• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US shuts down major San Diego port of entry as migrants rush border

Bullseye said:
5k is close to what various local groups have been estimating. That said I don't think the entire crowd rushed the border. There is reportedly a core of agitators and radicals that have been trying to create confrontation.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

Yeah, it's starting to look the way you've described it. 5K held-up in some athletic field of some sort, being provided some form of basic humanitarian aid. 500 of which decided to rush the border.

Forcing the closure of that crossing is not going endear the caravaners to the local population who use that to go back and forth to jobs on the US side then go home to Tijuana.
Click to expand...
That's an interesting point, thanks for making it. I was thinking Trump might get some heat for the lost trade and employment, if he can't figure-out a way to get the crossing open by Monday A.M.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
The only place those exist is in your imagination.
Click to expand...

Not true; Bernie Sanders gets a hard-on just thinking about the Scandinavian Socialist Republics. And at HIS AGE that's quite an accomplishment.


<begin usual Tanngrisnir "you lie" insult fest>
 
ecofarm said:
So you're saying this is because of Tequila.
Click to expand...

I am saying that you are making justifications for illegally entering a country...
 
ecofarm said:
I'm not blaming the US. I'm keeping perspective. A crowd of 500 gets unruly every day in the Western world and we don't mow them down.

No one is getting shot. This isn't Iraq.

Let's keep perspective.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to imply you were blaming the US. I know you better than that. I was speaking for myself in relation to the overall tenor of this thread, not you.

I do, respectfully, maintain that your view here - concert goers vs aliens crossing a border illegally - is overly simplistic.
 
Last edited:
Chomsky said:
Given even the U.S.'s failure to maintain a border, I'm not sure Mexico has the ability to do so either. I'm all for secure borders, but I'm not sure Mexico has that capability.
Click to expand...
Me, neither. It's a dangerous and volatile situation.
 
ecofarm said:
Yes, obviously. You took the "dog bite man" saying to "dog must be put down", which is not part of the saying.

Now, why did you completely leave the context of the saying (that which is common, not that which bites) to venture into "put them down" territory?

When someone says, "news of shoplifting at Walmart is man bites dog", do you suggest we kill shoplifters? See how you left context?

Now, there's another way you left context. When you suggest the dog be put down, even claiming that the dog "IS put down usually", you forget we're talking about 500 largely innocent people. We're not talking about a dog that bit someone. That's just a saying. And you want to "put them down", or at least suggest it would be the logical thing to do.


So...

1. The saying is not actually concerning a dog, it's concerning a common occurrence. It needn't be a dog, it could be anything.

2. The saying does not include, "and the dog was put down because that's what we usually do".

3. We do not usually "put down" unruly crowds.


Your rambling is obtuse and idiotic hate. Nothing more.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of the saying "that which is common, not that which bites". :shrug: And "news of shoplifting at Walmart is man bites dog" sounds awfully silly to me. Incongruous.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I didn't mean to imply you were blaming the US. I know you better than that. I was speaking for myself in relation to the overall tenor of this thread, not you.

I do, respectfully, maintain that your view here - concert goers vs aliens crossing a border illegally - is over simplistic.
Click to expand...

Well, if you like, we could lean the other way... "invaders are over-running the fortifications, mow them down and fix bayonets!"

Because that's the tone of the thread I have a problem with. People are always gonna blame the US. But pretending a gaggle of people in line - who are trying to do things the right way - becoming unruly because the procedures are changing are some kind of threat is hateful.
 
Chomsky said:
Thanks.

Yeah, it's starting to look the way you've described it. 5K held-up in some athletic field of some sort, being provided some form of basic humanitarian aid. 500 of which decided to rush the border.

That's an interesting point, thanks for making it. I was thinking Trump might get some heat for the lost trade and employment, if he can't figure-out a way to get the crossing open by Monday A.M.
Click to expand...
And, I forgot to mention that there are several malls and outlet centers close to the crossing that cater to cross-border shoppers. AND this is one of the busiest shopping days of the weekend. The fecal matter is definitely about to hit the rotating ventilation device. :hitsfan:
 
ecofarm said:
Well, if you like, we could lean the other way... "invaders are over-running the fortifications, mow them down and fix bayonets!"

Because that's the tone of the thread I have a problem with. People are always gonna blame the US. But pretending a gaggle of people in line - who are trying to do things the right way - becoming unruly because the procedures are changing are some kind of threat is hateful.
Click to expand...

No one, at least not me or the US government at this point, are advocating for "mow them down and fix bayonets." However, there are many in this thread and in the US government on the left that are, and have advocated, for "let them all in and then let them all loose" which is tantamount (IMHO) to open borders. Closing the border is not comparable to killing people, or even arresting people for rioting. It's simply not dealing with a problem that at this point is not our problem; it's the problem of the Mexican Government. If we allow them to cross over the border, then it's the problem of the US tax payer. With that, I have a problem. The US was allowing any and all that wanted to claim asylum to do so in a manner that was controlled, measured, and methodical.

Bum rushing the border to circumvent US law is not a way to make the average US citizen feel empathy for you (you being the aliens, not you).
 
Beaudreaux said:
Bum rushing the border to circumvent US law is not a way to make the average US citizen feel empathy for you (you being the aliens, not you).
Click to expand...

And it's not a threat. So let's not suffer any violence fantasies.
 
