US military in Africa

[ttwtt78640]

The blind man picked up the hammer and saw. Some problems offer no resolutions other than complete and total annihilation. Is this a path for a moral America?

Is weakening a nation to the point that they will align with another (any other?) superpower really working? See DPRK or Syria.

 

[chuckiechan]

Some might say this should be posted in the military affairs section, but this is as much political as it is military. The missions mentioned in this article are not the only ongoing American military missions in Africa.

In my mind, this drives along a very fine line of need for secrecy with issues of transparency to the American Public. For the safety of our troops, the prior is essential, yet I believe this is unprecedented.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...BB-11-7&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

It's an interesting read. Opinions will be varied and different.

As stated in the article, the US is joining in the war against terror in Africa. Not to mention pushing back on Chinas attempts to gain influence. In a nut shell, Islam does not support a representative governmental system, and is working with Islamic converts in fringe areas to topple those efforts. Obviously its in the US’s interest to have US friendly governments. So we have “hard power vs hard power” - ISIS and affiliates vs USA.

China is also using it’s investment carrot to attract friends, even though the carrot becomes a stick when the companies cant pay the bills. China then tends to militarize the “forclosed” property. The USA is trying to prevent that. The US is at a disadvantage here, because of our views on bribes, child labor, and slave labor. China has no such qualms, so here we have “soft power vs soft power”.

These are battles worth fighting. Partly because we dont want China fighting and creating a cadre of battle-experienced officers and NCO’s., and partly because we dont want an Islamized Africa, and partly because we need to push back against Chinas “dependent nation” stragety.

 

[DaveFagan]

I don't know. I wish I were smart enough to know or devise a better solution. Iran is a state that promotes terrorism, yet we don't commit our military forces to bring about change. Instead we are relying on the potential success of economic sanctions to force change. It is the smarter move, but takes more patience.

I would like some proof of this Iranian promotion of terrorism. Not CIA heresay. Not think tank propaganda. Not AIPAC spnosored diatribe. Not Saudi invective. PROOF.
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[FreeWits]

Some might say this should be posted in the military affairs section, but this is as much political as it is military. The missions mentioned in this article are not the only ongoing American military missions in Africa.

In my mind, this drives along a very fine line of need for secrecy with issues of transparency to the American Public. For the safety of our troops, the prior is essential, yet I believe this is unprecedented.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...BB-11-7&utm_term=Editorial - Early Bird Brief

It's an interesting read. Opinions will be varied and different.

I didn't really find there to be much substance outside of the obvious. Of course we have military operations going on in Africa.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I didn't really find there to be much substance outside of the obvious. Of course we have military operations going on in Africa.

We have a lot more going on in Central and northern South America.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I would like some proof of this Iranian promotion of terrorism. Not CIA heresay. Not think tank propaganda. Not AIPAC spnosored diatribe. Not Saudi invective. PROOF.
/

Fortunately, no one cares what you want, and the rest of us aren't all blind. I remember the good old Khomeini first hand, preaching in southern France. Every other word kill, destroy, bomb, stab, shoot the unbelievers they are all from Satan. Of course he was one of Satan's minions and may he rot in hell for eternity. Iran is his legacy, I'm beginning to wonder, is it also yours?

 

[OldFatGuy]

As stated in the article, the US is joining in the war against terror in Africa. Not to mention pushing back on Chinas attempts to gain influence. In a nut shell, Islam does not support a representative governmental system, and is working with Islamic converts in fringe areas to topple those efforts. Obviously its in the US’s interest to have US friendly governments. So we have “hard power vs hard power” - ISIS and affiliates vs USA.

China is also using it’s investment carrot to attract friends, even though the carrot becomes a stick when the companies cant pay the bills. China then tends to militarize the “forclosed” property. The USA is trying to prevent that. The US is at a disadvantage here, because of our views on bribes, child labor, and slave labor. China has no such qualms, so here we have “soft power vs soft power”.

