• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Video Shows Unarmed Black Man Pleading With Arms Raised

Vox said:
How do you know that? Have you seen the video of the actual shooting?
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, but everything is often not on video and we must rely on witness statements. It should not up to the person getting beaten or shot to prove that it was not deserved. The silly assumption that police are right using whatever force they deem necessary unless proven otherwise allows them far too much power. If I were to shoot you, then should it be up to you to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you did not deserve it?
 
Originally Posted by Vox
How do you know that? Have you seen the video of the actual shooting?
Click to expand...

Reply:
Believe it or not, but everything is often not on video and we must rely on witness statements. It should not up to the person getting beaten or shot to prove that it was not deserved.
Click to expand...

LOL!

Meaning you haven't seen it and you don't know.

Thanks.

:2wave:
 
Objective Voice said:
Well, this is one time we can honestly say "he really did have his hands up but got shot anyway".

If the Grand Jury doesn't indite in this incident, the Black community in Miami will erupt for sure. This was more than an unfortunate situation. It was an unnecessary situation! All the police had to do was contact the agency he works for and confirm his story then approach safely and render assistance, as necessary. But shoot him? While he's on the ground with his hands up and no weapon in site at all? If anyone should've taken a bullet out of pure uncertainty, it was the autistic patient because he had something in his hands. (I know...a toy truck, but the cops didn't know that until they were told by the therapist.) Why target the person laying on the ground who clearly was defenseless?

(I dare not say, but I think you smart folks can guess the obvious answer for yourselves. ;) )



I want to believe it was as simple as that...just an accident. Maybe it was. I hope it was for the cop's sake and the sake of N. Miami, FL.
Click to expand...

I bet they go for "Rookie cop". "He was testing out new submission targeting protocal where the cop shoots someone in the leg if they arent in DIRECT danger but the dispatch was for something dangerous" "Accidentally shot the wrong guy in the leg to start the arrest protocal when a suicidal perosn has a hostage" And i bet you half the soccerball moms and immigrant hating old men will STILL believe it.
 
Lutherf said:
The report said that the state attorney is investigation and if I was the chief I'd keep my mouth shut too. This looks like it's going to ugly for the department.

I sure as heck didn't see any reason for the response to continue as a felony stop. The one guy was compliant and the other was obviously mentally challenged. I also don't understand why the cops didn't render first aid.

Anyway, since this victim is still alive and unless there's one hell of a good excuse from the PD that guy can start planning his retirement because in this climate that bullet wound is worth at least $5M.
Click to expand...

I think some cops WANT the person to bleed out before they get to the hospital. Less testimony against them and lawsuits.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
What in the **** is this?

They shot the guy on the ground with his hands up?

If anyone would have gotten shot, I would think it would be the autistic man. I would still be a bad shoot. Millions of cops all over the world know how to safely investigate a situation with a mentally incompetent person without resorting to "shoot first, ask questions later," but I wouldn't be surprised if that had happened.

BUT THEY SHOT THE GUY WITH HIS HANDS UP?

And not, like, the moment they saw him with some kind of fear he might react (still a bad shoot, but again, wouldn't be surprising). They shot him after an extended stand-off during which he cooperated fully and explained the situation in full.

I just can't... What the **** is this? And why is the Miami police department not saying anything about this IMMEDIATELY?

How can people be surprised there's so much bad blood against cops when this is the kind of crap some of them do?
Click to expand...

Who knows. Maybe the cop was secretly pissed that this black dude was taunting him with "Hands up! Dont shoot!" and he finally snapped. /sarcasm
 
dirtpoorchris said:
I think some cops WANT the person to bleed out before they get to the hospital. Less testimony against them and lawsuits.
Click to expand...

I doubt that they wanted him to bleed out and, frankly, we don't know the extent of his injury. That being said, when you've got an obviously wounded suspect that's under control and you've checked to make sure he's unarmed it's only right to get him a bandage or something.

There's just not a lot here right now that looks good for these cops.
 
Dude, finger down the side of the trigger housing. Sheesh.

Firearms 101. Especially for automatic rifles.

Not sure what charges to bring, but this guy should not be a cop anymore.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
I bet they go for "Rookie cop". "He was testing out new submission targeting protocal where the cop shoots someone in the leg if they arent in DIRECT danger but the dispatch was for something dangerous" "Accidentally shot the wrong guy in the leg to start the arrest protocal when a suicidal perosn has a hostage" And i bet you half the soccerball moms and immigrant hating old men will STILL believe it.
Click to expand...

Something tells me you might be right. Although I'm a long way from being anti-cop, I do think many in law enforcement get off for their misconduct because their actions can often be justified under any number of procedural grey areas (i.e., resisting arrest, simple assault) or even the "fog of the pursuit" similar to the "fog of war".

I don't discount that police have a very difficult job, but this situation right here...it was easy to fix. Someone just had an itchy trigger finger.
 
Vox said:
Not necessarily.

If a suspect fails to obey instructions and appears to be reaching for a weapon they might be shot and not charged with anything.......especially in this case with an autistic person involved.
Click to expand...

