Virginia governor faces backlash over comments supporting late-term abortion bill

[Anthony60]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html

"[Third trimester abortions are] done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that's nonviable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen," Northam, a pediatric neurosurgeon, told Washington radio station WTOP. "The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."

I didn't see a thread on this, so please merge if there is one...
This is just absolutely shocking to me. I know people have their views on abortion, and where it should be limited to. Usually around the end of the first trimester. NY State just passed a bill that allows the life to be destroyed right up to birth. And, incredibly, those that voted for this felt the need to actually cheer at this horror. My God, what evil have we brought upon this country?

 

[Felis Leo]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/31/politics/ralph-northam-third-trimester-abortion/index.html

"[Third trimester abortions are] done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that's nonviable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen," Northam, a pediatric neurosurgeon, told Washington radio station WTOP. "The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother."

I didn't see a thread on this, so please merge if there is one...
This is just absolutely shocking to me. I know people have their views on abortion, and where it should be limited to. Usually around the end of the first trimester. NY State just passed a bill that allows the life to be destroyed right up to birth. And, incredibly, those that voted for this felt the need to actually cheer at this horror. My God, what evil have we brought upon this country?

Speaking as someone who is nominally pro-choice, I think this bill and the philosophy behind it is truly the first step on the short road to legalized infanticide. And where making such a claim a few short years ago may have been morally shocking to most people, I am given to wonder if the coming generation of pro-choice advocates will care if parents choose to snuff out the life of their children even after birth.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Speaking as someone who is nominally pro-choice, I think this bill, and the philosophy behind it is truly the first step on the short road to legalized infanticide. And where making such a claim a few short years ago may have been morally shocking to most people, I am given to wonder if the coming generation of pro-choice advocates will care if parents choose to snuff out the life of their children even after birth.

You are supposed to use the phrase "fully empowered women" not "legalized infanticide" to describe ending the life of inconvenient infants which can not be prohibited under the Constitutional concept of "privacy". The SCOTUS may have implied that there is a "viability" line yet that is, after all, simply the lower limit (before which abortion on demand may not be denied).

 

[Hatuey]

There is no need for this bill. People should just wait until after the birth, claim religious beliefs, and deny medical assistance to their grown children like many Christian fundamentalists do.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

 

[Jezcoe]

Does the State have a say in a family's decision to take someone off of life support?

 

[Hatuey]

Does the State have a say in a family's decision to take someone off of life support?

Lol that is the ONLY time we should have power to take 'life', oh, and the death penalty, oh and when some guy is selling ciggies for 50 cents and some diminutive cop is threatened by him, oh and when it's a journalist saying mean things about another government, oh and when we think the people being bombed may or may not be terrorist, but those are the ONLY times, bro.

Welcome to Xtian Chic.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

 

[Anthony60]

Speaking as someone who is nominally pro-choice, I think this bill and the philosophy behind it is truly the first step on the short road to legalized infanticide. And where making such a claim a few short years ago may have been morally shocking to most people, I am given to wonder if the coming generation of pro-choice advocates will care if parents choose to snuff out the life of their children even after birth.

That is what the Governor of Virginia seems to be saying, that if the infant is born, the mother can still "have a conversation" with the doctor about, what is by any definition I know of, committing a murder.

But, now, we have States that are actually legalizing killing that life, right up until birth. Is that what the pro abortion people always wanted? Well, you've now got that in this country now.

 

[Sampson Simpson]

It's funny, every right wing idiot ran with this nonsense. He said no such thing, I actually listened. Even the bolded word does not say kiil the baby. He was clearly talking about a baby being born with severe health issues and the parents and the doctors deciding together how to proceed, meaning, do they continue life support or take extraordinary measures to keep the baby alive that has no quality of life

Posted this on another thread about this, but some religious people are really sick. They are against pulling life support of brain dead people, they should just be stuck in this vegetative state forever,. They would rather see a sick baby with no quality of life suffer immensely by being artificially kept alive than the doctors pulling life support, they would rather see a baby born than a mother die from complications from the pregnancy due to health concerns. THey fight against assisted suicide for terminally ill patients and would rather have them die a slow, painful death where they wither away to bone and in the end ultimately die from overdose of the pain medications anyway

Truly sick people

 

[Neomalthusian]

It's funny, every right wing idiot ran with this nonsense. He said no such thing, I actually listened. He was clearly talking about a baby being born with severe health issues and the parents and the doctors deciding together how to proceed.

Posted this on another thread about this, but some religious people are really sick.

Good for them. This bill suggests allowing late term abortions of viable babies to prevent mental illness that the baby being born would allegedly cause, does it not?

They would rather see a sick baby with no quality of life

Would this bill allow the late-term abortion of healthy babies, if it were alleged that having the baby would negatively affect the mother's mental health? Yes/No?

If the answer to the question is yes, you actually have no real justification in attacking the pro-life crowd on this one. If the answer is no, then a lot of media sources are getting it wrong and this fact needs to be explicitly clarified.

 

[Praxas]

Speaking as someone who is nominally pro-choice, I think this bill and the philosophy behind it is truly the first step on the short road to legalized infanticide. And where making such a claim a few short years ago may have been morally shocking to most people, I am given to wonder if the coming generation of pro-choice advocates will care if parents choose to snuff out the life of their children even after birth.

You act like this is a common occurrence when the VAST MAJORITY (over 98%) of abortions are done before 24 weeks. Go right on ahead and name for us the amount of abortions that happened at the 9 1/2 month mark and why if you are soo concerned with "legalized infanticide". Can you get anymore melodramatic and hyperbolic there? Wait, I'm sure you can.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Trump's comments on this were surprisingly politically thoughtful and non-judgmental:

"I'm surprised that he did that. I've met him a number of times," Trump said of the governor's comments.

"This is going to lift up the whole pro-life movement like maybe it's never been lifted up before," he told the outlet. "The pro-life movement is very much a 50-50, it's a very 50-50 issue, actually it's gained a point or two over the years."

"I think this will very much lift up the issue because people have never thought of it in those terms," Trump added.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Another thing I really don't understand about this bill is this:

With the new composition of the Supreme Court, why would any pro-choice legislator or governor be actively trying to rock the boat with provocative things like this? It just seems to maximize the chances that a case would be brought before the Supreme Court that could threaten Roe v. Wade. What are you doing? Play defense.

 

[Hicup]

It's funny, every right wing idiot ran with this nonsense. He said no such thing, I actually listened. Even the bolded word does not say kiil the baby. He was clearly talking about a baby being born with severe health issues and the parents and the doctors deciding together how to proceed, meaning, do they continue life support or take extraordinary measures to keep the baby alive that has no quality of life

Posted this on another thread about this, but some religious people are really sick. They are against pulling life support of brain dead people, they should just be stuck in this vegetative state forever,. They would rather see a sick baby with no quality of life suffer immensely by being artificially kept alive than the doctors pulling life support, they would rather see a baby born than a mother die from complications from the pregnancy due to health concerns. THey fight against assisted suicide for terminally ill patients and would rather have them die a slow, painful death where they wither away to bone and in the end ultimately die from overdose of the pain medications anyway

Truly sick people

you really think that this is what this is about? You're naïve pal. That's how they sell it to you sheep, but the bill says nothing about restrictions on the health of the baby you fool!

Tim-

 

[Jezcoe]

That is what the Governor of Virginia seems to be saying, that if the infant is born, the mother can still "have a conversation" with the doctor about, what is by any definition I know of, committing a murder.

But, now, we have States that are actually legalizing killing that life, right up until birth. Is that what the pro abortion people always wanted? Well, you've now got that in this country now.

This is not what the Governor is talking about.

He is explicitly saying that the baby is born nonviable or has deformities that would lead to death.

Put his statements in the context of having a DNR order for a stillborn child and if that child is resuscitated what the next medical steps should be and that also includes palliative care.

These are issues between a family and their doctor and the State has no business sticking it's nose in there to make people who have zero skin in the game feel better about themselves.

 

[Felis Leo]

You act like this is a common occurrence when the VAST MAJORITY (over 98%) of abortions are done before 24 weeks. Go right on ahead and name for us the amount of abortions that happened at the 9 1/2 month mark and why if you are soo concerned with "legalized infanticide". Can you get anymore melodramatic and hyperbolic there? Wait, I'm sure you can.

Let me be clear Praxas. I am not referring to abortion as "legalized infanticide" (though perhaps I should if I am talking about a perfectly healthy fetus at the 9 1/2 month mark). What I am referring to is the right of parents to end the lives of their children post-birth.

To get to your point of the 98% of abortions being prior to the 24-week mark, to say that a morally abhorrent legal right is rarely exercised is no argument for the allowance of that right in the first place. If there was some obscure medieval law on the books that allowed parents to kill their children without legal repercussion up until, say, two years of age, would the fact that the right is rarely exercised by parents be a good justification for that right to remain in place? My question to you, Praxas, is what is your guiding principle as to whether or not human life is worthy of protection by the state? Is there any instance in which you would say that a woman should be refused the right to abort her unborn child if the unborn child is past the viability stage even up until the point of birth? And if you answer in the negative, what is your moral argument against infanticide?

 

[Praxas]

Let me be clear Praxas. I am not referring to abortion as "legalized infanticide" (though perhaps I should if I am talking about a perfectly healthy fetus at the 9 1/2 month mark). What I am referring to is the right of parents to end the lives of their children post-birth.

To get to your point of the 98% of abortions being prior to the 24-week mark, to say that a morally abhorrent legal right is rarely exercised is no argument for the allowance of that right in the first place, Praxas. If there was a law on the books that allowed parents to kill their children up until, say, two years of age, would the fact that the right is rarely exercised by the parents be a good justification for that right to remain in place? My question to you, Praxas, is what is your guiding principle as to whether or not human life is worthy of protection by the state? Is there any instance in which you would say that a woman should be refused the right to abort her unborn child if the unborn child is past the viability stage even up until the point of birth? And if you answer in the negative, what is your moral argument against infanticide?

I look at quality of life versus quantity of life. If I know an infant is going to go through pain and suffering and ultimately die within a few years, I'm sorry I would agree to end the suffering. You are making the assumption that the reason someone is going to give for ending a life is "meh, just because". I look at the reason that is going to be used. You are correct that I don't approve of just ending a life after birth, just because, and I doubt this bill would do something like that either. Also at 9 1/2 weeks, the chances of a fetus surviving without the mother is greatly increased.

 

[Hicup]

I think, politically, the democrats are pulling the wrong horse on this one. I think it's been clear for several decades that American's do not support late term abortions, and this barbaric form of it only affirms that point. Additionally, polls show that this number goes up when pro life, and even pro abortion voters actually see and hear how late term, or even second trimester abortions are performed. Only the insanely partisan, who see and hear how these abortions are done, would not change their minds!

Me? I think the dems, whether consciously or not, are making this an issue for 2020, hoping that this will go to the Supreme Court, (which it will), and the Supreme court will have no choice but to overturn these laws, and then the dems can say, "see look republicans want to reverse Roe v. Wade", but of course the SCOTUS will not overturn RvW, only this ghoulish attempt by democrats to make it legal to kill human babies!~


It's sick!


Tim-

 

[vesper]

you really think that this is what this is about? You're naïve pal. That's how they sell it to you sheep, but the bill says nothing about restrictions on the health of the baby you fool!

Tim-

Gosnell's crimes are being legalized and the left cheers.

It's disgusting. And would it surprise you to learn the Democratic Virginia House of Delegates that would allow the termination of a pregnancy up to 40 weeks old, is also the chief patrons of a bill that would protect the lives of “fall cankerworms” during certain months. Think about that for a minute, a damn worm they want to protect but a baby not so much.

 

[SCrider]

This is not what the Governor is talking about.

He is explicitly saying that the baby is born nonviable or has deformities that would lead to death.

Put his statements in the context of having a DNR order for a stillborn child and if that child is resuscitated what the next medical steps should be and that also includes palliative care.

These are issues between a family and their doctor and the State has no business sticking it's nose in there to make people who have zero skin in the game feel better about themselves.

That's the great thing about these so-called christians. They don't mind lying to further their cause.....

 

[Hicup]

Gosnell's crimes are being legalized and the left cheers.

It's disgusting. And would it surprise you to learn the Democratic Virginia House of Delegates that would allow the termination of a pregnancy up to 40 weeks old, is also the chief patrons of a bill that would protect the lives of “fall cankerworms” during certain months. Think about that for a minute, a damn worm they want to protect but a baby not so much.

I know, look, this is not a winning play for dems, as much as I would love for them to push this politically, I think it's a very big mistake on their part. I think THEY think that the country is far lefter than it really is. It's not...And if I'm a republican running against anyone that supports this bill, I would run adds on just how ghoulish abortion really is, every day, all day! Lefty or not, MOST people would find it disgusting!


Tim-

 

[Hicup]

This is not what the Governor is talking about.

He is explicitly saying that the baby is born nonviable or has deformities that would lead to death.

No, this is how they sell it to people like you that twist into pretzels to try and justify murder to themselves. These kinds of procedures will happen at abortion clinics where the intent is to abort, and practically anything can be "documented" as an excuse to murder that child born.

Put his statements in the context of having a DNR order for a stillborn child and if that child is resuscitated what the next medical steps should be and that also includes palliative care.

These are issues between a family and their doctor and the State has no business sticking it's nose in there to make people who have zero skin in the game feel better about themselves.

The State, is you and me, and this great nation; we have every right to protect those that are unable to protect themselves! IN fact, it is our duty!


Tim-

 

[j brown's body]

Gosnell's crimes are being legalized and the left cheers.

It's disgusting. And would it surprise you to learn the Democratic Virginia House of Delegates that would allow the termination of a pregnancy up to 40 weeks old, is also the chief patrons of a bill that would protect the lives of “fall cankerworms” during certain months. Think about that for a minute, a damn worm they want to protect but a baby not so much.

If abortions are outlawed, there will be more, not less, Gosnells.

 

[Hicup]

That's the great thing about these so-called christians. They don't mind lying to further their cause.....

If you think this is about religion, you're woefully uneducated or hopelessly partisan! You really think this is about religion? How do you explain me then? I'm an atheist. Been that way for 3 decades now, and yet, oh my gosh, I still find that murder is murder, and even more reprehensible when done to those that have no voice!


Tim-

 

[Hicup]

If abortions are outlawed, there will be more, not less, Gosnells.

Except that no one is advocating outlawing abortions. Most people accept the RvW compromise, why mess with it?


Tim-

 

[DarkWizard12]

There is no need for this bill. People should just wait until after the birth, claim religious beliefs, and deny medical assistance to their grown children like many Christian fundamentalists do.

Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

"It's ok to kill your own children because something something christian conservatives are hateful something."