[W:148] Affirmative Action promotes systemic racial discrimination.

[jaeger19]

You didn’t answer any of my questions.

Yeah I did.
Again.. you just don;t know what they heck you are talking about.

 

[LessBiased?]

Yeah I did.
Again.. you just don;t know what they heck you are talking about.

I gave up engaging with you before, and made the mistake of trying again. I’ll say again: your poor arguments are hurting the cause of reducing racism.

 

[TurtleDude]

translation: the retarded posts of yours that I've kicked the shit out for pages and pages cant be back up with andy facts that make them true LMAO
watch again ZERO facts will be provided making them true about me lying and the flase claims you made up

I don't think even YOU believe the bullshit you spew.

 

[TurtleDude]

Sweet baby jesus.
You stated :

You stated that the bottom of the class at HARVARD. As long as they "didn't get in because of AA:
and I pointed out:
In other words.. a person with a 3.0 GPA from harvard but had 508 on the MCAT (considered a minimal "good" score) was fine.
BUT a person with a 3.0GPA from harvard but had a 500 on the MCAT (and needed a bump from AA).. was NOT FINE.

Its like at this point you don;t even know what you are writing.

do you ever worry that affirmative action at schools such as Harvard, tarnishes the degrees of blacks who attended those institutions when blacks were getting huge reductions in standards to get in?

 

[Logician Man]

I don't think even YOU believe the bullshit you spew.

A stellar display^ as to just how flawed your bullshit thinking is. Smart people understand when debating, the wise course is to speak/think for one's self, and let the opposition do the same. Otherwise, one is merely babbling to one's self, which is foolish.

 

[TurtleDude]

A stellar display^ as to just how flawed your bullshit thinking is. Smart people understand when debating, the wise course is to speak/think for one's self, and let the opposition do the same. Otherwise, one is merely babbling to one's self, which is foolish.

tell us what causes your obsession with my posts. You constantly contradict the stupid rules you try to impose on others and your childish posts almost always fail to meet the requirements you think proper debating protocol should create

 

[Logician Man]

You constantly contradict the stupid rules you. try to impose>>>>

Smart people here at DP understand it is DP staff who make/enforce/impose the rules in this forum---not non-staff DP members. You're welcome.

 

[TurtleDude]

Smart people here at DP understand it is DP staff who make/enforce/impose the rules in this forum---not non-staff DP members. You're welcome.

Then you should realize that your stupid debate rules don't mean squat here

 

[Logician Man]

Then you should realize that your stupid debate rules don't mean squat here

Try really hard to focus, TurtleDude. I clearly stated non-staff DP members "do not" make rules here at DP, which is a 'statement of fact' you can't dispute with babbling bullshit/bovine excrement, or incessant, childish whining.

 

[TurtleDude]

Try really hard to focus, TurtleDude. I clearly stated non-staff DP members "do not" make rules here at DP, which is a 'statement of fact' you can't dispute with babbling bullshit/bovine excrement, or incessant, childish whining.

then you should stop telling people what debate rules are. You constantly tell others that if they don't meet your childish standards-their posts are "dismissed". So you are doing exactly what you don't claim you do. In other words-lying

 

[jaeger19]

I gave up engaging with you before, and made the mistake of trying again. I’ll say again: your poor arguments are hurting the cause of reducing racism.

Look I get that you want to extricate yourself from a debate you lost at every turn.
It's obviously hard for you to admit your bias is illogical.
I've established that you had no understanding of the effect of institutional racism on generational wealth and the importance of generational wealth in upward mobility.
I've established that your racial meme on " its there choices" has no merit since your statistics depend on the number of children being born and the number of children born to wed mothers. Both of which have declined.
And it's based on the faulty assumption that an unmarried mother is the sole parent.
For example my divorced friend' s kids..whose mother doesnt live with them..are considered fatherless.. when they are clearly not.
I established that these black students getting into harvard who you claim are unqualified at .Harvard. graduate at 97.4%.. while whites at 97.9%.
I pointed out your intellectual disconnect concerning that you would not want a doctor at the bottom of the class..
When in a class of 100..you would be okay with number 50..but if that same class was just 50..suddenly you would not be okay with number 50. Even tough it's the same guy!
Then you claimed you would be okay with a doctor who graduated near the bottom of the class at Harvard " but not if they got in by aa".
And I pointed out that the position in class is determined by gpa..GPA.. in performance in med classes..
So the it doesn't matter their score for acceptance.
And yes you ridiculous dude the grading requirements are the same since it's the same school Harvard taking the same med classes.

 

[jaeger19]

do you ever worry that affirmative action at schools such as Harvard, tarnishes the degrees of blacks who attended those institutions when blacks were getting huge reductions in standards to get in?

No. Only racist fools would think that the degree is tarnished.
Your quality of the degree is based on the rigorousness of the schooling AT THAT SCHOOL. NOT THE ENTRANCE CRITERIA.

If a person graduates from med school with a 3.0.. whether they got in with a 700 sat or a 1600 is now moot.
Their knowledge is at a 3.0 level regardless of entrance score.
Anyone with at least a link of sense understands that.
Only racists who are looking for a justification for their racism don't want to understand that.
And frankly..nothing is going to make a difference for them...they are the reason minorities need programs like AA.

 

[TurtleDude]

No. Only racist fools would think that the degree is tarnished.
Your quality of the degree is based on the rigorousness of the schooling AT THAT SCHOOL. NOT THE ENTRANCE CRITERIA.

If a person graduates from med school with a 3.0.. whether they got in with a 700 sat or a 1600 is now moot.
Their knowledge is at a 3.0 level regardless of entrance score.
Anyone with at least a link of sense understands that.
Only racists who are looking for a justification for their racism don't want to understand that.
And frankly..nothing is going to make a difference for them...they are the reason minorities need programs like AA.

really? only racist fools. let me find something I posted on this board -years ago.

why do blacks who get affirmative action into wealth prep schools and then places like Harvard still need affirmative action to get into the law or medical school?

 

[jaeger19]

really? only racist fools. let me find something I posted on this board -years ago.

why do blacks who get affirmative action into wealth prep schools and then places like Harvard still need affirmative action to get into the law or medical school?

Hey look..don't get mad that I pointed out your racial bias. If you got a 3.0 at Harvard it doesn't matter your entrance score. .
There is no tarnishing the degree by entrance score.
Why do minorities still need help to get into med school etc.?
Well because they still face institutional racism to get in .. in the form of biased tests like mcat gre or lsat.
Financial barriers.. etc. Even racism within simply grading.

Reducing grading bias against Black students

A perennial complaint about holding students accountable through grades and test scores is that these mechanisms are biased against already disadvantaged students.

fordhaminstitute.org

In the study papers were given to teachers to grade and the papers only differed based on whether the student had a black sounding name or a white sounding name.
The black sounding names were graded more harshly.

 

[LessBiased?]

Look I get that you want to extricate yourself from a debate you lost at every turn.
It's obviously hard for you to admit your bias is illogical.
I've established that you had no understanding of the effect of institutional racism on generational wealth and the importance of generational wealth in upward mobility.
I've established that your racial meme on " its there choices" has no merit since your statistics depend on the number of children being born and the number of children born to wed mothers. Both of which have declined.
And it's based on the faulty assumption that an unmarried mother is the sole parent.
For example my divorced friend' s kids..whose mother doesnt live with them..are considered fatherless.. when they are clearly not.
I established that these black students getting into harvard who you claim are unqualified at .Harvard. graduate at 97.4%.. while whites at 97.9%.
I pointed out your intellectual disconnect concerning that you would not want a doctor at the bottom of the class..
When in a class of 100..you would be okay with number 50..but if that same class was just 50..suddenly you would not be okay with number 50. Even tough it's the same guy!
Then you claimed you would be okay with a doctor who graduated near the bottom of the class at Harvard " but not if they got in by aa".
And I pointed out that the position in class is determined by gpa..GPA.. in performance in med classes..
So the it doesn't matter their score for acceptance.
And yes you ridiculous dude the grading requirements are the same since it's the same school Harvard taking the same med classes.

You seem like a rich white guy who wants his black sons to get every advantage, wants to rationalize that to himself, and feels a need to 'win' debates on online forums. There's no point 'debating' with you because you misunderstand and misrepresent what your perceived 'opponents' say, and you have very strong biases.

For me, the saddest thing is that you've made my view of AA more negative and have made me a lot more inclined to suspect that a black person with a pedigreed resume or a high-profile job got there because they're black rather than on merit. You are inadvertently promoting anti-black racism with your poor arguments and justifications for lowered standards for black people. If I was black, I might feel insulted.