The autistic kid was the suspect not the therapist. You might want to ready the article before you look stupid.
 
Now that it's easy to get things on cell phone cameras there seem to be a lot of "accidents" out there. Makes you wonder what went on and is still going on without cameras.


And no I'm not anti cop as I have a family member in law enforcement. But there seem to be some cops out there that have no business being cops whether it be incompetence, the power going to their heads, or they are scared ****less and make mistakes because of it.
 
This is just unbelievable. I'm glad the guy's not dead this time, but in every other way, this is by far the worst of the police shootings that's happened recently.

Hopefully the community doesn't try to sweep it under the rug and the officer is prosecuted.
 
The cop in this particular incident is an excellent and decorated officer.

The notion that he will be prosecuted is ludicrous.
 
molten_dragon said:
This is just unbelievable. I'm glad the guy's not dead this time, but in every other way, this is by far the worst of the police shootings that's happened recently.

Hopefully the community doesn't try to sweep it under the rug and the officer is prosecuted.
Click to expand...

Additionally I hope the guy wins millions in a lawsuit. Make it really painful for the local government and taxpayers so they make some reforms in how police address the public.
 
Last edited:
Vox said:
The cop in this particular incident is an excellent and decorated officer.

The notion that he will be prosecuted is ludicrous.
Click to expand...

He may have been. He's a screw up now.

If he had been an MP he would have been court martialed and thrown out of the military with a dishonorable discharge.
 
Vox said:
The cop in this particular incident is an excellent and decorated officer.
Click to expand...

The notion that he will be prosecuted is ludicrous.
Click to expand...



He may have done a good job in the past but that doesn't excuse his terrible performance in this incident.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
He may have been. He's a screw up now.

If he had been an MP he would have been court martialed and thrown out of the military with a dishonorable discharge.
Click to expand...

His miss will be explained by the fact that the rifle sight was out of adjustment. That's a mechanical failure that was not his error.

His shot will be explained by the fact that his commander stated on the radio that the man was "loading his gun," and the fact that the suspect made an aggressive move toward the man who had his hands up.

All facts, all relevant......all will exonerate the cop from any blame.
 
Ikari said:
You're right. I love it when the government shoots people needlessly :roll:

Police are government agents, while they may "make mistakes", mistakes which cost the lives and health of the citizenry need to be properly punished and prevented. Being human doesn't excuse shooting people.

But thanks for the ignorant, partisan propaganda. That really helps a debate.
Click to expand...

too stupid to even be Propaganda, nice try.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Additionally I hope the guy wins millions in a lawsuit. Make it really painful for the local government and taxpayers so they make some reforms in how police address the public.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of on the fence about that. The guy deserves money for sure. But the taxpayers who'll end up footing the bill weren't the ones responsible for what happened. I'd be much more satisfied if the officer responsible were held personally liable for any damages awarded.
 
Vox said:
His miss will be explained by the fact that the rifle sight was out of adjustment. That's a mechanical failure that was not his error.

His shot will be explained by the fact that his commander stated on the radio that the man was "loading his gun," and the fact that the suspect made an aggressive move toward the man who had his hands up.

All facts, all relevant......all will exonerate the cop from any blame.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...



You can talk 24/7 but you can't wipe out the fact that a totally innocent man was shot by that cop.
 
shrubnose said:
You can talk 24/7 but you can't wipe out the fact that a totally innocent man was shot by that cop.
Click to expand...

And you can't wipe out the fact that it happened within totally reasonable parameters as pertaining to the officer.

Others will bear the blame in this debacle. The officer's commander has already been suspended WITHOUT pay.
 
Vox said:
And you can't wipe out the fact that it happened within totally reasonable parameters as pertaining to the officer.

Others will bear the blame in this debacle. The officer's commander has already been suspended WITHOUT pay.
Click to expand...
You wrong. There is nothing reasonable in this case, the offcer took very bad decision.
 
NO1 said:
You wrong. There is nothing reasonable in this case, the offcer took very bad decision.
Click to expand...

His miss will be explained by the fact that the rifle sight was out of adjustment. That's a mechanical failure that was not his error.

His shot will be explained by the fact that his commander stated on the radio that the man was "loading his gun," and the fact that the suspect made an aggressive move toward the man who had his hands up.

All facts, all relevant......all will exonerate the cop from any blame.
 
molten_dragon said:
I'm kind of on the fence about that. The guy deserves money for sure. But the taxpayers who'll end up footing the bill weren't the ones responsible for what happened. I'd be much more satisfied if the officer responsible were held personally liable for any damages awarded.
Click to expand...

He got a minor flesh wound and was out of the hospital in a couple of hours. He was quoted in the Media as saying it felt like a mosquito bite.

While his lawyer will try to milk it......they have little to work with unless he fakes a nervous breakdown.

No way could they blame the officer for this. The department was at fault with bad information and a rifle sight that malfunctioned.
 
Vox said:
No way could they blame the officer for this. The department was at fault with bad information and a rifle sight that malfunctioned.
Click to expand...

How many times have you changed your story at this point?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom