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US military in Africa

OldFatGuy

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Some might say this should be posted in the military affairs section, but this is as much political as it is military. The missions mentioned in this article are not the only ongoing American military missions in Africa.

In my mind, this drives along a very fine line of need for secrecy with issues of transparency to the American Public. For the safety of our troops, the prior is essential, yet I believe this is unprecedented.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...BB-11-7&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

It's an interesting read. Opinions will be varied and different.
 

DaveFagan

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Some might say this should be posted in the military affairs section, but this is as much political as it is military. The missions mentioned in this article are not the only ongoing American military missions in Africa.

In my mind, this drives along a very fine line of need for secrecy with issues of transparency to the American Public. For the safety of our troops, the prior is essential, yet I believe this is unprecedented.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...BB-11-7&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

It's an interesting read. Opinions will be varied and different.

Sounds to me like we're attempting to create Police States in the African Nations we are occupying. It's always easier to deal directly with a dictator than a democracy, eh?
/
 

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Sounds to me like we're attempting to create Police States in the African Nations we are occupying. It's always easier to deal directly with a dictator than a democracy, eh?
/

Which African Nations is the US Military occupying?
 

ttwtt78640

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Some might say this should be posted in the military affairs section, but this is as much political as it is military. The missions mentioned in this article are not the only ongoing American military missions in Africa.

In my mind, this drives along a very fine line of need for secrecy with issues of transparency to the American Public. For the safety of our troops, the prior is essential, yet I believe this is unprecedented.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...BB-11-7&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

It's an interesting read. Opinions will be varied and different.

Adding to a never ending 'war on terror', like the never ending 'war on drugs', is hard to square as necessary for the defense of the US homeland. It may enhance US overseas business interests, or help keep those 'in charge' of a (friendly?) foreign nation from losing power, but it is quite a stretch to say that it is necessary for our national defense. If nation X attacks the US or supports/harbors those that do so (like Iran?) then military action may be warranted but simply asserting that unspecified 'classified' reasons exist to believe that 'instability' in region (nation?) X means that our military must 'nip it in the bud' is a step too far, IMHO.
 

ttwtt78640

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Which African Nations is the US Military occupying?

None, which is the problem - that is mission impossible for any small military force. When the mission is to deal with 'classified problems' inside 'certain parts of' region/nation X (Afghanistan?) then there is no way to determine, much less achieve, success (victory?). When the most powerful and expensive military on the planet cannot defeat in over a decade an enemy that lacks air power, naval power and has a rag tag, at best, army then a very poor 'battle plan' has been used.
 

OldFatGuy

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Sounds to me like we're attempting to create Police States in the African Nations we are occupying. It's always easier to deal directly with a dictator than a democracy, eh?
/

We are not occupying any African nations. We are there by invitation as advisors and co-pursuers of international networks. Your vision of African sophistication is colored by your politics, not actuality.
 

OldFatGuy

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Adding to a never ending 'war on terror', like the never ending 'war on drugs', is hard to square as necessary for the defense of the US homeland. It may enhance US overseas business interests, or help keep those 'in charge' of a (friendly?) foreign nation from losing power, but it is quite a stretch to say that it is necessary for our national defense. If nation X attacks the US or supports/harbors those that do so (like Iran?) then military action may be warranted but simply asserting that unspecified 'classified' reasons exist to believe that 'instability' in region (nation?) X means that our military must 'nip it in the bud' is a step too far, IMHO.

This is what was said about Afghanistan prior to 9/11. With a stateless war on our hands, all previous rules of engagement and determinations of who is dangerous are out the window for understanding threat to our security as a nation. Our military has been prepared to win a repeat of WWII, but this is a different animal. Iran is a sideshow, best resolved with economic warfare to defeat the ruling class by the actions of its people in response to what they are not enjoying.
 

OldFatGuy

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None, which is the problem - that is mission impossible for any small military force. When the mission is to deal with 'classified problems' inside 'certain parts of' region/nation X (Afghanistan?) then there is no way to determine, much less achieve, success (victory?). When the most powerful and expensive military on the planet cannot defeat in over a decade an enemy that lacks air power, naval power and has a rag tag, at best, army then a very poor 'battle plan' has been used.

My only difference of thought is to replace "very poor" with inappropriate. We still need to learn more about our stateless enemy to determine appropriate actions.
 

DaveFagan

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Which African Nations is the US Military occupying?

The USA has 10,000 military bases in 155 Nations. Pick one.
/
 

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The USA has 10,000 military bases in 155 Nations. Pick one.
/

A military base in a country is not the same as "occupying".....Germany had a fighter training base in New Mexico for 20 years, and many other Nations have had bases in the US.....is the US "occupied"?

What African Nation are we "occupying"?
 

DaveFagan

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This is what was said about Afghanistan prior to 9/11. With a stateless war on our hands, all previous rules of engagement and determinations of who is dangerous are out the window for understanding threat to our security as a nation. Our military has been prepared to win a repeat of WWII, but this is a different animal. Iran is a sideshow, best resolved with economic warfare to defeat the ruling class by the actions of its people in response to what they are not enjoying.

Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc. demonstrate the excellent Marketing Arm of the MIC. If you want those weapons businesses to boom, you've got to create markets and that is the very exxence of Capitalism/Corporatism. When your currency is not backed by something of intrinsic value, Nations back it with their Military. You mimic great fluency with the propaganda agenda of the NeoCons and MIC and Banks that profit handsomely from wars and need to keep the populace completely misinformed. As regards Iran, I have never met an Iranian that I liked, but they have not invaded anyone, especially Lebanon, Syria or Yemen. Smoke and mirrors from your propaganda minders.
/
 

DaveFagan

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A military base in a country is not the same as "occupying".....Germany had a fighter training base in New Mexico for 20 years, and many other Nations have had bases in the US.....is the US "occupied"?

What African Nation are we "occupying"?

Lessee now. There's OIL in Libya, Syria, Sudan, Nigeria, etc. and you can be sure we're occuping those Nations. Diamonds, minerals, etc and you can be sure we're occupying those. Each Nation will get a USA supported dictator to request USA military to hep' him out, don't ya' know, and help him rape the resources of that Nation, all very proper and legal on paper. Sorta' like our deal with those scumbags from Saudi Arabia and we help them kill helpless Yemenis, Syrians, Libyans, etc. We just so good-hearted, don't ya' know, or don't want to know?
/
 

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Lessee now. There's OIL in Libya, Syria, Sudan, Nigeria, etc. and you can be sure we're occuping those Nations. Diamonds, minerals, etc and you can be sure we're occupying those. Each Nation will get a USA supported dictator to request USA military to hep' him out, don't ya' know, and help him rape the resources of that Nation, all very proper and legal on paper. Sorta' like our deal with those scumbags from Saudi Arabia and we help them kill helpless Yemenis, Syrians, Libyans, etc. We just so good-hearted, don't ya' know, or don't want to know?
/

You didn't answer the question....which African Nation are we occupying?

We have a presence all over the world.....again, not the same as an occupation.
 

Tom Horn

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Some might say this should be posted in the military affairs section, but this is as much political as it is military. The missions mentioned in this article are not the only ongoing American military missions in Africa.

In my mind, this drives along a very fine line of need for secrecy with issues of transparency to the American Public. For the safety of our troops, the prior is essential, yet I believe this is unprecedented.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...BB-11-7&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

It's an interesting read. Opinions will be varied and different.
ThankYou for posting this. I was hoping President Trump had a decent response to Marawi and what could happen to other hot spots like it.
 

DaveFagan

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You didn't answer the question....which African Nation are we occupying?

We have a presence all over the world.....again, not the same as an occupation.

Clue: WWII has been over since 1945 and we still occupy Germany. Have you noticed any USA activity in Libya? Have you noticed any USA activity in Syria? Wait, wait, wait, it's coming to me now. An epiphany, don't ya' know? We jus' heppin' 'em out by bringing chaos, poverty, destruction, and death to those overpopulated sh**hole Nations. We be the good guys????
/
 

ttwtt78640

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This is what was said about Afghanistan prior to 9/11. With a stateless war on our hands, all previous rules of engagement and determinations of who is dangerous are out the window for understanding threat to our security as a nation. Our military has been prepared to win a repeat of WWII, but this is a different animal. Iran is a sideshow, best resolved with economic warfare to defeat the ruling class by the actions of its people in response to what they are not enjoying.

If a defeating "state sponsor of terrorism" is not a suitable military mission then what is?
 

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Clue: WWII has been over since 1945 and we still occupy Germany. Have you noticed any USA activity in Libya? Have you noticed any USA activity in Syria? Wait, wait, wait, it's coming to me now. An epiphany, don't ya' know? We jus' heppin' 'em out by bringing chaos, poverty, destruction, and death to those overpopulated sh**hole Nations. We be the good guys????
/

You appear to be confused about a great many things; let me assist.

Syria is not a part of Africa, neither is Yemen.

Occupation of Germany ended in 1955 when control of the Nation was returned to German civilians....our presence there afterwards and in other NATO nations was a deterrent to the East; but you already know this.

Occupation is defined as is effective provisional control[1] of a certain power over a territory which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity, without the volition of the actual sovereign.[2][3][4] The intended temporary nature of occupation, when no claim for permanent sovereignty is made by the occupying entity, distinguishes occupation from annexation.[2][5]

But, you know this as well I think...be we good or bad, please try to keep a lid on the hyperbole and rhetoric; it erodes your credibility.
 

ttwtt78640

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My only difference of thought is to replace "very poor" with inappropriate. We still need to learn more about our stateless enemy to determine appropriate actions.

If your only tool is a hammer then you must address all problems as if they were nails.
 

OldFatGuy

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Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, etc. demonstrate the excellent Marketing Arm of the MIC. If you want those weapons businesses to boom, you've got to create markets and that is the very exxence of Capitalism/Corporatism. When your currency is not backed by something of intrinsic value, Nations back it with their Military. You mimic great fluency with the propaganda agenda of the NeoCons and MIC and Banks that profit handsomely from wars and need to keep the populace completely misinformed. As regards Iran, I have never met an Iranian that I liked, but they have not invaded anyone, especially Lebanon, Syria or Yemen. Smoke and mirrors from your propaganda minders.
/

Yadda yadda Load of crap
 

OldFatGuy

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Lessee now. There's OIL in Libya, Syria, Sudan, Nigeria, etc. and you can be sure we're occuping those Nations. Diamonds, minerals, etc and you can be sure we're occupying those. Each Nation will get a USA supported dictator to request USA military to hep' him out, don't ya' know, and help him rape the resources of that Nation, all very proper and legal on paper. Sorta' like our deal with those scumbags from Saudi Arabia and we help them kill helpless Yemenis, Syrians, Libyans, etc. We just so good-hearted, don't ya' know, or don't want to know?
/

The American Embassy remains closed in Lybia, the American military presence is a squad of drone deployers for surveillance only, working with the Lybian military. We have no presence in Syria or Sudan, other than support for Kurdish rebels in Syria. The Sudan enjoys a minor CIA surveillance team. 120 training troops in Nigeria working with the Nigerian armed forces.

You are a liar.
 

OldFatGuy

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Clue: WWII has been over since 1945 and we still occupy Germany. Have you noticed any USA activity in Libya? Have you noticed any USA activity in Syria? Wait, wait, wait, it's coming to me now. An epiphany, don't ya' know? We jus' heppin' 'em out by bringing chaos, poverty, destruction, and death to those overpopulated sh**hole Nations. We be the good guys????
/

Merkel almost fainted when Trump said he would close American bases in Germany. Such an action would destroy local economies.
 

OldFatGuy

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If a defeating "state sponsor of terrorism" is not a suitable military mission then what is?

I don't know. I wish I were smart enough to know or devise a better solution. Iran is a state that promotes terrorism, yet we don't commit our military forces to bring about change. Instead we are relying on the potential success of economic sanctions to force change. It is the smarter move, but takes more patience.
 

OldFatGuy

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If your only tool is a hammer then you must address all problems as if they were nails.

The blind man picked up the hammer and saw. Some problems offer no resolutions other than complete and total annihilation. Is this a path for a moral America?
 

ttwtt78640

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I don't know. I wish I were smart enough to know or devise a better solution. Iran is a state that promotes terrorism, yet we don't commit our military forces to bring about change. Instead we are relying on the potential success of economic sanctions to force change. It is the smarter move, but takes more patience.

It takes the cooperation of (all?) other nations which we don't have unless we ignore other "evils" to get it. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
 
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