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Votes after nov 3 - should them be counted?

TomFitz said:
Mail in and absentee ballots come in envelopes with prepaid postage.
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Oh well, then the courts will have to decide whether this means election day has continued in Pennsylvania past the date mandated by Congress.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Why not?

Each state makes it's own rules, and the Fed's have very little control over them outside of the civil rights of the individual voter.
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Fact Check True.

Ballots postmarked after the state's deadline should not be counted.
Ballots postmarked before the state's deadline should be counted.

Then you get into the decision of the PA judge, which appears to be usurping the PA state legislature's pass law, by extending the postmark date of ballots ordered to be accepted, which SCOTUS supported.

How is it that a state judge gets to re-write the legislature's law on the fly?
 
Athanasius68 said:
The order allowed people to do that.
That was the legal issue.
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No it didn't. No vote cast after election day is counted. The mail in ballots have to be post marked and sent by election day, they can be counted later. This has always been the case. You know the difference yet you lie because you have an agenda.
 
By law in PA. mailed in ballots could not counted until 11pm on election day. That means if all ballots had to be counted on election day PA. officials had 1 hour to count them.

This was just another dirty trick by the Republican legislators in PA...

Yet it's the Trumpsters who keep screaming about fudging the vote count...
 
RabidAlpaca said:
No it didn't. No vote cast after election day is counted. The mail in ballots have to be post marked and sent by election day, they can be counted later. This has always been the case. You know the difference yet you lie because you have an agenda.
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That is false. The PA court was clear-- the board of elections is to presume that non postmarked ballots received after election day was mailed prior to election day. Unless there was clear proof it was not.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
By law in PA. mailed in ballots could not counted until 11pm on election day. That means if all ballots had to be counted on election day PA. officials had 1 hour to count them.

This was just another dirty trick by the Republican legislators in PA...

Yet it's the Trumpsters who keep screaming about fudging the vote count...
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That law was changed earlier this year.
By the legislature. A power the Constitution expressly grants to them the authority to do.
 
Athanasius68 said:
That is false. The PA court was clear-- the board of elections is to presume that non postmarked ballots received after election day was mailed prior to election day. Unless there was clear proof it was not.
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False. You lie because you have an agenda.
 
Depends on the laws of the state where they were cast.
 
Athanasius68 said:
That isn't necessarily true. One of the objections in Pennsylvania is that the courts there ordered that unpostmarked ballots that are received after election day to be treated asif they had been mailed prior to.
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And there's a reason for that. If a vote arrives on e.g. Wednesday, with no postmark because USPS didn't run 10s of thousands of ballots through the machines to save time (that's apparently what happened in many places), what should election officials assume about that vote? That it was mailed late (i.e. on Wednesday) past the deadline, or that it was mailed timely? For military ballots in PA, they assume any ballot without a postmark (because USPS screwed up a simple job) is treated as if timely mailed, to give the benefit of the doubt to the voter. Should different rules apply to the military and regular people? Why?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Provide a non blog source.
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That was the ruling. I explained part of it above, but there has to be presumption - presumed late or timely mailed, if no postmark or it's illegible. The court ruled the benefit of the doubt goes to the voter and counting the vote. Those are the same rules PA uses for overseas ballots including for the military, the same presumption in favor of the voter, but the military get a week past the election to get their votes to the right place, which is fine and good all around.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Oh well, then the courts will have to decide whether this means election day has continued in Pennsylvania past the date mandated by Congress.
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They have decided. The PA supreme court issued its ruling, and the SCOTUS twice (I believe) declined to hear and possibly overturn that opinion.
 
MaryP said:
I think I heard

Quit saying that until it's been declared! I am waiting for the big moment, church bells ringing, horns blowing, confetti floating...
And you're the thousandth poster today who has sent me rushing to the election results only to find it's not called. Or declared. Or whatever you call it.
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Biden is now 14,512 votes ahead in PA...
 
JasperL said:
And there's a reason for that. If a vote arrives on e.g. Wednesday, with no postmark because USPS didn't run 10s of thousands of ballots through the machines to save time (that's apparently what happened in many places), what should election officials assume about that vote? That it was mailed late (i.e. on Wednesday) past the deadline, or that it was mailed timely? For military ballots in PA, they assume any ballot without a postmark (because USPS screwed up a simple job) is treated as if timely mailed, to give the benefit of the doubt to the voter. Should different rules apply to the military and regular people? Why?
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If that's the law, that's the law.
The power to determine how electors are chosen is expressly vested with the state legislature.
 
JasperL said:
They have decided. The PA supreme court issued its ruling, and the SCOTUS twice (I believe) declined to hear and possibly overturn that opinion.
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Yes-- SCOTUS declined to hear it. Doesnt mean they won't decide to do so should it become an actual issue.

Can the PA courts assume a power expressly given by the USA Constitution to the PA legislature? If the context was anything different, we all the answer would be "no."
 
RabidAlpaca said:
False. You lie because you have an agenda.
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I sent a link as requested.
From CNN.
I am correct on this.
The only issue is whether those ballots would make a difference. If they dont, then it's moot.
 
Athanasius68 said:
If that's the law, that's the law.
The power to determine how electors are chosen is expressly vested with the state legislature.
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Yes, and in this country the courts have a responsibility to balance rights in the constitution, in this case the PA constitution and the right to vote, with provisions of laws passed by the legislature. The ACA is an example - Congress passed it, and the Roberts court amended part of it relating to Medicaid. Who gave the SCOTUS the power to legislate? No one but they do have the power to amend laws if they conflict with the constitution, in whole or in part. Nothing different with what the PA court did.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Yes-- SCOTUS declined to hear it. Doesnt mean they won't decide to do so should it become an actual issue.

Can the PA courts assume a power expressly given by the USA Constitution to the PA legislature? If the context was anything different, we all the answer would be "no."
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If SCOTUS takes it up now, and does anything but rubber stamp the PA court's decision, they'll be forcing PA to discard votes cast by people relying on that decision, the law as it was when they cast their votes. I can't see that happening unless the conservative wing just don't even pretend to give a shit about voting rights in this country and will stomp a mudhole in them if it helps the GOP, which I don't think will happen.
 
JasperL said:
If SCOTUS takes it up now, and does anything but rubber stamp the PA court's decision, they'll be forcing PA to discard votes cast by people relying on that decision, the law as it was when they cast their votes. I can't see that happening unless the conservative wing just don't even pretend to give a shit about voting rights in this country and will stomp a mudhole in them if it helps the GOP, which I don't think will happen.
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And if they don't take it up, then they they are betraying their oath for applying justice impartially (assuming those votes could make an electoral difference (which is a reason why the EC is the better way of electing a president)).
Which is also why it was a mistake for SCOTUS to decline to take up the Pennsylvania complaint.
 
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