[W:148] Affirmative Action promotes systemic racial discrimination.

[Irredentist]

My opinion of black professionals (engineers, docs, and lawyers) is based mainly on my personal experiences with them. As with all racial groups, there's a pretty wide spread in the bell curve, and the black professionals have ranged from outstanding to dumb, and likewise for other racial groups. On average, I would rank it roughly a tie for whites and Asian, and noticeably lower for Hispanics and blacks. I wish that my experience didn't fit the stereotypes, but it is what it is, and it's good that there are some outstanding blacks who defy the negative stereotype.

I believe that the lesser average performance of blacks in the US is due to a combination of (in decreasing order) subculture, effects of historical discrimination, and current discrimination.

AA is fine if done in a way that provides a lot more benefit than doing harm, but many current AA programs don't meet that standard. The problem with your posts is that they highlight the harm done by AA and make black people look like they're incapable of competing based on merit and underserving of their pedigrees and high-profile positions.

I'm still waiting for some black people to chime in on this thread and offer their perspectives. A little silly to have a discussion about the situation of black people without hearing from any black people!

It isn't possible for Affirmative Action to cause a person to believe that Black people are incapable of competing with other racial groups, unless that person already believed that black people are inherently inferior to other races. Affirmative Action has always been intended to level a playing field that is heavily slanted in favor of white candidates.

 

[TurtleDude]

It isn't possible for Affirmative Action to cause a person to believe that Black people are incapable of competing with other racial groups, unless that person already believed that black people are inherently inferior to other races. Affirmative Action has always been intended to level a playing field that is heavily slanted in favor of white candidates.

no, what affirmative action does-as it is exercised- is to presume "black=disadvantaged" and "white=advantaged" no matter what the facts are. SO wealthy prep school black kids know they don't need a 4.0 and a 35 ACT to get into Harvard while middle class white kids do.

 

[LessBiased?]

It isn't possible for Affirmative Action to cause a person to believe that Black people are incapable of competing with other racial groups, unless that person already believed that black people are inherently inferior to other races. Affirmative Action has always been intended to level a playing field that is heavily slanted in favor of white candidates.

I think AA can both help level the playing field and help the players who have less skill become more skilled, but I don't think the playing field today is that unlevel, at least not in most of the country. Any meritorious black person can succeed in the US today.

Inability to compete is due to lack of education, lack of experience, lack of self-confidence, lack of motivation and work ethic, social circumstances (e.g., only one parent at home), etc., not inherent genetic inferiority. Best way to help black people is to raise their skill level and let their resumes and job positions be strong because of merit.

 

[jaeger19]

your points are generally nonsensical hypotheticals that avoid the key point

those with inferior qualifications are given advantages over those who are smarter and have better academic records SOLELY due to race. that is racial discrimination pure and simple

Yep. So?
The fact remains that 1. There is negligible harm fine to those that get passed over.
2. It is one of the few ways of reversing the effects of over 100 years of actual honest to goodness racism and discrimination in the US.

It's funny how decades if racism get shrugged away with..." life's not fair"
And " just work harder"

And then you lose your mind that a white rich kid has to go to his second choice school.

 

[jaeger19]

no, what affirmative action does-as it is exercised- is to presume "black=disadvantaged" and "white=advantaged" no matter what the facts are. SO wealthy prep school black kids know they don't need a 4.0 and a 35 ACT to get into Harvard while middle class white kids do.

Pooh.
Show me that the majority of minorities that benefit from aa are rich.
Oh wait.
"Don’t believe the myth that all of the black kids at Harvard are rich. According to William Bowen and Derek Bok’s now-classic defense of affirmative action at elite colleges, The Shape of the River, black students were seven times more likely to come from poor families than white students. Also, as you might guess, a much higher percentage of white students than black students fell into the top socioeconomic category (44 percent for whites, 15 percent for blacks)."

'All the Black Kids at Harvard Are Rich,' and Other Dangerous Myths About Affirmative Action (Opinion)

Should colleges prioritize racial or class diversity? It isn't actually an either/or choice, writes education professor Julie J. Park.

www.edweek.org

 

[jaeger19]

I think AA can both help level the playing field and help the players who have less skill become more skilled, but I don't think the playing field today is that unlevel, at least not in most of the country. Any meritorious black person can succeed in the US today.

Inability to compete is due to lack of education, lack of experience, lack of self-confidence, lack of motivation and work ethic, social circumstances (e.g., only one parent at home), etc., not inherent genetic inferiority. Best way to help black people is to raise their skill level and let their resumes and job positions be strong because of merit.

How do you " raise their skill level"

 

[ttwtt78640]

How do you " raise their skill level"

By starting long before college admission time. Step one - end social promotion (adding a year of age gets one into the next grade level classes) which eventually leads to many ‘participation’ HS diplomas.

 

[LessBiased?]

How do you " raise their skill level"

All the things that have been discussed. And it all starts in the home, at a young age.

 

[Glitch]

It isn't possible for Affirmative Action to cause a person to believe that Black people are incapable of competing with other racial groups, unless that person already believed that black people are inherently inferior to other races. Affirmative Action has always been intended to level a playing field that is heavily slanted in favor of white candidates.

That fact that you think there are "racial groups" demonstrates your bigotry. No wonder you support the bigoted Affirmative Action. It isn't just blacks either. Affirmative Action demeans all minorities and all women by telling them that they are incapable of making in society without government assistance. Affirmative Action tells all minorities and women that they lack the ability to function in society without special help from government. Affirmative Action is as demeaning, degrading, and misogynistic as it gets, exactly as the Democratic Party intended.

 

[jaeger19]

All the things that have been discussed. And it all starts in the home, at a young age.

Okay..
So how do you plan to start in the home at a young age.
Let's hear your plan

 

[jaeger19]

By starting long before college admission time. Step one - end social promotion (adding a year of age gets one into the next grade level classes) which eventually leads to many ‘participation’ HS diplomas.

Okay.. so you want to hold kids back. Okay..how does that work. ?

 

[jaeger19]

That fact that you think there are "racial groups" demonstrates your bigotry. No wonder you support the bigoted Affirmative Action. It isn't just blacks either. Affirmative Action demeans all minorities and all women by telling them that they are incapable of making in society without government assistance. Affirmative Action tells all minorities and women that they lack the ability to function in society without special help from government. Affirmative Action is as demeaning, degrading, and misogynistic as it gets, exactly as the Democratic Party intended.

You realize that affirmativee action does no such thing right?

 

[Glitch]

You realize that affirmativee action does no such thing right?

Of course it does, and the worst part is that Democrats further stigmatizes all minorities and women by automatically placing them under the Affirmative Action umbrella, whether they want it or not. Which is why Kamala Harris will be remembered throughout history as the first Affirmative Action VP, just like Obama will be remembered for being the first Affirmative Action President. They didn't achieve those offices by merit, they achieved them through government handouts because they lacked the ability to function in a free society. That is the message the Democratic Party is sending to every minority and every woman in the US with their Affirmative Action bigotry and misogyny.

 

[LessBiased?]

Okay..
So how do you plan to start in the home at a young age.
Let's hear your plan

Two parents in the home, live in a safe neighborhood with decent schools, family emphasis on education and hard work, make use of inexpensive and free online resources and public libraries, aim high, never think of yourself as a victim, etc.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Okay.. so you want to hold kids back. Okay..how does that work. ?

No, I want kids to actually learn the material being taught at their current grade level. If doing so is not required to advance to the next grade level (eventually getting a HS diploma) then why bother learning it?

 

[LessBiased?]

Of course it does, and the worst part is that Democrats further stigmatizes all minorities and women by automatically placing them under the Affirmative Action umbrella, whether they want it or not. Which is why Kamala Harris will be remembered throughout history as the first Affirmative Action VP, just like Obama will be remembered for being the first Affirmative Action President. They didn't achieve those offices by merit, they achieved them through government handouts because they lacked the ability to function in a free society. That is the message the Democratic Party is sending to every minority and every woman in the US with their Affirmative Action bigotry and misogyny.

Obama won the election and re-election on merit, no AA for him. You can go far when you're smart, articulate, and have a good temperment.

Harris was a VP tag-along with Biden, so yes, AA for her.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Two parents in the home, live in a safe neighborhood with decent schools, family emphasis on education and hard work, make use of inexpensive and free online resources and public libraries, aim high, never think of yourself as a victim, etc.

Living in such an environment obviously helps a lot, but is not something that a child in a living in a single parent household, unsafe neighborhood or assigned to attend a less than decent school has any control over.

 

[LessBiased?]

Living in such an environment obviously helps a lot, but is not something that a child in a living in a single parent household, unsafe neighborhood or assigned to attend a less than decent school has any control over.

Agreed. The responsibility for providing a supportive environment for kids falls on the parents, that's the main job of parenting - and I've learned over the years that it's often not an easy job!

 

[ttwtt78640]

Agreed. The responsibility for providing a supportive environment for kids falls on the parents, that's the main job of parenting - and I've learned over the years that it's often not an easy job!

OK, but what of the other (absent and/or uncooperative) parent, unsafe neighborhoods and less than decent local schools?

 

[LessBiased?]

OK, but what of the other (absent and/or uncooperative) parent, unsafe neighborhoods and less than decent local schools?

Regarding parenting, I say don't get knocked up if both parents aren't going to be there for the kid. Where this is particularly a problem in the black community, they need to change the culture to discourage this practice.

Unsafe neighborhoods may require more police presence, but there's also a cultural aspect to that.

Schools should be funded as needed to provide solid education everywhere, with good teachers incentivized to work in schools.

 

[Irredentist]

Two parents in the home, live in a safe neighborhood with decent schools, family emphasis on education and hard work, make use of inexpensive and free online resources and public libraries, aim high, never think of yourself as a victim, etc.

And what about all of the children who don't have two parents, or a supportive family, who don't live in a safe neighborhood with easy access to inexpensive or free resources? Are you just going to write them off as failures because their circumstances don't measure up to your exacting standards?

 

[LessBiased?]

And what about all of the children who don't have two parents, or a supportive family, who don't live in a safe neighborhood with easy access to inexpensive or free resources? Are you just going to write them off as failures because their circumstances don't measure up to your exacting standards?

Of course that's a problem for all races, so the answer isn't AA, it would have to be other forms of support. The problem exists in part because we live in a capitalist society and many people are content to let those who are struggling at the bottom live crappy lives. I personally would be happy to see a greater share of the considerable taxes I pay go towards providing more help to the poor, kids in broken homes, etc.

 

[Irredentist]

Of course that's a problem for all races, so the answer isn't AA, it would have to be other forms of support. The problem exists in part because we live in a capitalist society and many people are content to let those who are struggling at the bottom live crappy lives. I personally would be happy to see a greater share of the considerable taxes I pay go towards providing more help to the poor, kids in broken homes, etc.

But you have already acknowledged that these problems affect black communities disproportionately. Black people do not exist as the perpetual underclass of your capitalist society by accident. It is by design and intention that they have been put there, to the benefit of white people. You fail to acknowledge the role that government has played in creating and perpetuating this state of affairs, or their responsibility to redress it.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Regarding parenting, I say don't get knocked up if both parents aren't going to be there for the kid. Where this is particularly a problem in the black community, they need to change the culture to discourage this practice.

Unsafe neighborhoods may require more police presence, but there's also a cultural aspect to that.

Schools should be funded as needed to provide solid education everywhere, with good teachers incentivized to work in schools.

You keep saying what should be, yet not how to change “the culture” or what government provides especially without *gasp* raising taxes.

 

[TurtleDude]

Pooh.
Show me that the majority of minorities that benefit from aa are rich.
Oh wait.
"Don’t believe the myth that all of the black kids at Harvard are rich. According to William Bowen and Derek Bok’s now-classic defense of affirmative action at elite colleges, The Shape of the River, black students were seven times more likely to come from poor families than white students. Also, as you might guess, a much higher percentage of white students than black students fell into the top socioeconomic category (44 percent for whites, 15 percent for blacks)."

'All the Black Kids at Harvard Are Rich,' and Other Dangerous Myths About Affirmative Action (Opinion)

Should colleges prioritize racial or class diversity? It isn't actually an either/or choice, writes education professor Julie J. Park.

www.edweek.org

I already posted proof that more than 3/4 blacks at harvard came from wealthy backgrounds .