Chomsky said:
Source: (CNN) US shuts down major San Diego port of entry as migrants rush border

It's currently a fast developing story, with only partial context.

From on-air reports, it seems the normal processing of asylum-seekers at this crossing is 60-100 per day. There is a tightly-packed migrant protest camp of 5,000 just across the border in Mexico, courtesy of the Mexican government and humane organizations. Just moments ago they eschewed the regular queue on the bridge to the border crossing, instead moving ad hoc to the end of the Mexican border, not able to reach the U.S. side (as of this moment).

In response the administration shut-down all crossings at this border, including both pedestrian and vehicular traffic in both directions (to & fro).

My comment on this? Marone! It's going to be a helluva' post holiday-weekend Monday morning commute! :doh

Edit: There seems to be some discrepancy over the size of this group, with MSNBC reporting a nearby migrant camp of 5K, and CNN reporting a group of 500 going to the border. I'm not sure if these two reports are necessarily exclusive to each other, but wanted to reflect this on-air development in my post.
Click to expand...

Seems you and others on DP didn't know this was going to happen. Probably because the anti-Trump multimedia echo chamber has deliberately ignored the ongoing developments.

The fact is, this action by the migrants was preplanned by the organizers of the caravans.

The non-violent caravan of refugees seeking asylum that has coincidentally caused a huge strain on the city of Tijuana, prompting a “humanitarian crisis” and call for aid from the U.N., is also now planning, or parts of the group are planning, to stamped the border cross en masse.
That’s not according to some right wing paranoia group, but to a left-wing aid group there to help the caravan achieve their goal of reaching the U.S.
Sergio Tamai, one of the founders of ‘Angels without Borders’ who, if you can’t tell by the name, want all those in the caravan to come over or through the wall, told San Diego’s Telemundo station that members of the caravan may be planning to … come over or through the wall, as a matter of fact.
“They have that intention,” he said, referring to the intent to come in a huge mass assault. “I believe that thousands could make that jump.”


Jorge Molina, a Honduran migrant, also spoke to the Telemundo station, and said that “some want to jump over the wall, others to go another way, and others want to wait and see what kind of response they get.”

https://therightscoop.com/migrant-c...n-stampede-at-border-crossing-says-aid-group/
Click to expand...

Here's another article: https://www.theepochtimes.com/honduran-migrant-20000-plan-to-march-across-border_2723034.html

So...it's a safe bet that the Mexican and US LE were aware this was going to happen ahead of time, too. They certainly seemed to be prepared.
 
Rexedgar said:
Tear gas has been fired from the US side........
Click to expand...

Tell me those tear gas shells did not fly across the border.

Because if they did, this just became an international incident far, far more serious than a few hundred people clamoring to get into the US.
 
ecofarm said:
And it's not a threat. So let's not suffer any violence fantasies.
Click to expand...

Although it is a threat, it is not at this time a violent threat, so in essence, I agree with your basic position. As for not suffering fantasies, the reality of the situation will dictate with time, what is fantasy and what is not, and until then I don't think we should suffer fantasies of Utopian origin nor of violent origin, yet in place we should strive for a cautious but peaceful shepherding of our border. In the mean time, as I said, I agree with your basic position.
 
Phys251 said:
Tell me those tear gas shells did not fly across the border.

Because if they did, this just became an international incident far, far more serious than a few hundred people clamoring to get into the US.
Click to expand...

Nah. Cops teargas college students at campus events. We have agreements with Mexico about cross-border enforcement.

It's still just an unruly crowd, complaining about changes, going nowhere.
 
Chomsky said:
Source: (CNN) US shuts down major San Diego port of entry as migrants rush border

It's currently a fast developing story, with only partial context.

From on-air reports, it seems the normal processing of asylum-seekers at this crossing is 60-100 per day. There is a tightly-packed migrant protest camp of 5,000 just across the border in Mexico, courtesy of the Mexican government and humane organizations. Just moments ago they eschewed the regular queue on the bridge to the border crossing, instead moving ad hoc to the end of the Mexican border, not able to reach the U.S. side (as of this moment).

In response the administration shut-down all crossings at this border, including both pedestrian and vehicular traffic in both directions (to & fro).

My comment on this? Marone! It's going to be a helluva' post holiday-weekend Monday morning commute! :doh

Edit: There seems to be some discrepancy over the size of this group, with MSNBC reporting a nearby migrant camp of 5K, and CNN reporting a group of 500 going to the border. I'm not sure if these two reports are necessarily exclusive to each other, but wanted to reflect this on-air development in my post.
Click to expand...

So this includes US citizens. Guess Trump really did close the border without congressional approval. Did he really sign the secret E.O. He was talking about earlier??? This is nuts.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Although it is a threat, it is not at this time a violent threat, so in essence, I agree with your basic position.
Click to expand...

My position is we don't fantasize about violence against basically innocent crowds. We keep perspective and understand this happens every day and no one gets shot.

As for not suffering fantasies, the reality of the situation will dictate with time, what is fantasy and what is not, and until then I don't think we should suffer fantasies of Utopian origin nor of violent origin, yet in place we should strive for a cautious but peaceful shepherding of our border. In the mean time, as I said, I agree with your basic position.
Click to expand...

Fantasies of tomorrow don't matter. I'm concerned with what is in essence a line of concert goers rushing the gates being framed as threats worthy of killing. Why?



As long as we're not suffering that, you can have at the US-haters. I'm in no mood for them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom