't too long ago, I would be killed and the church would steal my land and property. Such a lovely doctrine they have taken to heart.

That was a rather specific "denomination" in a specific era in history. And that "denomination" also murdered individuals for translating the Bible into various common languages, And made life difficult for individuals who distributed literature. And killed people for worshiping GOD differently. But that was the result of very power hungry individuals who wanted to remain in command. The very same reason behind shunning individuals who seemingly ask the wrong questions and express an awakening opinion that doesn't fit within the values of some organization to this very day. At least I never regarded anyone a pagan for not celebrating holidays. It's rather a shame such don't feel led to reciprocate, but I know why. Fear can be a terrible weight to carry.

 

[redbeer]

That was a rather specific "denomination" in a specific era in history. And that "denomination" also murdered individuals for translating the Bible into various common languages, And made life difficult for individuals who distributed literature. And killed people for worshiping GOD differently. But that was the result of very power hungry individuals who wanted to remain in command. The very same reason behind shunning individuals who seemingly ask the wrong questions and express an awakening opinion that doesn't fit within the values of some organization to this very day. At least I never regarded anyone a pagan for not celebrating holidays. It's rather a shame such don't feel led to reciprocate, but I know why. Fear can be a terrible weight to carry.

Regardless, trinitarians of today use it as a litmus test to define a Christian. One must confess Jesus is God and belief in a three person, singular being they call God. None of which is biblical, very few scriptures even show an imaginative hint of its lingo, where the large part of this massive doctrine comes from opinions of leaders through time from the hundreds of thousands of books written on the subject. They speak from these people as if it's direct from God and ignore/disregard tons of scripture to keep their idol alive and well. It must be saved and secured at all times, threats removed, ideological differences shunned and silenced, grown into an immense beast of huge worldly power and control, becoming the very thing Jesus hated......it's surreal.

 

[LittleNipper]

Regardless, trinitarians of today use it as a litmus test to define a Christian. One must confess Jesus is God and belief in a three person, singular being they call God. None of which is biblical, very few scriptures even show an imaginative hint of its lingo, where the large part of this massive doctrine comes from opinions of leaders through time from the hundreds of thousands of books written on the subject. They speak from these people as if it's direct from God and ignore/disregard tons of scripture to keep their idol alive and well. It must be saved and secured at all times, threats removed, ideological differences shunned and silenced, grown into an immense beast of huge worldly power and control, becoming the very thing Jesus hated......it's surreal.

Most if not all TRINITARIANS claim to believe the BIBLE is without error, and is the inspired Word from GOD. They are well studied, have seminaries for their leadership, and promote higher education ---- and are founders of not a few colleges, etc... Many are independent and yet have close ties with other such denominations. And TRINITARIANS also encourage voting and getting Christians in places of authority to guide our nation and not simply live in it.

 

[Daisy]