These are battles worth fighting. Partly because we dont want China fighting and creating a cadre of battle-experienced officers and NCO’s., and partly because we dont want an Islamized Africa, and partly because we need to push back against Chinas “dependent nation” stragety.

Never forget China has its own islamic problems, separatists China will never tolerate. China is no one's boogey man. It seeks and needs resources and is doing no worse than we are. I'd rather have them as an ally than a political opportunist's moment of fear mongering. 85% of American debt is held by Americans. China's trade deficit is tempered by the following:

Chinese population: 1,416,924,783
Middle class: about 300k, the remainder living below the poverty line
only 82.6 million Communists registered and 30-40 mil Christians, 1.8 mil muslims.

Like RINO's, how many communist in name only?

Who's on China's dragon tail? India.

Both nations want an American ally, both are cozying up with Israel.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I did not read the article but this is something that never gets talked about here at DP, and it should be. The way that I understand the situation is that China is making a big push to secure the resources of Africa for themselves and their allies, they are using investments and bribes and persuasion to tie Africa to China and their friends over the long haul. America is unwilling to put up the money for a bidding war, so we are trying to build alliances with our military that will pay off in resisting the Chinese effort to wall off African raw materials to the West..

I predict a win for the New Chinese Empire.

 

[Tom Horn]

I did not read the article but this is something that never gets talked about here at DP, and it should be. The way that I understand the situation is that China is making a big push to secure the resources of Africa for themselves and their allies, they are using investments and bribes and persuasion to tie Africa to China and their friends over the long haul. America is unwilling to put up the money for a bidding war, so we are trying to build alliances with our military that will pay off in resisting the Chinese effort to wall off African raw materials to the West..

I predict a win for the New Chinese Empire.

I don’t. Corporate financial officers are still getting their companies fined for giving bribes. If you really feel the way you do, read and follow Savanna Petroleum and Nostra Terra about their partnerships with the Chinese. In fact, add horizon oil to that mix. I see nowhere where the Chinese are following through with their legal contracts.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I don’t. Corporate financial officers are still getting their companies fined for giving bribes. If you really feel the way you do, read and follow Savanna Petroleum and Nostra Terra about their partnerships with the Chinese. In fact, add horizon oil to that mix. I see nowhere where the Chinese are following through with their legal contracts.

The Chinese do need to keep their word most of the time for this gambit to work, but I dont know that they are not or will not. The usual claim for why the Chinese will fail is because they are not doing smart deals, and thus they promise more than they can deliver...that they are bad buyers in effect....like how they bought so much in America years ago and so much of that never worked over the long haul because they over paid.

They have a lot more practice now, they should do better now.

 

[chuckiechan]

I did not read the article but this is something that never gets talked about here at DP, and it should be. The way that I understand the situation is that China is making a big push to secure the resources of Africa for themselves and their allies, they are using investments and bribes and persuasion to tie Africa to China and their friends over the long haul. America is unwilling to put up the money for a bidding war, so we are trying to build alliances with our military that will pay off in resisting the Chinese effort to wall off African raw materials to the West..

I predict a win for the New Chinese Empire.

Once Trump hangs up his spurs, China wins. At least that is what the mutinational companies will be hoping so they can get back to lower prices. The eliite professional politicians are our biggest enemy and the “world’s best friend”.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Once Trump hangs up his spurs, China wins. At least that is what the mutinational companies will be hoping so they can get back to lower prices. The eliite professional politicians are our biggest enemy and the “world’s best friend”.

You seem to miss that according to the Chinese model China has colonies who will sell only to them, they dont believe in a global free market of resources, they dont believe that this is the best thing for C hina so they have no intent on operating that way. Thus as China gains power the rest of us will increasingly be locked out of the raw materials that we need, we will have to go hat in hand to the Chinese, and they will demand more than money in return for what we want/need.

This is intended to be a strangulation move.

 

[chuckiechan]

You seem to miss that according to the Chinese model China has colonies who will sell only to them, they dont believe in a global free market of resources, they dont believe that this is the best thing for C hina so they have no intent on operating that way. Thus as China gains power the rest of us will increasingly be locked out of the raw materials that we need, we will have to go hat in hand to the Chinese, and they will demand more than money in return for what we want/need.

This is intended to be a strangulation move.

The more we buy from them the poorer we get.

 

[DaveFagan]

The more we buy from them the poorer we get.

Misguided and ignorant USA policy has caused the Chinese activities. We are shooting ourselves in the foot, maybe both feet. The USA always attempts to monopolize natural resources and economic institutions to USA advantage. Keeping in mind that the USA has "interests, not friends," (Kissinger) and that policy often bites us. The Chinese and, for that matter, the Russians, attempt mutually advantageous endeavors. Neither are saints, but the USA hamhanded hegemony has soiled our reputation, and deservedly so.
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[Bullseye]

Misguided and ignorant USA policy has caused the Chinese activities. We are shooting ourselves in the foot, maybe both feet. The USA always attempts to monopolize natural resources and economic institutions to USA advantage. Keeping in mind that the USA has "interests, not friends," (Kissinger) and that policy often bites us. The Chinese and, for that matter, the Russians, attempt mutually advantageous endeavors. Neither are saints, but the USA hamhanded hegemony has soiled our reputation, and deservedly so.
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Gee, what a surprise! The USA working to make things better for the USA!

 

[Rexedgar]

The more we buy from them the poorer we get.

Where do you shop?

 

[Hawkeye10]

Misguided and ignorant USA policy has caused the Chinese activities. We are shooting ourselves in the foot, maybe both feet. The USA always attempts to monopolize natural resources and economic institutions to USA advantage. Keeping in mind that the USA has "interests, not friends," (Kissinger) and that policy often bites us. The Chinese and, for that matter, the Russians, attempt mutually advantageous endeavors. Neither are saints, but the USA hamhanded hegemony has soiled our reputation, and deservedly so.
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Starting with "You can have almost all of the advantages of being a Global Power but you dont have to follow the rules the rest of us do, because we figure that you will come around one day".

We desperately wanted to bring China into modernity, and so we looked the other way.

Having never adopted the rules China has decided it will do what it wants.

We were naive.

 

[DaveFagan]

Starting with "You can have almost all of the advantages of being a Global Power but you dont have to follow the rules the rest of us do, because we figure that you will come around one day".

We desperately wanted to bring China into modernity, and so we looked the other way.

Having never adopted the rules China has decided it will do what it wants.

We were naive.

You are assuming China and the rest of the World should operate by OUR rules. Who made us boss? Perhaps I missed that election. Hegemony. Does that sound familiar. These Nations are developing alternative systems of government and there's no reason to think they might not do a good job at it. I'm somewhat jaded by CORORATISM, USA style. I feel we are on the way to becoming a fascist police state run by Oligarchs and large MultiNational Corporations.
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[Hawkeye10]

You are assuming China and the rest of the World should operate by OUR rules. Who made us boss? Perhaps I missed that election. Hegemony. Does that sound familiar. These Nations are developing alternative systems of government and there's no reason to think they might not do a good job at it. I'm somewhat jaded by CORORATISM, USA style. I feel we are on the way to becoming a fascist police state run by Oligarchs and large MultiNational Corporations.
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I am assuming noting, I am remembering how we got told that everyone understands that China was joining on ongoing concern, and that everyone to include China understood that there are established rules and that everyone needs to play by them.....China was being given time to get with the program, out of compassion.....because everyone wanted China to be successful, but that they needed a little help getting there....they needed some leniency.

China had other ideas.

The American elite who decided this, told us this anyways either lied to us or they were deeply incompetent (perhaps both)...this is a prime example of why America is in such big trouble now, in fact all of the West is....we largely did it to ourselves.