 

[TurtleDude]

Look I get that you want to extricate yourself from a debate you lost at every turn.
It's obviously hard for you to admit your bias is illogical.
I've established that you had no understanding of the effect of institutional racism on generational wealth and the importance of generational wealth in upward mobility.
I've established that your racial meme on " its there choices" has no merit since your statistics depend on the number of children being born and the number of children born to wed mothers. Both of which have declined.
And it's based on the faulty assumption that an unmarried mother is the sole parent.
For example my divorced friend' s kids..whose mother doesnt live with them..are considered fatherless.. when they are clearly not.
I established that these black students getting into harvard who you claim are unqualified at .Harvard. graduate at 97.4%.. while whites at 97.9%.
I pointed out your intellectual disconnect concerning that you would not want a doctor at the bottom of the class..
When in a class of 100..you would be okay with number 50..but if that same class was just 50..suddenly you would not be okay with number 50. Even tough it's the same guy!
Then you claimed you would be okay with a doctor who graduated near the bottom of the class at Harvard " but not if they got in by aa".
And I pointed out that the position in class is determined by gpa..GPA.. in performance in med classes..
So the it doesn't matter their score for acceptance.
And yes you ridiculous dude the grading requirements are the same since it's the same school Harvard taking the same med classes.

you miss the point-it is them getting in ahead of better qualified candidates that is the problem. not that they may graduate at the same rates as whites.

BTW here you go

do you know who affirmative action really demeans?

many many years ago-Yale seniors who had been nominated by a faculty member for a Marshall or Rhodes scholarship were told to report to a meeting which featured four graduate students who had earned marshall or Rhodes scholarships. One of the guys was a medical student who had a Rhodes. One of the guys sitting next to me whispered in my ear-yeah we know how that guy got a Rhodes. Well I tended to believe him. But on the way out I saw this guy was by himself so I went up and introduced myself to him and we talked. He had been rather quiet at the meeting and while he had given some good advice, he wasn't nearly as talkative as the three other guys-those three had been Yale undergrads too. Well the guy had the best resume I had seen including phi beta kappa in molecular biology or something like that at Princeton, an All american in track and he worked at a hospital while going to school. He was the most qualified guy in the room. And I remember him saying to me that he worked his butt off because he didn't want anyone he might encounter as a patient thinking he had a Yale MD only because he was black. and its guys like him who affirmative action really hurts.

Hey look..don't get mad that I pointed out your racial bias. If you got a 3.0 at Harvard it doesn't matter your entrance score. .
There is no tarnishing the degree by entrance score.
Why do minorities still need help to get into med school etc.?
Well because they still face institutional racism to get in .. in the form of biased tests like mcat gre or lsat.
Financial barriers.. etc. Even racism within simply grading.

Reducing grading bias against Black students

A perennial complaint about holding students accountable through grades and test scores is that these mechanisms are biased against already disadvantaged students.

fordhaminstitute.org

In the study papers were given to teachers to grade and the papers only differed based on whether the student had a black sounding name or a white sounding name.
The black sounding names were graded more harshly.

what racial bias? it is you who are saying blacks cannot meet the standards set for whites or Asians.

tell me why someone who attends a rich prep school and then Harvard, needs lower standards to get into Harvard law because they are black

 

[jaeger19]

you miss the point-it is them getting in ahead of better qualified candidates that is the problem. not that they may graduate at the same rates as whites.

BTW here you go



what racial bias? it is you who are saying blacks cannot meet the standards set for whites or Asians.

tell me why someone who attends a rich prep school and then Harvard, needs lower standards to get into Harvard law because they are black

Sweet Baby Jesus. If blacks graduate at the same rates as whites.and yet they have lower entrance criteria..it means that the entrance criteria is not a valid measure of whether they can do the work to graduate.

Second. Institutional racism doesn't miracously stop at the undergraduate level.

 

[jaeger19]

you miss the point-it is them getting in ahead of better qualified candidates that is the problem. not that they may graduate at the same rates as whites.

BTW here you go



what racial bias? it is you who are saying blacks cannot meet the standards set for whites or Asians.

tell me why someone who attends a rich prep school and then Harvard, needs lower standards to get into Harvard law because they are black

You seem like a rich white guy who wants his black sons to get every advantage, wants to rationalize that to himself, and feels a need to 'win' debates on online forums. There's no point 'debating' with you because you misunderstand and misrepresent what your perceived 'opponents' say, and you have very strong biases.

For me, the saddest thing is that you've made my view of AA more negative and have made me a lot more inclined to suspect that a black person with a pedigreed resume or a high-profile job got there because they're black rather than on merit. You are inadvertently promoting anti-black racism with your poor arguments and justifications for lowered standards for black people. If I was black, I might feel insulted.

Naw..stop the bs. I pointed out logic and facts.. .
But go ahead tell me how pointing out that institutionalized racism affects generational wealth and thus affects things like going to college..
Made your view of aa negative.
Please explain in detail how pointing out the statistics on out of wedlock births depends on how many births there are and how many children are born to married mothers. And how both are declining..
Explain how that fact has caused you to have a more negative view of aa?
Explain to me..how pointing out that if you graduate from Harvard with a 3.0 gpa..GPA.. doesn't matter your entrance score was 1000 or 1600 makes you more likely to believe that a black Co worker got there without merit?

So let's hear your rationale.

 

[LessBiased?]

Naw..stop the bs. I pointed out logic and facts.. .
But go ahead tell me how pointing out that institutionalized racism affects generational wealth and thus affects things like going to college..
Made your view of aa negative.
Please explain in detail how pointing out the statistics on out of wedlock births depends on how many births there are and how many children are born to married mothers. And how both are declining..
Explain how that fact has caused you to have a more negative view of aa?
Explain to me..how pointing out that if you graduate from Harvard with a 3.0 gpa..GPA.. doesn't matter your entrance score was 1000 or 1600 makes you more likely to believe that a black Co worker got there without merit?

So let's hear your rationale.

All of that has been discussed and the arguments went past you.

 

[jaeger19]

All of that has been discussed and the arguments went past you.

No you did not.
Look I get it. Bigotry is by definition the unreasonable or obstinate attachment to a belief or position regardless of facts.
Your arguments were illogical and shown to be so.

 

[LessBiased?]

No you did not.
Look I get it. Bigotry is by definition the unreasonable or obstinate attachment to a belief or position regardless of facts.
Your arguments were illogical and shown to be so.

LOL, you're the judge of the debate and have declared yourself victorious ...

You seem like a hypercompetitive person.

 

[Irredentist]

You seem like a rich white guy who wants his black sons to get every advantage, wants to rationalize that to himself, and feels a need to 'win' debates on online forums. There's no point 'debating' with you because you misunderstand and misrepresent what your perceived 'opponents' say, and you have very strong biases.

For me, the saddest thing is that you've made my view of AA more negative and have made me a lot more inclined to suspect that a black person with a pedigreed resume or a high-profile job got there because they're black rather than on merit. You are inadvertently promoting anti-black racism with your poor arguments and justifications for lowered standards for black people. If I was black, I might feel insulted.

If the opinions of a "rich white guy" on the internet can cause you to become suspicious of black professionals, then your opinion of black professionals must not have been very high in the first place.

 

[jaeger19]

LOL, you're the judge of the debate and have declared yourself victorious ...

You seem like a hypercompetitive person.

Naw.. I just see that you have no rebuttal for the points I have laid out.

 

[TurtleDude]

Naw.. I just see that you have no rebuttal for the points I have laid out.

your points are generally nonsensical hypotheticals that avoid the key point

those with inferior qualifications are given advantages over those who are smarter and have better academic records SOLELY due to race. that is racial discrimination pure and simple

 

[LessBiased?]

If the opinions of a "rich white guy" on the internet can cause you to become suspicious of black professionals, then your opinion of black professionals must not have been very high in the first place.

My opinion of black professionals (engineers, docs, and lawyers) is based mainly on my personal experiences with them. As with all racial groups, there's a pretty wide spread in the bell curve, and the black professionals have ranged from outstanding to dumb, and likewise for other racial groups. On average, I would rank it roughly a tie for whites and Asian, and noticeably lower for Hispanics and blacks. I wish that my experience didn't fit the stereotypes, but it is what it is, and it's good that there are some outstanding blacks who defy the negative stereotype.

I believe that the lesser average performance of blacks in the US is due to a combination of (in decreasing order) subculture, effects of historical discrimination, and current discrimination.

AA is fine if done in a way that provides a lot more benefit than doing harm, but many current AA programs don't meet that standard. The problem with your posts is that they highlight the harm done by AA and make black people look like they're incapable of competing based on merit and underserving of their pedigrees and high-profile positions.

I'm still waiting for some black people to chime in on this thread and offer their perspectives. A little silly to have a discussion about the situation of black people without hearing from any black people!